Justice League: The Snyder Cut

[crazy_asian_man]

Feb 17, 2021 1:58:27 GMT -5 atp said:

I'd only accept CGI if it were used to create a villains rule the world scene

At this point, I'd rather it be cheap back projection with fuzzy lines as long as we got the real footage of the actors on wires/whatnot!

One thing for sure though: there was confirmation that Donner shot the bits of Ursa destroying Mount Rushmore.... why couldn't we have seen THAT in the Donner cut?

[Metallo]

Feb 17, 2021 1:58:27 GMT -5 atp said:

I'd only accept CGI if it were used to create a villains rule the world scene

I’m guessing the DCEU hasn’t let you down then.

Feb 17, 2021 11:48:22 GMT -5 dejan said:

Feb 16, 2021 17:31:20 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Me too. It’s become a really stale formula for their movies. Snyder’s Doomsday was just Nuclear Man on cgi steroids.

Or Snyder's Doomsday was the Cave Troll from The Fellowship Of The Ring......but still on steroids!

All joking aside I really do think Goyer and Snyder based him on Nuclear Man. The similarities are too obvious not to notice. It’s like they said we can make this better.



Both kill or nearly kill Superman by piercing his skin with sharp projections. Luthor mixed a bit of himself with Kryptonian DNA to create each of them and they even have bolts of orange electricity arcing off their bodies. That’s something the comic book version of Doomsday never did before.

[Metallo]

www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/02/the-true-story-of-justice-league-snyder-cut

It’s a pretty in depth and interesting read.

[crazy_asian_man]

Feb 22, 2021 14:04:38 GMT -5 Metallo said:

www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/02/the-true-story-of-justice-league-snyder-cut

It’s a pretty in depth and interesting read.

I saw this. It is interesting how he made sure he wasn't paid so that he could negotiate better and have the $$$ thrown at it...

All along, though, can only think: why couldn't this be the situation with Donner's SII?

[Metallo]

I guess they saw the Donner cut as older and not worth that kind of investment. It’s too bad since Superman II was the far bigger hit compared to Justice League. Then again that might have worked against it in some ways. It was never going to get the kind of big money investment that the Snyder Cut is getting but since so many people loved the theatrical version of II anyway there wasn’t that same kind of fervent outcry to “fix it.”

[dejan]

Feb 23, 2021 14:05:54 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I guess they saw the Donner cut as older and not worth that kind of investment. It’s too bad since Superman II was the far bigger hit compared to Justice League. Then again that might have worked against it in some ways. It was never going to get the kind of big money investment that the Snyder Cut is getting but since so many people loved the theatrical version of II anyway there wasn’t that same kind of fervent outcry to “fix it.”

Indeed.

I think that it's ironic that Donner has probably shot more live "complete" footage for SII than Snyder has for JL.
Yet thanks to the photo-chemical era within which the project was made ,Donner still had entire scenes still to shoot(that he never got the chance to do in the end).

Snyder on the other hand has filmed everything (even at the point that he had to initially relinquish the project in 2016).

It's a slightly difficult thing to describe and apologies in advance for using the word complete a lot!......but for the kind of flick that Snyder makes......there is not one shot that is essentially complete.......nearly every shot will have something added to it to complete it.

Even a scene that may involve 2 people talking in a park will still need some kind of CG enhancement to complete the shot:


The bare bones scenes look pretty frackin' awful:




They still look awful even when they are complete(but at least they are complete!).





But using  traditional methods.......a live shot was truly a live shot. Everything you see is real....the sky , the rocks ect:



Sure even in the photo-chemical world, adjustments could be applied to live footage(i.e to remove the wires)

But the shots were essentially complete:





There is way more computer trickery required to complete uncompleted shots like these:




....than these:

[Metallo]

Snyder shooting on green screen so much has been a drawback in so many ways. His films are so stylized it never looks real anyway but I guess that’s done right hide all the cgi uncanny valley problems so it’s a circular issue.

Nolan has it right in shooting as much practical as he can and then doing digital touch ups. It makes things look so much better and cuts down on post production time. They can put more effort into fewer cgi shots.

[crazy_asian_man]

Feb 23, 2021 19:08:37 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Snyder shooting on green screen so much has been a drawback in so many ways. His films are so stylized it never looks real anyway but I guess that’s done right hide all the cgi uncanny valley problems so it’s a circular issue.

Nolan has it right in shooting as much practical as he can and then doing digital touch ups. It makes things look so much better and cuts down on post production time. They can put more effort into fewer cgi shots.

To me, I can actually forgive a lot if the performances and story are good. Practical does look better in general, but if it's going to be 100 percent CGI, then I just want it to look visually stunning and imaginative, if it's going to be fake looking.

[Metallo]

[crazy_asian_man]

I'm guessing that this is an end-credit roll... much like the Avengers' statue at the end of Age of Ultron.
Just wish I had more faith that this would be a feel-good movie. It's a curiosity, but.... the Marvel stuff is delivering with good humor and energy. At least there will be marvel stuff year round hopefully...

[Metallo]

Yeah thank God for a Marvel. It’s giving me as a fan everything I want and more. I don’t feel like I have to dig to find something I like and it feels like they have a plan.

With DC Im open to anything new they do as long as it’s good even if it’s not what I’d do. And then there’s to stuff that I don’t like. With them I’m just trying to take what I can get that’s good but it’s not always easy to find anything. But maybe this is one of those times where WB/DC doing something risky and different with their characters is what they need to do in the post Snyder era. Same thing with stand alone films.

[crazy_asian_man]

Feb 27, 2021 22:02:30 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah thank God for a Marvel. It’s giving me as a fan everything I want and more. I don’t feel like I have to dig to find something I like and it feels like they have a plan.

With DC Im open to anything new they do as long as it’s good even if it’s not what I’d do. And then there’s to stuff that I don’t like. With them I’m just trying to take what I can get that’s good but it’s not always easy to find anything. But maybe this is one of those times where WB/DC doing something risky and different with their characters is what they need to do in the post Snyder era. Same thing with stand alone films.

Absolutely.

If I had kids-

It's like Marvel is the kid who lives up or exceeds all your expectations... while DC is like the slower one that you want to do better and root for- but in reality don't expect much from.

[Metallo]

Ouch. I guess? With Disney/Marvel you can depend on them. With WB/DC you never know what you’re going to get. There’s no stability. It really reminds me of a good marriage vs a bad one.

[dejan]

Nice interview with Snyder breaking down his new cut:



metallo linked to that Vanity Fair interview a few posts back.

A couple of points come to mind:

Will the death of Snyder's daughter inform his artistic instincts to be more restrained .....when it comes to the slap bang wallop scenes that will proliferate throughout his cut?!......but not just for this cut....but for all his future projects too.

Obviously Snyder has a certain template to conform too with regards to the JL......but will personal tragedy actually make Snyder a more mature director.

IMHO.....there is one scene in the much derided Sucker Punch that I found to be quite poignant.
It's where Oscar Isacc threatens to kill(and eventually does kill) some of the girls for subverting his operation:

there are no special effects--it's actually recited as if it were on stage.....which indicates to me that Snyder does have some potential to execute genuinely dramatic personal scenes(without the aid of CG)......but like most directors in this genre and of this generation......they are ODing on CGI! 

[Metallo]

I think Snyder’s going to keep doing his Snyder thing. The Snyder cut looks to be him doubling down on his worst creative instincts. Army of the Dead seems to be more fun but it’s hard to tell because of the trailer.

I though Sucker Punch was terrible. It had the facade of trying to send out a message of empowering women to overcome oppression but I think it was just him using it to showcase is favorite geek ideas in a fetishistic way. Snyder as usual not being able to work well with heavier deeper themes.

I’d give most of the credit for any good performances to the actors. He had a few great actors working for him. There’s a reason Oscar Isaac has gotten some high profile gigs in recent years. The same thing happened on Snyder’s DC movies. Some actors floundered while others could occasionally rise above the limitations of the material.

[crazy_asian_man]

Mar 2, 2021 16:51:41 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I think Snyder’s going to keep doing his Snyder thing. The Snyder cut looks to be him doubling down on his worst creative instincts. Army of the Dead seems to be more fun but it’s hard to tell because of the trailer.

I though Sucker Punch was terrible. It had the facade of trying to send out a message of empowering women to overcome oppression but I think it was just him using it to showcase is favorite geek ideas in a fetishistic way. Snyder as usual not being able to work well with heavier deeper themes.

I’d give most of the credit for any good performances to the actors. He had a few great actors working for him. There’s a reason Oscar Isaac has gotten some high profile gigs in recent years. The same thing happened on Snyder’s DC movies. Some actors floundered while others could occasionally rise above the limitations of the material.

Yeah, Sucker Punch was incredibly painful... but I know of folks who actually LOVE it and talk about the themes of it--- To me, I enjoyed one of the extended cut's action sequences. But, otherwise, I hated it myself.

BUT...
I remember the adage: "nobody sets out to make a bad film", which I think is (mostly) true.

Even as much as I have major annoyance at Richard Lester, I do think he was trying to make the film his way and thankfully for him, we see his undiluted brilliance with Superman III! (Sorry, I still can't escape my snark)

But- it is weird, because I do think he is passionate and maybe he's a nice person- but his choices drive me insane. Some creators might be able to recognize things that work, but for the most part, I think anyone who survives in Hwood probably has to have a certain level of self-delusion in their work to survive....

[dejan]

@cam & metallo

Yup

I too fear that Snyder will succumb to his usual base instincts with regards to the JL.

Also, totally agree that Sucker Punch was goddam awful....... and back in 2011, it was the main reason why I personally began to worry for the fate of the (soon to be in production) new Superman movie.
The rest as they say is history!

And cam

SIII is undiluted brilliance......compared to Sucker Punch!

[crazy_asian_man]

Mar 2, 2021 19:36:46 GMT -5 dejan said:

@cam & metallo

Yup

I too fear that Snyder will succumb to his usual base instincts with regards to the JL.

Also, totally agree that Sucker Punch was goddam awful....... and back in 2011, it was the main reason why I personally began to worry for the fate of the (soon to be in production) new Superman movie.
The rest as they say is history!

And cam

SIII is undiluted brilliance......compared to Sucker Punch!

Hmm.... well.... sure.

[Metallo]

Mar 2, 2021 19:01:04 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Mar 2, 2021 16:51:41 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I think Snyder’s going to keep doing his Snyder thing. The Snyder cut looks to be him doubling down on his worst creative instincts. Army of the Dead seems to be more fun but it’s hard to tell because of the trailer.

I though Sucker Punch was terrible. It had the facade of trying to send out a message of empowering women to overcome oppression but I think it was just him using it to showcase is favorite geek ideas in a fetishistic way. Snyder as usual not being able to work well with heavier deeper themes.

I’d give most of the credit for any good performances to the actors. He had a few great actors working for him. There’s a reason Oscar Isaac has gotten some high profile gigs in recent years. The same thing happened on Snyder’s DC movies. Some actors floundered while others could occasionally rise above the limitations of the material.

Yeah, Sucker Punch was incredibly painful... but I know of folks who actually LOVE it and talk about the themes of it--- To me, I enjoyed one of the extended cut's action sequences. But, otherwise, I hated it myself.

BUT...
I remember the adage: "nobody sets out to make a bad film", which I think is (mostly) true.

Even as much as I have major annoyance at Richard Lester, I do think he was trying to make the film his way and thankfully for him, we see his undiluted brilliance with Superman III! (Sorry, I still can't escape my snark)

But- it is weird, because I do think he is passionate and maybe he's a nice person- but his choices drive me insane. Some creators might be able to recognize things that work, but for the most part, I think anyone who survives in Hwood probably has to have a certain level of self-delusion in their work to survive....

I just don’t think Snyder is suited to being a director. He’s more like a DP or concept guy. He can’t seem to make the tough choices a director has to make. He loses track and tries to cram too much into his films. I don’t think he gets the point of the stories he’s telling or cares. Maybe he should stick with visual filmmaking instead of trying to do anything with a traditional narrative.

[Metallo]

Mar 2, 2021 19:36:46 GMT -5 dejan said:

@cam & metallo

Yup

I too fear that Snyder will succumb to his usual base instincts with regards to the JL.

Also, totally agree that Sucker Punch was goddam awful....... and back in 2011, it was the main reason why I personally began to worry for the fate of the (soon to be in production) new Superman movie.
The rest as they say is history!

And cam

SIII is undiluted brilliance......compared to Sucker Punch!

It’s style over substance. He gives the story part just enough lip service but doesn’t have the mindset to follow through on the kinds of stories he says he’s making.

[atp]

Snyder would be a good "CGI Villains Unit Director", but not a main director.

He should have been hired to create the missing scenes from the Donner Cut of S2.

[Metallo]

I’d agree with you if he could keep his style in check. I really do think he should be doing something that handles visuals and not story though. He lacks discipline as a director.

[Metallo]

[dejan]

Mar 3, 2021 8:16:32 GMT -5 atp said:

Snyder would be a good "CGI Villains Unit Director", but not a main director.

He should have been hired to create the missing scenes from the Donner Cut of S2.

haha....brilliant.

The question would be if Snyder would do a Lucas and insert material that does not fit artistically, technically or thematically with the original material.......or if he instead opts for the Star Trek The Motion Picture :Special Edition type of work......where the new stuff is blended in with the old with some degree of finesse.

Snyder being Snyder .....my bet is that he would do the former

[Metallo]