Arrowverse/CW DC news - Amell & more set for Flash season 9

[Metallo]

I remember when Neelix literally died and was brought back a day later and they did a great episode about it. Then they forgot about it the next week. Voyager had a ton of potential and characters with great potential but it was wasted. Even the actors spoke out against it.

Enterprises biggest flaw it’s first two seasons was being voyager 2.0. It was shameless. Mayweather was another Kim, Phlox was a Doctor/Neelix hybrid, Tpol was Seven. They even tried to recreate the trinity from tos. It was business as usual when it should have taken advantage of being a prequel and explored how the trek universe came to be. Season 4 fixed all that but by then it was too late.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 20, 2018 11:52:55 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I remember when Neelix literally died and was brought back a day later and they did a great episode about it. Then they forgot about it the next week. Voyager had a ton of potential and characters with great potential but it was wasted. Even the actors spoke out against it.

Enterprises biggest flaw it’s first two seasons was being voyager 2.0. It was shameless. Mayweather was another Kim, Phlox was a Doctor/Neelix hybrid, Tpol was Seven. They even tried to recreate the trinity from tos. It was business as usual when it should have taken advantage of being a prequel and explored how the trek universe came to be. Season 4 fixed all that but by then it was too late.

I thought Season 3 was a great turnaround too, though. Enterprise season 1 and 2 were a giant slog under Braga- I was amazed at how much Coto was able to 'save' the show creatively. It's just a pity he wasn't given the reins earlier on.

[Metallo]

Season 3 was an improvement but I thought the 9/11 commentary was a little too on the nose and they never really resolved the temporal Cold War storyline. 4 was where the show really found it’s voicd imo. I can watch almost any episode from that season and love it.

Except the series finale. F*ck Bragga. He let his ego get in the way and was too clever for his own good. If it had to have the tng cast involved it should have been set on the enterprise e or under rikers uss titan. Trying to tie it onto a tng episode was a farce. It looked ridiculous.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 20, 2018 13:37:39 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Season 3 was an improvement but I thought the 9/11 commentary was a little too on the nose and they never really resolved the temporal Cold War storyline. 4 was where the show really found it’s voicd imo. I can watch almost any episode from that season and love it.

Except the series finale. F*ck Bragga. He let his ego get in the way and was too clever for his own good. If it had to have the tng cast involved it should have been set on the enterprise e or under rikers uss titan. Trying to tie it onto a tng episode was a farce. It looked ridiculous.

I agree that Season 4 (except for the finale) feels like where the show should have been from the start. Manny Coto was maybe the only REAL fan of the OST towards the top, and a great writer as well- so it's incredibly sad that he didn't get the fifth season he was hoping for.

Still haven't watched "Discovery" yet, despite some friends saying good things about it. Still pissed at the Bryan Fuller firing.

[Metallo]

Discovery will never get my money. It was a bait and switch and they continue to lie to their audience about the nature of the show. If they were honest I think people could respect them more.

Trek started to decline when Rick Berman became slavish to the older out of touch Roddenberrys idea of what Trek should be instead of what tos was and and made it more and more bland and generic so the masses would tune in. Couldn’t be too controversial and couldn’t be too colorful either.

I hated the 09 movie but it worked because it brought back the fun of the original series.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 21, 2018 18:27:43 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Discovery will never get my money. It was a bait and switch and they continue to lie to their audience about the nature of the show. If they were honest I think people could respect them more.

Trek started to decline when Rick Berman became slavish to the older out of touch Roddenberrys idea of what Trek should be instead of what tos was and and made it more and more bland and generic so the masses would tune in. Couldn’t be too controversial and couldn’t be too colorful either.

I hated the 09 movie but it worked because it brought back the fun of the original series.

I really enjoyed the 09 movie up to a point - to my surprise- as a starting point... but the sequel just destroyed all that goodwill. From the horrible 'new' look of the Klingons to the militaristic Federation to the misguided reboot of Khan. The third one was better than the second one- but the problem (imo) is that we still haven't had enough scenes to 'bond' enough with these SPECIFIC versions of the characters & was hoping we would have had scenes to feel more with them, before diving into copying (badly) Trek 2.

I can sort of respect what Berman did- in trying to stick to Roddenberry's rules and be 'loyal'- but it feels misguided and feels like he misinterpreted what was and wasn't 'right' about Roddenberry's version of Trek. If anything, Roddenberry's Trek was pretty daring.

Anyhow- overall it's nice to see that the cast and crew seemed to all get along and that Trek tv did have a pretty good run- a lot of great episodes of TNG and DS9, and an arguable number of good ones from Enterprise and Voyager.

All in all- it's not bad!
(It's just too bad the movies and tv show seem so disconnected from 'real' Trek right now- again, hopefully it changes in the future).

[Metallo]

May 21, 2018 22:37:25 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I really enjoyed the 09 movie up to a point - to my surprise- as a starting point... but the sequel just destroyed all that goodwill. From the horrible 'new' look of the Klingons to the militaristic Federation to the misguided reboot of Khan. The third one was better than the second one- but the problem (imo) is that we still haven't had enough scenes to 'bond' enough with these SPECIFIC versions of the characters & was hoping we would have had scenes to feel more with them, before diving into copying (badly) Trek 2.

I can sort of respect what Berman did- in trying to stick to Roddenberry's rules and be 'loyal'- but it feels misguided and feels like he misinterpreted what was and wasn't 'right' about Roddenberry's version of Trek. If anything, Roddenberry's Trek was pretty daring.

Anyhow- overall it's nice to see that the cast and crew seemed to all get along and that Trek tv did have a pretty good run- a lot of great episodes of TNG and DS9, and an arguable number of good ones from Enterprise and Voyager.

All in all- it's not bad!
(It's just too bad the movies and tv show seem so disconnected from 'real' Trek right now- again, hopefully it changes in the future).

The 09 movie coasted on being a fun good time like a rollercoaster. It’s enterraining but the more and more you look at it it doesn’t make much sense (why would Spock launch Kirk off the ship where he just happens to land on the ice planet where old Spock is by the most unbelievable of coincidences and not throw his @ss in the brig for court marital) and doesn’t have much depth. It’s a collection of cliches from being a rehash or Star Wars to breaking the tos characters down into the most stereotypical generic idea of what they are. Kirk wasn’t THAT much of a rule breaking wolamnizer in tos yet in the movie he feeds into that cliche image of what Kirk is.

Like you said that Into Darkness blew any good will from the first film because it was once again a rehash without the fun. They waited too long to make a sequel instead of striking while the iron was hot. It was the laziest remake of wrath of khan just inverted and didn’t even bother trying to make sense. They’ve cured death with khans blood in a tribble. What? The 9/11 imagery was a decade too late and too on the nose. More cgi city destruction porn.

Why does time travel turn khan into a pasty white British guy again? The whole production was nonsense that just felt rushed together even though they didn’t want to do it. The 09 movie already remade TWOK but better so it felt like even more of a rehash than it already was.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 22, 2018 11:51:20 GMT -5 Metallo said:

May 21, 2018 22:37:25 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I really enjoyed the 09 movie up to a point - to my surprise- as a starting point... but the sequel just destroyed all that goodwill. From the horrible 'new' look of the Klingons to the militaristic Federation to the misguided reboot of Khan. The third one was better than the second one- but the problem (imo) is that we still haven't had enough scenes to 'bond' enough with these SPECIFIC versions of the characters & was hoping we would have had scenes to feel more with them, before diving into copying (badly) Trek 2.

I can sort of respect what Berman did- in trying to stick to Roddenberry's rules and be 'loyal'- but it feels misguided and feels like he misinterpreted what was and wasn't 'right' about Roddenberry's version of Trek. If anything, Roddenberry's Trek was pretty daring.

Anyhow- overall it's nice to see that the cast and crew seemed to all get along and that Trek tv did have a pretty good run- a lot of great episodes of TNG and DS9, and an arguable number of good ones from Enterprise and Voyager.

All in all- it's not bad!
(It's just too bad the movies and tv show seem so disconnected from 'real' Trek right now- again, hopefully it changes in the future).

The 09 movie coasted on being a fun good time like a rollercoaster. It’s enterraining but the more and more you look at it it doesn’t make much sense (why would Spock launch Kirk off the ship where he just happens to land on the ice planet where old Spock is by the most unbelievable of coincidences and not throw his @ss in the brig for court marital) and doesn’t have much depth. It’s a collection of cliches from being a rehash or Star Wars to breaking the tos characters down into the most stereotypical generic idea of what they are. Kirk wasn’t THAT much of a rule breaking wolamnizer in tos yet in the movie he feeds into that cliche image of what Kirk is.

Like you said that Into Darkness blew any good will from the first film because it was once again a rehash without the fun. They waited too long to make a sequel instead of striking while the iron was hot. It was the laziest remake of wrath of khan just inverted and didn’t even bother trying to make sense. They’ve cured death with khans blood in a tribble. What? The 9/11 imagery was a decade too late and too on the nose. More cgi city destruction porn.

Why does time travel turn khan into a pasty white British guy again? The whole production was nonsense that just felt rushed together even though they didn’t want to do it. The 09 movie already remade TWOK but better so it felt like even more of a rehash than it already was.

Trek 09 I really enjoyed as a starting point for a new version -not perfect, mind you- but I was not prepared to enjoy it at all. It convinced me to give the franchise a chance. Then, the sequel convinced me it didn't deserve it after all.

[Metallo]

I think a lot of people couldn’t see what it would do to the franchise long term. Short term it was a quick fun fix but long term that fix has worn off. I remember saying it on here ten years ago. “Yeah that’s well and good but what do they do AFTER?” We found out. Trek needed a long term fix like what we got with Star Trek SII or TNG season 3.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 22, 2018 20:43:27 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I think a lot of people couldn’t see what it would do to the franchise long term. Short term it was a quick fun fix but long term that fix has worn off. I remember saying it on here ten years ago. “Yeah that’s well and good but what do they do AFTER?” We found out. Trek needed a long term fix like what we got with Star Trek SII or TNG season 3.

I think what Trek into Darkness and the later seasons of Voyager neglected was that it was important to care about the ensemble of characters. Trek 3 was a noble attempt, and better than Darkness, but still underwhelming. Trek 3 felt like an expensive tv episode, but still was lacking. The Trek movies really do have an identity crisis without the tv shows to lean on- Marina Sirtis kind of scolded the audience for not seeing "Nemesis" over and over again.

I'd counter that if Paramont could be persuaded to do a limited Netflix tv series and the actors cut their fees, they could do an awesome TNG miniseries- especially from looking at how good Lost In Space looked.

[Metallo]

She should be paying refunds for the people that did see Nemesis with that kind of attitude. It was by far the most unoriginal laziest film of the TNG era. Insurrection was less ambitious but at least it wasn’t a load of rehashes like Nemesis. Poor script, awful attention to continuity (most tng films had that) and and director that was clueless.

Beyond...the marketing and the previous films reception killed that movie DOA but If also had problems of its own. Pegg overestimated himself. Poor bad guy and an enterprise destruction that I really found toothless.

I’d be fine with seeing gay characters in Trek (was disappointed they took that bit out of Lt. Hawks backstory in First Contact and was annoyed that Berman was too afraid to really go there with any character on tv) but Pegg handled it in the worst way. It came off as pandering and even Takei called him out on it. Then Pegg tried to say the alternate timeline made Sulu gay which was even more offensive. B5 handled a gay storyline so much better even though they couldn’t go all the way with it either. No one batted an eyelid either because it was so well written.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 23, 2018 20:14:27 GMT -5 Metallo said:

She should be paying refunds for the people that did see Nemesis with that kind of attitude. It was by far the most unoriginal laziest film of the TNG era. Insurrection was less ambitious but at least it wasn’t a load of rehashes like Nemesis. Poor script, awful attention to continuity (most tng films had that) and and director that was clueless.

Beyond...the marketing and the previous films reception killed that movie DOA but If also had problems of its own. Pegg overestimated himself. Poor bad guy and an enterprise destruction that I really found toothless.

I’d be fine with seeing magnificent characters in Trek (was disappointed they took that bit out of Lt. Hawks backstory in First Contact and was annoyed that Berman was too afraid to really go there with any character on tv) but Pegg handled it in the worst way. It came off as pandering and even Takei called him out on it. Then Pegg tried to say the alternate timeline made Sulu magnificent which was even more offensive. B5 handled a magnificent storyline so much better even though they couldn’t go all the way with it either. No one batted an eyelid either because it was so well written.

I actually was okay with the general plot of Nemesis BUT the casting had to be convincing- and while I was fine with transporters, the Federation, Klingons, etc.--- I couldn't get past the casting of Tom Hardy as a young Picard. If it was James Marsden, I could see it a little more.
Pity that Riker didn't direct Nemesis, I think he could have put the heart back into it. Sad that Stuart Baird apparently didn't do the research on the characters that he should have--- but then again, a great editor isn't necessarily the best director. Particularly if you're not a giant fan of Trek to begin with. (Would have been curious how it would have been if Bryan Singer- who had a cameo- directed it.)

[Metallo]

Singer would have done a good job on a really cerebral trek movie. X2 drew heavily on Star Trek 2 so he seemed to know what worked in a trek movie already. I wish his Trek show had gotten made instead of something like Discovery. It sounded a lot better.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 23, 2018 22:22:36 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Singer would have done a good job on a really cerebral trek movie. X2 drew heavily on Star Trek 2 so he seemed to know what worked in a trek movie already. I wish his Trek show had gotten made instead of something like Discovery. It sounded a lot better.

I actually would have liked to have seen his Battlestar Galactica sequel. It's never been revealed, but he said that his concept would have been fine also co-existing with the Ron Moore version, and the late Richard Hatch said awhile back that when Glen Larson died, there was more of a chance of Singer's version happening again--- but who knows how much Hatch was going to be a part of it....

[Metallo]

I’d read that they were considering combining their efforts. Hatch did eventually guest star on Moore’s BSG. I’d like to see Singers Logan’s Run remake.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 23, 2018 22:38:46 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I’d read that they were considering combining their efforts. Hatch did eventually guest star on Moore’s BSG. I’d like to see Singers Logan’s Run remake.

I can only think that maybe the idea of multiple timelines is (or was) somehow introduced in Singer's plan for both Battlestar versions to exist as 'canon', if that's what Singer meant.

I don't know if it was going to be Singer's version of it, but I bought a copy of Christopher Mcquarrie's Logan's Run on eBay - there were some neat things in it- but I think the Logan character in the 1970's was more clear and there were some things that made it a hard 'R'- and I'm not sure that I would have liked to have seen it as written.

It doesn't have the awful old man going off on monologues about cats, but I feel like it should have a rewrite with changes. I'm not sure it's 'right' as written.

[Metallo]

May 23, 2018 23:03:49 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

May 23, 2018 22:38:46 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I’d read that they were considering combining their efforts. Hatch did eventually guest star on Moore’s BSG. I’d like to see Singers Logan’s Run remake.

I can only think that maybe the idea of multiple timelines is (or was) somehow introduced in Singer's plan for both Battlestar versions to exist as 'canon', if that's what Singer meant.

I don't know if it was going to be Singer's version of it, but I bought a copy of Christopher Mcquarrie's Logan's Run on eBay - there were some neat things in it- but I think the Logan character in the 1970's was more clear and there were some things that made it a hard 'R'- and I'm not sure that I would have liked to have seen it as written.

It doesn't have the awful old man going off on monologues about cats, but I feel like it should have a rewrite with changes. I'm not sure it's 'right' as written.

I think there could have actually have worked with the whole vague idea of everything happening before and then happening again.

I think the original Logan’s run still works as a story just fine. The only thing a remake would bring is updated style and fx. I do think it could be tailored to comment on today’s youth opsessed culture even more.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 24, 2018 6:31:15 GMT -5 Metallo said:

May 23, 2018 23:03:49 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I can only think that maybe the idea of multiple timelines is (or was) somehow introduced in Singer's plan for both Battlestar versions to exist as 'canon', if that's what Singer meant.

I don't know if it was going to be Singer's version of it, but I bought a copy of Christopher Mcquarrie's Logan's Run on eBay - there were some neat things in it- but I think the Logan character in the 1970's was more clear and there were some things that made it a hard 'R'- and I'm not sure that I would have liked to have seen it as written.

It doesn't have the awful old man going off on monologues about cats, but I feel like it should have a rewrite with changes. I'm not sure it's 'right' as written.

I think there could have actually have worked with the whole vague idea of everything happening before and then happening again.

I think the original Logan’s run still works as a story just fine. The only thing a remake would bring is updated style and fx. I do think it could be tailored to comment on today’s youth opsessed culture even more.

I got interested in Logan's Run the movie oddly through the George Perez drawn comic adaptation (By far the best drawn comic book adaptation ever imo)- then saw the movie- and loved it = up until they got outside and ran into the old man with the cats. That didn't quite sit right as to what was supposed to happen- so I sought out the original novel- where the last act I thought was horrible, and the very end the worst. So the movie is/was much better.

I didn't know until later that a sequel was in mind- I would have been very curious to have seen how that would have been handled (the sequel novels are pretty terrible I doubt that they would have used it for inspiration). Marvel comics actually did two issues continuing from the movie that I thought was going to be a nice direction that fit- but MGM cut them off, saying that their contract didn't include continuing the story (The inhabitants have a riot amongst themselves a few minutes later after the film ends. Then they have to start picking up the pieces and go back to repair the city until a new mystery starts)-

Anyhow- there's things I liked about the new script, but I think the foundation of the original movie was better. The material is ripe for a great remake- but if it's not going to be Singer, hopefully it is a great director who can really make it something special. From waiting so long for the remake, I certainly hope it doesn't turn out to be a 'meh' like the Robocop remake.

[Metallo]

Yeah it’s got to be good. It would be a shame if they gave it to a hack director. They’d probably try to make it more action oriented like The Island which was itself a remake ripoff.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 24, 2018 13:47:28 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah it’s got to be good. It would be a shame if they gave it to a hack director. They’d probably try to make it more action oriented like The Island which was itself a remake ripoff.

I don't mind if something is a ripoff if they make it at least as good or offer something really fresh to the mix. The Island could have been good, but- like many of Bay's films- gets lame pretty soon after takeoff.

[Metallo]

That’s what should be done. A new spin on an old idea and making it their own is what we want and hope for. That’s what Star Trek and Aliens and Star Wars did. t’s when it’s a lazy rehash that’s the problem. The island was not only a ripoff but uninspired.

[Metallo]

[Metallo]

They’re trying waaaay too hard. Raven looks a little better in action compared to the bts photos. Robin somehow looks worse. Beast boy turns green. I think. The violence is like a kick@ss level parody.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 19, 2018 9:43:10 GMT -5 Metallo said:

They’re trying waaaay too hard. Raven looks a little better in action compared to the bts photos. Robin somehow looks worse. Beast boy turns green. I think. The violence is like a kick@ss level parody.

I don't know.... It is just a trailer- but for tv, it looks more promising than what I had expected previously. Raven reworked like Rogue from Singer's X-men isn't necessarily a bad thing- and I think I'm still recovering from "Smallville" sourness of avoiding costumes, so seeing costumes is a plus. I don't expect anything as good as the first season of Daredevil, but this COULD work.... (cautious optimism)

[Metallo]

Well it’s streaming but it feels like they’re just using the freedom just to push the boundaries and do what they couldn’t do on broadcast tv. “f*ck Batman.” Really? That’s their idea of mature? I hope they have more to offer than that. Daredevil is a good example of what to do but even then I have to ask what do they gain doing a more R rates Titans?

It also looks kinda cheap. The show comes off looking more like Inhumans than even Defenders. I figured they’d go for something more like Cloak and Dagger: a sort of limit pushing YA series that appeals more to millennials that doesn’t use many classic costumes. I get that but it doesn’t even look as well put together as that show (which isn’t great itself). Then again what did I expect from Akiva Goldsman?

The costumes also look closer to Smallville than they do the Arrowverse. Robin looks like the only one in a proper costume. I wouldn’t mind if they wore more normal clothes if they didnt look so silly. Raven could work but Starfire looks like a hooker in a cheap Halloween costume.