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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 25, 2017 15:55:17 GMT -5
For years that Donner/Brando footage was the holy grail of Superman movie material. I remember when everyone thought it was going to be the second coming. Then it was released and...wasn't. It was great to finally see it but it was never going to live up to everyone's expectations after being speculated on over and over for so long. I think it could have lived up to expectations if the acting and editing had been better. It just wasn't very good. 9 Had it been to the same standard as Jor El's farewell scene on Krypton, I think it would have been received much better. Oh, agreed.... that's why I want/wanted to see all the takes- if the unused takes are great, then it REALLY means that the editing was the culprit! (and/or unintentionally bad advice to have 'faster faster' takes in 2006 by Donner- a sea change as he also took a lot of time with the deleted 'entrance to the FOS' and 'arctic police' scenes, then felt they were unnecessary in 2006-so, there's that, too...) |
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crown
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Post by crown on Nov 25, 2017 20:00:17 GMT -5
Is it possible that everything was filmed, but Thau couldnt find it? Actually the first hotel room scene was filmed, Thau was going to put it into TDC, but Mankewitcz vetoed the idea saying "Clark should never kiss Lois!" Seriously though, I was crushed when I found out that Thau would be using the screen-test. The way the story was presented circa 2005 was that Thau just couldn't find the completed scene.. that he searched high and dry for it.... but eventually gave up and decided to use the screen test. Back then we all believed that Donner shot blank-bullets... Donner claimed he shot the scene in a Starlog issue but he was obviously mistaken. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 26, 2017 2:25:37 GMT -5
Is it possible that everything was filmed, but Thau couldnt find it? Actually the first hotel room scene was filmed, Thau was going to put it into TDC, but Mankewitcz vetoed the idea saying "Clark should never kiss Lois!" Seriously though, I was crushed when I found out that Thau would be using the screen-test. The way the story was presented circa 2005 was that Thau just couldn't find the completed scene.. that he searched high and dry for it.... but eventually gave up and decided to use the screen test. Back then we all believed that Donner shot blank-bullets... Donner claimed he shot the scene in a Starlog issue but he was obviously mistaken. I actually would have liked to have seen the scene before then, where Lois kisses Clark- and see how that played out, even if that were a screen test or a table read. Though... with the whirlwind production schedule, probably doubtful that they even had time for a table read for these films. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 26, 2017 6:27:50 GMT -5
I think it could have lived up to expectations if the acting and editing had been better. It just wasn't very good. 9 Had it been to the same standard as Jor El's farewell scene on Krypton, I think it would have been received much better. Oh, agreed.... that's why I want/wanted to see all the takes- if the unused takes are great, then it REALLY means that the editing was the culprit! (and/or unintentionally bad advice to have 'faster faster' takes in 2006 by Donner- a sea change as he also took a lot of time with the deleted 'entrance to the FOS' and 'arctic police' scenes, then felt they were unnecessary in 2006-so, there's that, too...) Not much we can do about the acting now but Thaus editing was like watch a butcher perform brain surgery. I'm sure Donner would have reshot and edited certain things. I loathe his editing of the music in the Donner cut. Anyone here could have done better. I can forgive certain things because of lack of money but his creative choices and skill were...lacking. I just wish Donner and Baird had come in and done it themselves. I imagine Ridley Scott even did more on the final cut of blade runner. |
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crown
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Post by crown on Nov 26, 2017 10:55:32 GMT -5
Wasn't the "I failed" scene literally Reeve's first day on set?
Makes you think that Brando's "Who am I?" gag was actually done on this scene?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 26, 2017 23:21:36 GMT -5
Oh, agreed.... that's why I want/wanted to see all the takes- if the unused takes are great, then it REALLY means that the editing was the culprit! (and/or unintentionally bad advice to have 'faster faster' takes in 2006 by Donner- a sea change as he also took a lot of time with the deleted 'entrance to the FOS' and 'arctic police' scenes, then felt they were unnecessary in 2006-so, there's that, too...) Not much we can do about the acting now but Thaus editing was like watch a butcher perform brain surgery. I'm sure Donner would have reshot and edited certain things. I loathe his editing of the music in the Donner cut. Anyone here could have done better. I can forgive certain things because of lack of money but his creative choices and skill were...lacking. I just wish Donner and Baird had come in and done it themselves. I imagine Ridley Scott even did more on the final cut of blade runner. Absolutely I wish Baird had come in.... but.... would his aesthetics have changed to the same degree as Donner's did in 2006 for Supes? (I definitely did not like the omissions of the villains' approaching the FOS and the removal of the Arctic Police bit) Otherwise- would have been interesting to see what his potential solutions would have been in integrating the footage from the two directors. Ridley I think had it MUCH easier because all the footage was his. I can't say that I blame Donner 100% for staying away from the Lester stuff, and saying that it was still too emotionally charged to be unbiased.... but I just wish a better job had been done with the final outcome (though most everyone apparently felt the same). |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 27, 2017 6:06:59 GMT -5
Good point. That does make a difference. Not everything he had to work with was his
I think they would have made creative different choices after 25 years but it still would have been preferred and better than what we got. I think if they tried they could have gotten close enough to their mindsets circa the late 70s to not be too far off their original intentions for II.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 27, 2017 13:19:13 GMT -5
Good point. That does make a difference. Not everything he had to work with was his I think they would have made creative different choices after 25 years but it still would have been preferred and better than what we got. I think if they tried they could have gotten close enough to their mindsets circa the late 70s to not be too far off their original intentions for II. Right- That's why I think storyboards and text (maybe audio from sound-alikes?) should have been placed for scenes that they couldn't film- while I do think the Niagara rescue was close enough to the Mank script (well, 50-60 percent perhaps) and was good to use, a lot of other (truncated) scenes by Lester just was too far from the tone of what Donner originally intended, but since they weren't shot- and it'd be too costly to recreate- I don't know how much animatics would have cost for something like this, but maybe either that or storyboards would have been better to really share Donner's vision. As is, it comes off worse because (despite the disclaimer at the beginning)- rather than really give a feel on Donner's vision, you get bits and pieces of Donner's footage with clipped bits and pieces of Lester's, and doesn't really feel like a comprehensive anything, sadly. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 27, 2017 14:38:25 GMT -5
That's a good idea now that I think about it. I wouldn't have bought it as it's own release but as an extras disc in the Supermans II set I'd have been very interested. Doing it in the way you suggest would have fewer story limitations the way the Donner cut does.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 27, 2017 15:08:50 GMT -5
That's a good idea now that I think about it. I wouldn't have bought it as it's own release but as an extras disc in the Supermans II set I'd have been very interested. Doing it in the way you suggest would have fewer story limitations the way the Donner cut does. I saw a 'restoration' of a longer version of Fritz Lang's Metropolis done once, with found stills replacing what was missing, and it helped show the bigger picture successfully I feel to me. I thought the same could/should have been done if they still had access to the storyboards/materials, or if they were lost to the winds. (Wonder if there were any recorded table reads, that would have been awesome, too, as material). |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 23, 2022 12:00:03 GMT -5
Lester's version was better
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