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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 6, 2021 14:44:26 GMT -5
The stuff the MCU has done (as a movie serial with complex storylines and crossovers) is something I've dreamed about as a kid, but after years of mostly a dessert with superhero films- But- Just seeing (as you mentioned)- even a single superhero franchise not really be able to follow through on quality and/or success made me lower the bar- Superman (imo) flopped in the middle of SII with the Lester stuff dragging down the Donner stuff- SIII was pure Lester - SIV was a noble try but showed pretty much how much older the supporting cast had gotten. (Though I'm still glad that SIV exists rather than SIII as the last film) The Batman series had a chance to be the start of something giant, but Batman Returns annoyed WB (too dark for the kids) and Burton/Keaton didn't seem thrilled or committed to stick it out for a giant 10-20 year franchise.... Spiderman I think would have been fantastic if they let Raimi be in full control- (Spiderman 3 was a mess but multiple factors not all Raimi) Raimi I think in an interview mentioned wanting to do 6 or 7 movies - and I think he and Tobie would have committed to it, if Sony hadn't pulled the plug for a reboot. (Though the first 2 1/2 are not bad at all) But- Sony was too short-sighted and too reboot-happy. When they tried to setup a Spiderverse with villains movie, they forgot to make a good movie with the second Spiderman film.... so, thank goodness someone there had the smarts to make a deal with Marvel. With X-men/Fox- it's not the greatest record (good films: X1, X2, bits of X3, First Class, DOFP, bits of Apocalypse, and Wolverine// bad ones: Origins, the second Wolverine, Dark Phoenix, most of X3)- but considering how the contract had already run out on most of the leads, it's pretty impressive that they were able to 'restart' properly without a full-on reboot with First Class and DOFP (Huge credit to the unfortunately -seemingly exiled- Bryan SInger). That they had the ambition to reconnect with the original group after First Class I love- and that they were able to coerce some big name stars to come back to the table (Berry, Stewart) I gave them props for. (In addition, the GIfted turned out to be a MUCH better series than I expected also in connection with the X-series). Next to the MCU, while imperfect, I do think whoever made it happen (Fox? Lauren Shuler Donner? Singer?)- went further than the mostly failed 'superhero trilogy' ambitions at that point. Sad that it ended on such a horrible note.... in many ways, it might have been better to have finished with X-Men: DOFP. What's sad/funny is that by the time Fox had done most of the X-men movies and the MCU had done "Avengers", WB was able to see what was going on and catch up- but end up running into speed bumps left and right with Miller's unfinished Justice League- pulling the plug on Superman Returns' sequel with Dark Knight's success- and then their experiment with the Snyderverse.... to where it's still a hit and miss and see what sticks to the wall game.... In the meantime... Fox's X-men/Fantastic Four moved to Disney/back to Marvel- And after conquering movies, Kevin Feige is moving onto conquering streaming television with superhero series. While WB and Sony are STILL trying to play catchup. Oh well. At least it's not MY millions.  And does Fox have ANYTHING left? (And I have a hunch Valiant and Atlas are in permanent holding patterns until/if things get back to normal) |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 6, 2021 18:04:34 GMT -5
The stuff the MCU has done (as a movie serial with complex storylines and crossovers) is something I've dreamed about as a kid, but after years of mostly a dessert with superhero films- But- Just seeing (as you mentioned)- even a single superhero franchise not really be able to follow through on quality and/or success made me lower the bar- Superman (imo) flopped in the middle of SII with the Lester stuff dragging down the Donner stuff- SIII was pure Lester - SIV was a noble try but showed pretty much how much older the supporting cast had gotten. (Though I'm still glad that SIV exists rather than SIII as the last film) The Batman series had a chance to be the start of something giant, but Batman Returns annoyed WB (too dark for the kids) and Burton/Keaton didn't seem thrilled or committed to stick it out for a giant 10-20 year franchise.... Spiderman I think would have been fantastic if they let Raimi be in full control- (Spiderman 3 was a mess but multiple factors not all Raimi) Raimi I think in an interview mentioned wanting to do 6 or 7 movies - and I think he and Tobie would have committed to it, if Sony hadn't pulled the plug for a reboot. (Though the first 2 1/2 are not bad at all) But- Sony was too short-sighted and too reboot-happy. When they tried to setup a Spiderverse with villains movie, they forgot to make a good movie with the second Spiderman film.... so, thank goodness someone there had the smarts to make a deal with Marvel. With X-men/Fox- it's not the greatest record (good films: X1, X2, bits of X3, First Class, DOFP, bits of Apocalypse, and Wolverine// bad ones: Origins, the second Wolverine, Dark Phoenix, most of X3)- but considering how the contract had already run out on most of the leads, it's pretty impressive that they were able to 'restart' properly without a full-on reboot with First Class and DOFP (Huge credit to the unfortunately -seemingly exiled- Bryan SInger). That they had the ambition to reconnect with the original group after First Class I love- and that they were able to coerce some big name stars to come back to the table (Berry, Stewart) I gave them props for. (In addition, the GIfted turned out to be a MUCH better series than I expected also in connection with the X-series). Next to the MCU, while imperfect, I do think whoever made it happen (Fox? Lauren Shuler Donner? Singer?)- went further than the mostly failed 'superhero trilogy' ambitions at that point. Sad that it ended on such a horrible note.... in many ways, it might have been better to have finished with X-Men: DOFP. What's sad/funny is that by the time Fox had done most of the X-men movies and the MCU had done "Avengers", WB was able to see what was going on and catch up- but end up running into speed bumps left and right with Miller's unfinished Justice League- pulling the plug on Superman Returns' sequel with Dark Knight's success- and then their experiment with the Snyderverse.... to where it's still a hit and miss and see what sticks to the wall game.... In the meantime... Fox's X-men/Fantastic Four moved to Disney/back to Marvel- And after conquering movies, Kevin Feige is moving onto conquering streaming television with superhero series. While WB and Sony are STILL trying to play catchup. Oh well. At least it's not MY millions. And does Fox have ANYTHING left? (And I have a hunch Valiant and Atlas are in permanent holding patterns until/if things get back to normal) For various reasons Hollywood’s never been able to replicate the long term serialized storytelling in comics. Even when it was good life or business got in the way. Actors moved on or died or ratings or box office declined. But most of the time the quality declined because they didn’t know how to keep it up. Marvel Studios has somehow defied the odds. Even the Spider-Man deal with Sony got worked out despite all our fears. Now they have all those Fox properties back so they’ve overcome that roadblock too. The death of Chadwick Bozeman is the first real thing beyond their control that’s thrown a wrench into their machine. Considering how big the MCU is now its amazing it hasn’t happened more or before now. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 6, 2021 18:23:52 GMT -5
Chadwick Boseman's death sucks on so, so, so many levels....
One thing I do disagree with though- (unless they can figure out a good way to flip it creatively) was to not recast Black Panther... the character is so huge and impactful that I think Boseman would have approved. (Though I don't think they should recast Luke Skywalker but use age-defying cgi on Mark Hamill- or deepfakes I was ok with that).
Storywise, hopefully they can figure out how to get other characters in Wakanda to come to the forefront.
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Mar 11, 2021 12:47:18 GMT -5
The big problem with black Panther is there is still so much to do with TChalla. It’d be a real loss if they retired the character on
The big screen now. It’s hard to imagine anyone else stepping in for Bozeman but I think the character should go on. He meant a lot to a lot of people and there are some great stories with him left to tell. I think Bozeman wood want that but who really knows.
I think it’s a case by case basis kind of deal.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 11, 2021 14:35:05 GMT -5
The big problem with black Panther is there is still so much to do with TChalla. It’d be a real loss if they retired the character on The big screen now. It’s hard to imagine anyone else stepping in for Bozeman but I think the character should go on. He meant a lot to a lot of people and there are some great stories with him left to tell. I think Bozeman wood want that but who really knows. I think it’s a case by case basis kind of deal. Totally agree- If Rhodey and Banner could be recast in the MCU.... it's giant shoes to fill, but- Anyhow- it sounds like a decision has already been made- The character is such a symbol, maybe they're building another character up in the tv series on Wakanda and maybe graduate him to take over in the movies? I mean, Shuri is cool, but I prefer her as a supporting character rather than replacing the Black Panther... |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 12, 2021 12:46:03 GMT -5
The stuff the MCU has done (as a movie serial with complex storylines and crossovers) is something I've dreamed about as a kid, but after years of mostly a dessert with superhero films- But- Just seeing (as you mentioned)- even a single superhero franchise not really be able to follow through on quality and/or success made me lower the bar- Superman (imo) flopped in the middle of SII with the Lester stuff dragging down the Donner stuff- SIII was pure Lester - SIV was a noble try but showed pretty much how much older the supporting cast had gotten. (Though I'm still glad that SIV exists rather than SIII as the last film) The Batman series had a chance to be the start of something giant, but Batman Returns annoyed WB (too dark for the kids) and Burton/Keaton didn't seem thrilled or committed to stick it out for a giant 10-20 year franchise.... Spiderman I think would have been fantastic if they let Raimi be in full control- (Spiderman 3 was a mess but multiple factors not all Raimi) Raimi I think in an interview mentioned wanting to do 6 or 7 movies - and I think he and Tobie would have committed to it, if Sony hadn't pulled the plug for a reboot. (Though the first 2 1/2 are not bad at all) But- Sony was too short-sighted and too reboot-happy. When they tried to setup a Spiderverse with villains movie, they forgot to make a good movie with the second Spiderman film.... so, thank goodness someone there had the smarts to make a deal with Marvel. With X-men/Fox- it's not the greatest record (good films: X1, X2, bits of X3, First Class, DOFP, bits of Apocalypse, and Wolverine// bad ones: Origins, the second Wolverine, Dark Phoenix, most of X3)- but considering how the contract had already run out on most of the leads, it's pretty impressive that they were able to 'restart' properly without a full-on reboot with First Class and DOFP (Huge credit to the unfortunately -seemingly exiled- Bryan SInger). That they had the ambition to reconnect with the original group after First Class I love- and that they were able to coerce some big name stars to come back to the table (Berry, Stewart) I gave them props for. (In addition, the GIfted turned out to be a MUCH better series than I expected also in connection with the X-series). Next to the MCU, while imperfect, I do think whoever made it happen (Fox? Lauren Shuler Donner? Singer?)- went further than the mostly failed 'superhero trilogy' ambitions at that point. Sad that it ended on such a horrible note.... in many ways, it might have been better to have finished with X-Men: DOFP. What's sad/funny is that by the time Fox had done most of the X-men movies and the MCU had done "Avengers", WB was able to see what was going on and catch up- but end up running into speed bumps left and right with Miller's unfinished Justice League- pulling the plug on Superman Returns' sequel with Dark Knight's success- and then their experiment with the Snyderverse.... to where it's still a hit and miss and see what sticks to the wall game.... In the meantime... Fox's X-men/Fantastic Four moved to Disney/back to Marvel- And after conquering movies, Kevin Feige is moving onto conquering streaming television with superhero series. While WB and Sony are STILL trying to play catchup. Oh well. At least it's not MY millions. And does Fox have ANYTHING left? (And I have a hunch Valiant and Atlas are in permanent holding patterns until/if things get back to normal) All valid points there cam. I would add that it can also depend on which mindset you employ and what background you have(comic book/movie fan or not) when you watch the Marvel flicks. The personal reason why I rate STM(or indeed Lester's SII) higher than say something like Infinity War(or Endgame) is that I don't have to be familiar with any other flick in order to understand what's going on. heck even SIV is palatable enough in that sense......you don't technically have to have seen STM,II & III to get a handle on what is occurring in that monstrosity of a flick!(the same applies to SII & III) So, the stand alone marvel flicks unfortunately have that discrepancy embedded into their fabric. As a key example, if you did not see Cap America 1(or you are not familiar with the comic book lore).....then the reveal of Bucky(after that super cool hand to hand combat sequence) in The Winter Soldier will lose a considerable edge. The more astute observers will notice that the Russos did in fact include a very quick exposition with regards to Bucky's historical relationship to Cap in the opening 1st half hour of The Winter Soldier(when Rodgers walks through the museum in partial disguise-with a cap on no less-no pun intended  ).In other words the Russos knew the fundamental importance of that exposition(they also added that quick flash back sequence to accentuate the bond between the 2 characters after Bucky's maskless reveal). But the Marvel flicks/universe are saturated with these discrepancies. When I watched Endgame for the first time, I had not yet seen Cap Marvel-so to see her show up at the end of the movie to challenge Thanos was jarring to put it mildly-of course I understood the implications of her presence so I was ultimately more acquiescent to her appearance than another non comic book/marvel fan coming in from the cold might have been. As I write I have still not seen Ant Man 1 or 2 (and I have very little zest to do so). Again, I personally accepted Paul Rudd's appearance(due to his natural comic timing and affable nature)in Civil War without too much cynicism in 2016......but a more critical/unbiased movie goer would have been far less accommodating. I do agree that what Marvel has achieved with regards to intertwining multiple story threads over so many years and movies, with the added complexity of the utilization of different directors(and actors--here's lookin' at you Rhody!) is definitely to be commended.....and is an unprecedented feat in modern movie making. But put another way I personally could quite easily have accepted STM on it's own without any other movie having been made subsequently. It's a complete picture in it's own right. I am pretty sure a substantial bulk(maybe even the majority-who knows?) of the movie going audience in 1978 were not Superman comic book fans when they first watched that movie. In fact, STM probably turned them into comic book fans! This even applies to those who were involved in the production like Reeve, Kidder and even Brando!. So yeah.....lots of factors to take into consideration with regards to the efficacy of Marvel's output. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2021 20:15:13 GMT -5
The stuff the MCU has done (as a movie serial with complex storylines and crossovers) is something I've dreamed about as a kid, but after years of mostly a dessert with superhero films- But- Just seeing (as you mentioned)- even a single superhero franchise not really be able to follow through on quality and/or success made me lower the bar- Superman (imo) flopped in the middle of SII with the Lester stuff dragging down the Donner stuff- SIII was pure Lester - SIV was a noble try but showed pretty much how much older the supporting cast had gotten. (Though I'm still glad that SIV exists rather than SIII as the last film) The Batman series had a chance to be the start of something giant, but Batman Returns annoyed WB (too dark for the kids) and Burton/Keaton didn't seem thrilled or committed to stick it out for a giant 10-20 year franchise.... Spiderman I think would have been fantastic if they let Raimi be in full control- (Spiderman 3 was a mess but multiple factors not all Raimi) Raimi I think in an interview mentioned wanting to do 6 or 7 movies - and I think he and Tobie would have committed to it, if Sony hadn't pulled the plug for a reboot. (Though the first 2 1/2 are not bad at all) But- Sony was too short-sighted and too reboot-happy. When they tried to setup a Spiderverse with villains movie, they forgot to make a good movie with the second Spiderman film.... so, thank goodness someone there had the smarts to make a deal with Marvel. With X-men/Fox- it's not the greatest record (good films: X1, X2, bits of X3, First Class, DOFP, bits of Apocalypse, and Wolverine// bad ones: Origins, the second Wolverine, Dark Phoenix, most of X3)- but considering how the contract had already run out on most of the leads, it's pretty impressive that they were able to 'restart' properly without a full-on reboot with First Class and DOFP (Huge credit to the unfortunately -seemingly exiled- Bryan SInger). That they had the ambition to reconnect with the original group after First Class I love- and that they were able to coerce some big name stars to come back to the table (Berry, Stewart) I gave them props for. (In addition, the GIfted turned out to be a MUCH better series than I expected also in connection with the X-series). Next to the MCU, while imperfect, I do think whoever made it happen (Fox? Lauren Shuler Donner? Singer?)- went further than the mostly failed 'superhero trilogy' ambitions at that point. Sad that it ended on such a horrible note.... in many ways, it might have been better to have finished with X-Men: DOFP. What's sad/funny is that by the time Fox had done most of the X-men movies and the MCU had done "Avengers", WB was able to see what was going on and catch up- but end up running into speed bumps left and right with Miller's unfinished Justice League- pulling the plug on Superman Returns' sequel with Dark Knight's success- and then their experiment with the Snyderverse.... to where it's still a hit and miss and see what sticks to the wall game.... In the meantime... Fox's X-men/Fantastic Four moved to Disney/back to Marvel- And after conquering movies, Kevin Feige is moving onto conquering streaming television with superhero series. While WB and Sony are STILL trying to play catchup. Oh well. At least it's not MY millions. And does Fox have ANYTHING left? (And I have a hunch Valiant and Atlas are in permanent holding patterns until/if things get back to normal) All valid points there cam. I would add that it can also depend on which mindset you employ and what background you have(comic book/movie fan or not) when you watch the Marvel flicks. The personal reason why I rate STM(or indeed Lester's SII) higher than say something like Infinity War(or Endgame) is that I don't have to be familiar with any other flick in order to understand what's going on. heck even SIV is palatable enough in that sense......you don't technically have to have seen STM,II & III to get a handle on what is occurring in that monstrosity of a flick!(the same applies to SII & III) So, the stand alone marvel flicks unfortunately have that discrepancy embedded into their fabric. As a key example, if you did not see Cap America 1(or you are not familiar with the comic book lore).....then the reveal of Bucky(after that super cool hand to hand combat sequence) in The Winter Soldier will lose a considerable edge. The more astute observers will notice that the Russos did in fact include a very quick exposition with regards to Bucky's historical relationship to Cap in the opening 1st half hour of The Winter Soldier(when Rodgers walks through the museum in partial disguise-with a cap on no less-no pun intended ).In other words the Russos knew the fundamental importance of that exposition(they also added that quick flash back sequence to accentuate the bond between the 2 characters after Bucky's maskless reveal). But the Marvel flicks/universe are saturated with these discrepancies. When I watched Endgame for the first time, I had not yet seen Cap Marvel-so to see her show up at the end of the movie to challenge Thanos was jarring to put it mildly-of course I understood the implications of her presence so I was ultimately more acquiescent to her appearance than another non comic book/marvel fan coming in from the cold might have been. As I write I have still not seen Ant Man 1 or 2 (and I have very little zest to do so). Again, I personally accepted Paul Rudd's appearance(due to his natural comic timing and affable nature)in Civil War without too much cynicism in 2016......but a more critical/unbiased movie goer would have been far less accommodating. I do agree that what Marvel has achieved with regards to intertwining multiple story threads over so many years and movies, with the added complexity of the utilization of different directors(and actors--here's lookin' at you Rhody!) is definitely to be commended.....and is an unprecedented feat in modern movie making. But put another way I personally could quite easily have accepted STM on it's own without any other movie having been made subsequently. It's a complete picture in it's own right. I am pretty sure a substantial bulk(maybe even the majority-who knows?) of the movie going audience in 1978 were not Superman comic book fans when they first watched that movie. In fact, STM probably turned them into comic book fans! This even applies to those who were involved in the production like Reeve, Kidder and even Brando!. So yeah.....lots of factors to take into consideration with regards to the efficacy of Marvel's output. I agree that you can't really enjoy many of the MCU's movie without having seen the whole series of films. But on the flip side, nobody else (George Lucas was close) in film history has made what's basically the biggest cinematic 'superhero novel' with the movies as separate chapters of a whole. So it's a plus/minus depending on what kind of experience one prefers for a superhero film.... but, I will say--- WB's 'standalone' movies approach HAS to be easier to coordinate! |
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Metallo
New Member
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Posts: 17,075
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Post by Metallo on Mar 14, 2021 17:07:07 GMT -5
The stuff the MCU has done (as a movie serial with complex storylines and crossovers) is something I've dreamed about as a kid, but after years of mostly a dessert with superhero films- But- Just seeing (as you mentioned)- even a single superhero franchise not really be able to follow through on quality and/or success made me lower the bar- Superman (imo) flopped in the middle of SII with the Lester stuff dragging down the Donner stuff- SIII was pure Lester - SIV was a noble try but showed pretty much how much older the supporting cast had gotten. (Though I'm still glad that SIV exists rather than SIII as the last film) The Batman series had a chance to be the start of something giant, but Batman Returns annoyed WB (too dark for the kids) and Burton/Keaton didn't seem thrilled or committed to stick it out for a giant 10-20 year franchise.... Spiderman I think would have been fantastic if they let Raimi be in full control- (Spiderman 3 was a mess but multiple factors not all Raimi) Raimi I think in an interview mentioned wanting to do 6 or 7 movies - and I think he and Tobie would have committed to it, if Sony hadn't pulled the plug for a reboot. (Though the first 2 1/2 are not bad at all) But- Sony was too short-sighted and too reboot-happy. When they tried to setup a Spiderverse with villains movie, they forgot to make a good movie with the second Spiderman film.... so, thank goodness someone there had the smarts to make a deal with Marvel. With X-men/Fox- it's not the greatest record (good films: X1, X2, bits of X3, First Class, DOFP, bits of Apocalypse, and Wolverine// bad ones: Origins, the second Wolverine, Dark Phoenix, most of X3)- but considering how the contract had already run out on most of the leads, it's pretty impressive that they were able to 'restart' properly without a full-on reboot with First Class and DOFP (Huge credit to the unfortunately -seemingly exiled- Bryan SInger). That they had the ambition to reconnect with the original group after First Class I love- and that they were able to coerce some big name stars to come back to the table (Berry, Stewart) I gave them props for. (In addition, the GIfted turned out to be a MUCH better series than I expected also in connection with the X-series). Next to the MCU, while imperfect, I do think whoever made it happen (Fox? Lauren Shuler Donner? Singer?)- went further than the mostly failed 'superhero trilogy' ambitions at that point. Sad that it ended on such a horrible note.... in many ways, it might have been better to have finished with X-Men: DOFP. What's sad/funny is that by the time Fox had done most of the X-men movies and the MCU had done "Avengers", WB was able to see what was going on and catch up- but end up running into speed bumps left and right with Miller's unfinished Justice League- pulling the plug on Superman Returns' sequel with Dark Knight's success- and then their experiment with the Snyderverse.... to where it's still a hit and miss and see what sticks to the wall game.... In the meantime... Fox's X-men/Fantastic Four moved to Disney/back to Marvel- And after conquering movies, Kevin Feige is moving onto conquering streaming television with superhero series. While WB and Sony are STILL trying to play catchup. Oh well. At least it's not MY millions. And does Fox have ANYTHING left? (And I have a hunch Valiant and Atlas are in permanent holding patterns until/if things get back to normal) All valid points there cam. I would add that it can also depend on which mindset you employ and what background you have(comic book/movie fan or not) when you watch the Marvel flicks. The personal reason why I rate STM(or indeed Lester's SII) higher than say something like Infinity War(or Endgame) is that I don't have to be familiar with any other flick in order to understand what's going on. heck even SIV is palatable enough in that sense......you don't technically have to have seen STM,II & III to get a handle on what is occurring in that monstrosity of a flick!(the same applies to SII & III) So, the stand alone marvel flicks unfortunately have that discrepancy embedded into their fabric. As a key example, if you did not see Cap America 1(or you are not familiar with the comic book lore).....then the reveal of Bucky(after that super cool hand to hand combat sequence) in The Winter Soldier will lose a considerable edge. The more astute observers will notice that the Russos did in fact include a very quick exposition with regards to Bucky's historical relationship to Cap in the opening 1st half hour of The Winter Soldier(when Rodgers walks through the museum in partial disguise-with a cap on no less-no pun intended ).In other words the Russos knew the fundamental importance of that exposition(they also added that quick flash back sequence to accentuate the bond between the 2 characters after Bucky's maskless reveal). But the Marvel flicks/universe are saturated with these discrepancies. When I watched Endgame for the first time, I had not yet seen Cap Marvel-so to see her show up at the end of the movie to challenge Thanos was jarring to put it mildly-of course I understood the implications of her presence so I was ultimately more acquiescent to her appearance than another non comic book/marvel fan coming in from the cold might have been. As I write I have still not seen Ant Man 1 or 2 (and I have very little zest to do so). Again, I personally accepted Paul Rudd's appearance(due to his natural comic timing and affable nature)in Civil War without too much cynicism in 2016......but a more critical/unbiased movie goer would have been far less accommodating. I do agree that what Marvel has achieved with regards to intertwining multiple story threads over so many years and movies, with the added complexity of the utilization of different directors(and actors--here's lookin' at you Rhody!) is definitely to be commended.....and is an unprecedented feat in modern movie making. But put another way I personally could quite easily have accepted STM on it's own without any other movie having been made subsequently. It's a complete picture in it's own right. I am pretty sure a substantial bulk(maybe even the majority-who knows?) of the movie going audience in 1978 were not Superman comic book fans when they first watched that movie. In fact, STM probably turned them into comic book fans! This even applies to those who were involved in the production like Reeve, Kidder and even Brando!. So yeah.....lots of factors to take into consideration with regards to the efficacy of Marvel's output. I think even though watching all the MCU movies helps with a better viewing experience you really only need to watch five or six MCU films to understand what’s going on in Infinity War and Endgame and follow the whole Thanos quest. The Avengers Captain America: The Winter Soldier Guardians of The Galaxy Avengers: Age of Ultron Captain America Civil War Thor Ragnorok You get good explanation of who all the major players are, what the stones are is covered pretty well in those movies, and we’re introduced to Thanos and what he wants. Even with Captain Marvel they don’t give her a major role in Endgame. Mostly to keep a powerful player off the board but also so they don’t have to explain so much. Fury sends her an intergalactic page on his high tech beeper in Infinity War and then she shows up to save Stark and later explains where she’s been. Even Doctor Strange first gets name dropped in Winter Soldier and Ragnarok gives you just enough info to understand what he’s about. The Marvel experiment should have been a dumpster fire. No one else has really been able to successfully replicate it. WB half tried it with the DCEU and that fell flat in its face out of the gate. Marvel Studios has had its stumbles but nothing like their distinguished competition. I remember all of us here use to talk about a Justice League movie and why it wouldn’t work. The MCU and DCEU ended up being perfect examples for both sides of that argument. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 14, 2021 19:39:19 GMT -5
I think Universal also fell on its face with trying to do a "monster mash" universe as well.... again, showing just how not-easy it is to succeed with a crossover franchise.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 14, 2021 20:45:59 GMT -5
MetalloAgreed with your points regarding which marvel movies contain the salient points. I would personally add The First Avenger to that list-if only because it really accentuates the bond between Rogers and Bucky. So when that pivotal(and narrative defining) split occurs between Stark and Rogers (over Bucky)--it has that extra resonance when one watches everything from Civil War onwards(it also amplifies the emotional effectiveness of The Winter Soldier).
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 14, 2021 21:28:52 GMT -5
I almost left The Winter Soldier off my list because I think the average person can still follow the basics of what’s going on without it but I just don’t think you can leave out who Bucky is, who Rumlow is, who Sam is, and most of all the fall of Shield. Endgame makes several references to TWS. The Winter Soldier establishes a lot of things and also does a lot to built the Steve/Natasha friendship and I really think it’s the movie that cements Cap as the character everyone knows and loves in the MCU. Evans was always good in the role but The Winter Soldier is the film that puts Cap on Iron Mans level in my opinion.
I think Winter Soldier and Civil War do just enough to give you an idea of the Steve/Bucky friendship. Especially that great flashback right after Steve’s moms funeral. The First Avenger does give it all more depth though.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 14, 2021 21:31:14 GMT -5
I think Universal also fell on its face with trying to do a "monster mash" universe as well.... again, showing just how not-easy it is to succeed with a crossover franchise. Dark Universe was a total farce and everything wrong with the franchise filmmaking mentality. They did worse than WB did with DC. They did the complete opposite of what marvel did. They expected everyone to care because they announced a shared universe but didn’t do the on screen work to build up peoples anticipation. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 15, 2021 12:44:32 GMT -5
I think Universal also fell on its face with trying to do a "monster mash" universe as well.... again, showing just how not-easy it is to succeed with a crossover franchise. Dark Universe was a total farce and everything wrong with the franchise filmmaking mentality. They did worse than WB did with DC. They did the complete opposite of what marvel did. They expected everyone to care because they announced a shared universe but didn’t do the on screen work to build up peoples anticipation. The Sony Spiderman universe building with Andrew Garfield was a mess, too- I'm skeptical on their plans to do it again with Venom and Spiderman... |
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
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Post by Metallo on Mar 16, 2021 10:21:13 GMT -5
Unless Feige is a happy helping them I expect the Spiderverse or venomverse to blow up in their faces.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 16, 2021 12:02:13 GMT -5
Unless Feige is a happy helping them I expect the Spiderverse or venomverse to blow up in their faces. Agreed.... I (sadly) wouldn't be suprised if Sony repeats its mistakes and thinks they know better than Feige. Still- it's a bit miraculous that Feige was able to negotiate and get a deal with Sony in the first place- especially with Disney not having rights to homecoming (I presume) or the other Spiderman films. Even more strangs I think is how it seemed that Feige wanted to make a deal with Universal for Hulk, but Universal won't budge. (Maybe Universal has to have enough bombs first to be humble enough to play ball) |
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).In other words the Russos knew the fundamental importance of that exposition(they also added that quick flash back sequence to accentuate the bond between the 2 characters after Bucky's maskless reveal).