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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 21, 2020 15:07:08 GMT -5
Hopefully this year?  The sales were supposedly strong for STM's tv cut.... what are they waiting for? Not getting any younger, WB.... |
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dugpa
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Post by dugpa on Feb 23, 2020 20:01:06 GMT -5
Damnit CAM, I saw this post and thought it was an official announcement.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 24, 2020 0:16:48 GMT -5
darnit CAM, I saw this post and thought it was an official announcement. I wish it was too!  |
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 24, 2020 0:58:56 GMT -5
darnit CAM, I saw this post and thought it was an official announcement. Me too! |
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 26, 2020 1:08:06 GMT -5
When is the Selutron version of S2 going to be ready?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 26, 2020 1:54:22 GMT -5
When is the Selutron version of S2 going to be ready? I have a feeling he's already done one unofficial one for himself awhile ago... On the flip side- more hopeful for the official WB SII tv cut given how the editing is smoother and more complete than the RDC.... I don't get why WB has radio silence on any possibilty of this... |
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 26, 2020 19:26:53 GMT -5
I have a feeling he's already done one unofficial one for himself awhile ago... On the flip side- more hopeful for the official WB SII tv cut given how the editing is smoother and more complete than the RDC.... I don't get why WB has radio silence on any possibilty of this... Selutron wanted to use this new cut of Superman II as a jumping off point for whatever career he was looking for. He wanted complete access to the alternate material and he must have been told that’s off the table, so he abandoned it. Must have finally given up when he posted that temp ending that supposedly Mankiewicz saw and thought was good, but judging their opinion of the end result of the Donner cut, it ain’t much to go off of. Adywan is doing his edits of Star Wars because he’s a fan who wants to see it realized and share it with fellow fans. Passion is what brings these things to life. We’re pretty fortunate with that we have a fan edited HD version of II’s Restored International Cut. Hopefully things will be sorted out to get a proper widescreen version sometime in the near future. Warner Archive’s announcements are usually a surprise. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 26, 2020 21:03:00 GMT -5
I have a feeling he's already done one unofficial one for himself awhile ago... On the flip side- more hopeful for the official WB SII tv cut given how the editing is smoother and more complete than the RDC.... I don't get why WB has radio silence on any possibilty of this... Selutron wanted to use this new cut of Superman II as a jumping off point for whatever career he was looking for. He wanted complete access to the alternate material and he must have been told that’s off the table, so he abandoned it. Must have finally given up when he posted that temp ending that supposedly Mankiewicz saw and thought was good, but judging their opinion of the end result of the Donner cut, it ain’t much to go off of. Adywan is doing his edits of Star Wars because he’s a fan who wants to see it realized and share it with fellow fans. Passion is what brings these things to life. We’re pretty fortunate with that we have a fan edited HD version of II’s Restored International Cut. Hopefully things will be sorted out to get a proper widescreen version sometime in the near future. Warner Archive’s announcements are usually a surprise. Selutron seemed to really open up the idea of what was possible for a fan edit.... but I have to admit I was a little disappointed with his idea for ending SII--- even though it's true that there were/are a LOT of limitations as to what could have been done, with no footage. Would have preferred Stuart Baird had been chosen to do the re-edit.... but oh well. |
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 27, 2020 8:40:31 GMT -5
He definitely thought outside the box. With today’s new technology to easily rotoscope out actors or even FaceSwap, the possibilities are endless when it comes to pulling off a new Donner cut. The deal is that it needs to make everyone’s approval. Donner would HATE sharing credit with Lester, but we have the power to veto that with fan edits, along with using footage from other movies to create a pretty good product. It’s the only way to go.
I’m still confused on how involved Baird was on Superman II. They tried to claim what was in Lester’s II was cut by Baird, but I always figured that was supervised by John Victor Smith. I think they used that excuse to explain why it was relatively unchanged and involved Donner’s approval at the bare minimum.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 27, 2020 17:14:24 GMT -5
He definitely thought outside the box. With today’s new technology to easily rotoscope out actors or even FaceSwap, the possibilities are endless when it comes to pulling off a new Donner cut. The deal is that it needs to make everyone’s approval. Donner would HATE sharing credit with Lester, but we have the power to veto that with fan edits, along with using footage from other movies to create a pretty good product. It’s the only way to go. I’m still confused on how involved Baird was on Superman II. They tried to claim what was in Lester’s II was cut by Baird, but I always figured that was supervised by John Victor Smith. I think they used that excuse to explain why it was relatively unchanged and involved Donner’s approval at the bare minimum. I remember how shocked I was when seeing some of the first Selutron rotoscoped material. My whole problem with Lester's footage is his desire to go so cheap and tone-wise go too far into the slapstick direction. Donner may have had humor, but primarily he wanted a serious romantic action drama. The Mank script is definitely a shade darker- but it also doesn't fall off the map into pure silliness. I remember interviews with Baird saying how he had edited almost simultaneously STM and SII footage- with one editing suite for one movie across from the other-- and how he cut back and forth until they decided just to focus on STM. Style-wise to me the Donner sequences look like they were cut by Baird- with maybe extra trims by Victor Smith at the ends. I always felt like these scenes were completed by Baird: * 1: Moon scenes (except for the Nasa cutaways) * 2: Luthor escapes prison (though uncertain towards the end if the scene would have been extended like in the RDC- we do know that it was shot for night) * 3: Luthor approaches FOS (tv extended cut) * 4: Diner scene * 5: Lex in White House * 6: Villains storm into DP- up until Supes shows up... * 7: Villains approach FOS/ Arctic Police scene/ Supes & Lois chat outside FOS/ Balcony (tv cut) * 8: Jimmy gets new camera * 9: Diner rematch The only really questionable scene to me is the White House scene that's definitely more violent in the RDC- I'm guessing (though not sure) that the tv cut is more 'pure' Baird editing than maybe even the RDC.... |
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 28, 2020 1:10:56 GMT -5
If Selutron is no longer doing a professional version of S2, does that mean that we amateurs are now permitted to resume making fan cuts?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 28, 2020 12:31:55 GMT -5
I know you’re joking but in all seriousness I don’t thing there was anything saying we couldn’t. I always thought it should have been a free for all with fans editors out there once the material got out. I’d like to see even more talented fan editors go to work on all the films. Like Kamdan said with the technology now so much more is possible. Someone could REALLY improve certain shots from the Donner Cut with deepfake alone. Put more “Hackman” in the theatrical cut and less of his stand in. Improve the stand ins from the Donner cut too. The sky’s the limit. Just do what you can to avoid the legal problems that come with this kind of stuff.
We’re at a point we’re we COULD have Reeve’s Superman in Supergirl for some fleeting moments if someone really wanted to. Someone would have to get pretty creative on where and how they put him in but it could be done. It’s a brave new world for not only fan cuts but fan films in general.
Don’t like a replacement actor in a film or tv show? Do your own version and deepfake and redub with a sound alike. We’re getting to that point.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 29, 2020 3:00:49 GMT -5
I know you’re joking but in all seriousness I don’t thing there was anything saying we couldn’t. I always thought it should have been a free for all with fans editors out there once the material got out. I’d like to see even more talented fan editors go to work on all the films. Like Kamdan said with the technology now so much more is possible. Someone could REALLY improve certain shots from the Donner Cut with deepfake alone. Put more “Hackman” in the theatrical cut and less of his stand in. Improve the stand ins from the Donner cut too. The sky’s the limit. Just do what you can to avoid the legal problems that come with this kind of stuff. We’re at a point we’re we COULD have Reeve’s Superman in Supergirl for some fleeting moments if someone really wanted to. Someone would have to get pretty creative on where and how they put him in but it could be done. It’s a brave new world for not only fan cuts but fan films in general. Don’t like a replacement actor in a film or tv show? Do your own version and deepfake and redub with a sound alike. We’re getting to that point. It's true that could all be done now- but the joy I find/found in STM and parts of SII were mostly with the feeling that many of the great scenes were shot 'live' with real actors and real locations. Rather than feel more and more forgiving of Donner's 'lost' SII that could have been..... in reading the Mank scenes that weren't able to be shot--- picturing Donner going through the pains to have the battle scenes shot 'live' on location (presuming he would have done so in New York or at least bits)- It just kind of hurts more that we couldn't have had those missing scenes shot with the particular actors cast at that time. Hopefully some fan cut can capture some of the intensity that was on display in bits and pieces of some of the restored Donner moments (the bit where Non grabs Supes in the FOS & tosses him down comes to mind)- but while the resources are available nowadays to do almost anything.... it'd take someone of considerable skill to really restore (or create) scenes that could give us the Donner cut the way it really could have been. Someone might come close, (and many have offered a lot that gave the same chills) but to do perhaps the whole original script on the level I imagined from reading the script- it'd take a LOT of work.... even more than the considerable work I know a lot of fan editors have/had already put into their versions. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 29, 2020 8:40:21 GMT -5
I think most of fi Metropolis battle would have been on a stage. Maybe a few shots done on location in New York but that’s it. Shooting on a soundstage gave them more control and freedom do do certain things in the time they wanted to do them.
We’ll never get the Donner cut exactly how it should have been but were at a point where “amateurs” will soon be able to do a lot better and get a lot closer than what we have now. Shots in Superman vs The Death Star look better than Some of the new shots in the Donner cut.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 3, 2020 0:39:42 GMT -5
I think most of fi Metropolis battle would have been on a stage. Maybe a few shots done on location in New York but that’s it. Shooting on a soundstage gave them more control and freedom do do certain things in the time they wanted to do them. We’ll never get the Donner cut exactly how it should have been but were at a point where “amateurs” will soon be able to do a lot better and get a lot closer than what we have now. Shots in Superman vs The Death Star look better than Some of the new shots in the Donner cut. Under Donner, at least it probably wouldn't have LOOKED (or been lit to look like) a stage. What's so odd about the theatrical SII is that up until the Metro battle, the Lester stuff might have been a bit slapstick and sloppy, but you did care enough about the drama.... until the battle that took a left turn and put all the priorities on trying to have comedy. It goes back to the drama later, but what an odd hard turn in mid-film.... |
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Post by Kamdan on Mar 3, 2020 7:05:31 GMT -5
“It’s funny, but it’s not funny.” ~ Ilya Salkind
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 3, 2020 16:30:52 GMT -5
“It’s funny, but it’s not funny.” ~ Ilya Salkind I remember something like that- from the commentary? I know also that Ilya said he was preoccupied with a relationship at the time and might have dampened some of Lester's excesses during shooting... What's sad is that I do think that Lester could have competently directed the rest of SII as written by Mank- (even if it probably would have been shot tv-style cheap) but his decision to flop it squarely on the side of comedy really was painful. Even on first watch, it felt like two schizophrenic movies to me--- and was glad when I was able to get a copy of the Mank script at a convention years ago. Even the rewrite for the last half by the Newmans don't seem as pushed to the edge as what Lester came up with. If the movie was always about staying with the protagonists, why did we feel like we spent an eternity on visual 'wind' jokes in the middle of a dramatic scene? |
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 4, 2020 3:21:16 GMT -5
We are still discussing Superman II after 40 years.
In 2053, will anyone care about Man of Steel?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 4, 2020 9:24:34 GMT -5
At this rate how many people will care about it in 20 23 ?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 4, 2020 13:47:42 GMT -5
It's so odd how history in the long run seems to determine what's really successful and not-
Superman Returns is a 'bomb' by a portion of the fans & determined a disappointment by WB.... then time passes and Brandon Routh's Superman is celebrated when he returns (albiet briefly) and SR's place in history is reconsidered...
Man of Steel is considered a 'hit' box office wise, and the Snyder/Henry Cavill Superman gets two more film appearances..... and now, Cavill isn't returning and the Superman appearances are hardly celebrated, even by the movie's biggest supporters...
So-
Cut to now...
The Superman movie series seems REALLY dead--- enough so, so that a tv show is happening in direct competition to it.
Smallville was sort of competition to SR- but not really as it was 'pre-Superman'.
While Mark Millar's choices are a mixed bag to me---
I do think his idea of really planning out multiple films was not a bad idea at all- like a Lord of the Rings series.... but with the DCEU's plan having fallen apart at the seams.....
Can't imagine WHAT kind of planning is going on now-
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Post by atp on Mar 5, 2020 2:38:42 GMT -5
I think it's undisputable now that Cavill's Superman and MoS are a failure.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 5, 2020 17:07:24 GMT -5
I think it's undisputable now that Cavill's Superman and MoS are a failure. In interviews it sounded like Cavill had his heart in the right place- and if MOS had proper guidance, it could have been amazing... but I thought even though the 'Whedon fixup' of Superman into a positive spirit worked- but just too little too late. So, I don't blame Cavill.... but many poor choices by folks in charge prior to JL.... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2020 11:28:31 GMT -5
The grass is always greener on the other side. Some people were happy with MOS because they hated SR. But now there are also some people who appreciate SR more after being so disappointed with MOS. A reappraisal if you will. How many people who hated the very idea of a super son LOVE it now in the comics with Jon Kent?
Then there’s the fact that some people who were very young kids when SR came out loved it then and are adults now. Now their voices are being heard more loudly within the overall conversation. The same thing seems to be happening with the prequels. People who were five when they came out are adults now and that means the overall opinion has shifted. It’s the way these things always go. I know people who were kids when Batman & Robin came out and they f’ing LOVE it. A lot of purists HATED the Adam West Batman series in the 60s 70s and 80s now it’s beloved by some of the same people while others who were kids, loved it, and later on made their voices heard.
There’s always a mix of people of different opinions and different ages and over time those peoples opinions change across the board. Maybe in 20 years opinions on Snyder’s dceu will shift in the same way.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2020 11:33:13 GMT -5
I think it's undisputable now that Cavill's Superman and MoS are a failure. In interviews it sounded like Cavill had his heart in the right place- and if MOS had proper guidance, it could have been amazing... but I thought even though the 'Whedon fixup' of Superman into a positive spirit worked- but just too little too late. So, I don't blame Cavill.... but many poor choices by folks in charge prior to JL.... I think Cavill was little misguided using Red Son as an inspiration on his take. I get what he was thinking on how being in the real and more modern world would affect Superman’s outlook. The problem was the world Snyder created that Superman grew up In was a bleak depressing mess. And even if the world was different the Kent’s should have kept their salt of the earth morals and ideals. That’s what core of the character is born from. If you’re giving us a heroic Superman you don’t change Superman you change the world around him and the story is how he stays true to himself while he navigates the complexities and moral gray areas of the modern world. It’s why Captain America has worked so well on screen. It’s also why Routh’s Superman was so well received in Crisis. Despite all the hardships he’d gone through in the last few years he kept the smile on as Freddie Mercury said. Berlanti and co probably cracked the code on delivering a classic Superman better than anyone since the Reeve era. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 7, 2020 12:38:32 GMT -5
In interviews it sounded like Cavill had his heart in the right place- and if MOS had proper guidance, it could have been amazing... but I thought even though the 'Whedon fixup' of Superman into a positive spirit worked- but just too little too late. So, I don't blame Cavill.... but many poor choices by folks in charge prior to JL.... I think Cavill was little misguided using Red Son as an inspiration on his take. I get what he was thinking on how being in the real and more modern world would affect Superman’s outlook. The problem was the world Snyder created that Superman grew up In was a bleak depressing mess. And even if the world was different the Kent’s should have kept their salt of the earth morals and ideals. That’s what core of the character is born from. If you’re giving us a heroic Superman you don’t change Superman you change the world around him and the story is how he stays true to himself while he navigates the complexities and moral gray areas of the modern world. It’s why Captain America has worked so well on screen. It’s also why Routh’s Superman was so well received in Crisis. Despite all the hardships he’d gone through in the last few years he kept the smile on as Freddie Mercury said. Berlanti and co probably cracked the code on delivering a classic Superman better than anyone since the Reeve era. Two scenes in particular really 'broke' the film for me early on: #1: Teen Clark whining "You're not my real dad!" before Pa Kent got killed by a hurricane while saving a dog- and Clark could have still saved him. #2: Superman using his heat vision on Lois Lane in the FOS to cauterize a wound... WTH? Superman as horror movie didn't sit right... "Man of Apathy" is probably a more accurate title. |
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