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Post by Kamdan on Feb 26, 2021 12:31:33 GMT -5
I was thankful 20 years ago when Abrams’ penned Superman script was trashed. Now it seems like they’re gonna dig it up again for another go at making Superman. What I want out of a Superman film franchise is too out of reach, so I’m not looking forward to this attempt. Would rather see Abrams handle Green Lantern. Hopefully it’ll have a few surprises. www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/superman-reboot-ta-nehisi-coates-jj-abrams/amp/ |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 26, 2021 13:49:18 GMT -5
The little we know lsounds intriguing. Fresh writing perspective is welcome. Im fine with a reboot since the Snyder version had its chance. I’m fine with an actor of a different race at this point. There’s more than enough “classic” Superman that’s been inspired by the silver age, Bronze Age, post Crisis, new 52, Rebirth, etc. If I want that I got it. If this is an Elseworlds/Joker kind of take even better because it’ll give them even more freedom.
Then I saw JJ Abrams name attached. Dammmmmmmit. 😫 He’s back to finish off what he started almost 18 years ago with his awful Superman script. First Star Trek. Now Star Wars. I pray he doesn’t rape yet another long running film franchise. Hopefully his producing credit is just him putting his name on it and staying as far as possible from any creative decisions.
Between this and Tyler Hoechlin playing a more classic Superman on tv I think Henry Cavill may as well throw in his cape. This just reinforces it even more. Giving Berlanti permission to develop a Superman show was writing on the wall that they had no major plans for a more traditional Superman beyond guest spots in existing DCEU films.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Feb 26, 2021 17:20:06 GMT -5
The little we know lsounds intriguing. Fresh writing perspective is welcome. Im fine with a reboot since the Snyder version had its chance. I’m fine with an actor of a different race at this point. There’s more than enough “classic” Superman that’s been inspired by the silver age, Bronze Age, post Crisis, new 52, Rebirth, etc. If I want that I got it. If this is an Elseworlds/Joker kind of take even better because it’ll give them even more freedom. Then I saw JJ Abrams name attached. Dammmmmmmit. 😫 He’s back to finish off what he started almost 18 years ago with his awful Superman script. First Star Trek. Now Star Wars. I pray he doesn’t rape yet another long running film franchise. Hopefully his producing credit is just him putting his name on it and staying as far as possible from any creative decisions. Between this and Tyler Hoechlin playing a more classic Superman on tv I think Henry Cavill may as well throw in his cape. This just reinforces it even more. Giving Berlanti permission to develop a Superman show was writing on the wall that they had no major plans for a more traditional Superman beyond guest spots in existing DCEU films. You said it Metallo   |
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Post by atp on Feb 27, 2021 4:20:54 GMT -5
If MoS and Cavill were so great, why is Superman being rebooted after only 7 years?
Will the MoS fans who bullied the rest of us finally apologize?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 27, 2021 9:57:27 GMT -5
If MoS and Cavill were so great, why is Superman being rebooted after only 7 years? Will the MoS fans who bullied the rest of us finally apologize? We all knew Cavill was out three years ago. He never achieved the kind of broad popularity needed to be kept on long term despite a vocal minority online saying otherwise. The Snyder experiment was a failure. The DCEU as a whole has been a failure. A few bright spots here and there but it’s been a string of mistakes and blown opportunities. At least with Routh he can say he only had one shot on the big screen. The Snyder version of the character had multiple chances and never really took off. I tell you one thing ATP Cavill’s looking like a real idiot now. He should have just done that Shazam cameo. He could have earned some goodwill and if it had worked out well maybe WB would have been more interested in using him more. He wasn’t worth the money he was asking for and I think that really sealed his fate. His management did him no favors on that front. You can’t start playing hardball with the studio if you’ve got no power or success to use to bargain with. |
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Post by atp on Feb 27, 2021 14:29:07 GMT -5
I still don't understand why the few of us were villified and ridiculed and bullied for having concerns about MoS back in 2013.
History has shown us to have been right.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 27, 2021 14:32:13 GMT -5
I was thankful 20 years ago when Abrams’ penned Superman script was trashed. Now it seems like they’re gonna dig it up again for another go at making Superman. What I want out of a Superman film franchise is too out of reach, so I’m not looking forward to this attempt. Would rather see Abrams handle Green Lantern. Hopefully it’ll have a few surprises. www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/superman-reboot-ta-nehisi-coates-jj-abrams/amp/I'm not happy to see Abrams name attached, either... but... I'm not so sure that it'll be going back to the old Abrams script- (1) everyone had access to it and (2) the response still might not be giving WB confidence when they could go back to square one, even if SR's box office disappointed-and the choice of writers is certainly out of the box thinking. Singer's SR was probably the best chance for a traditional/ Donneresque interpretation to come back to the big screen, because the desire was there and Singer had the clout at the time. With SR's box office not being great, with MOS/etc. bombing in the long run, and now a tv show to compete- I can only see WB saying, 'just do something different than everything else so far'--- Which means: 1. Different and good or 2. Different and awful or 3. Different and good/awful In any case, makes me want to go back and cling to thoose old Donner blu rays... open to seeing what new versions there are of Superman/Supergirl, but haven't really embraced anything new.... at this point, I'd only feel more hope if Jon Favreau or Kevin Feige were doing the reboot... |
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Post by Metallo on Feb 27, 2021 14:38:28 GMT -5
I still don't understand why the few of us were villified and ridiculed and bullied for having concerns about MoS back in 2013. History has shown us to have been right. They wanted it to work and be successful (which I get) and didn’t like anyone blowing their fantasy. All because they liked it and didn’t like hearing that other people didn’t (which I don’t get). It’s like the kid that sticks his fingers in his ears and screams because he doesn’t want to hear something he doesn’t like. I ever remember someone that was a long time member (I won’t say who it was) saying that every Superman fan should support MOS no matter what so it could be successful. If you didn’t like it or thought it was a failure support it anyway. I think their mind that’s what fans should do. Thankfully it was the causal audience and not the hardcore fans who made the choice for all of us. They voted with their dollars and that meant the clock was ticking on the Snyder verse. |
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Post by Metallo on Feb 27, 2021 14:43:08 GMT -5
I was thankful 20 years ago when Abrams’ penned Superman script was trashed. Now it seems like they’re gonna dig it up again for another go at making Superman. What I want out of a Superman film franchise is too out of reach, so I’m not looking forward to this attempt. Would rather see Abrams handle Green Lantern. Hopefully it’ll have a few surprises. www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/superman-reboot-ta-nehisi-coates-jj-abrams/amp/I'm not happy to see Abrams name attached, either... but... I'm not so sure that it'll be going back to the old Abrams script- (1) everyone had access to it and (2) the response still might not be giving WB confidence when they could go back to square one, even if SR's box office disappointed-and the choice of writers is certainly out of the box thinking. Singer's SR was probably the best chance for a traditional/ Donneresque interpretation to come back to the big screen, because the desire was there and Singer had the clout at the time. With SR's box office not being great, with MOS/etc. bombing in the long run, and now a tv show to compete- I can only see WB saying, 'just do something different than everything else so far'--- Which means: 1. Different and good or 2. Different and awful or 3. Different and good/awful In any case, makes me want to go back and cling to thoose old Donner blu rays... open to seeing what new versions there are of Superman/Supergirl, but haven't really embraced anything new.... at this point, I'd only feel more hope if Jon Favreau or Kevin Feige were doing the reboot... My biggest fear is that WB thinks that Superman and the classic Superman story is the problem and that moving farther and farther away from it is the solution. I think they realize that MOS was too dark for a crowd pleasing franchise launcher but I’m not sure if they realize the the biggest problem was the quality of the film(s). I’m fine with them trying something different but they need to understand that different alone won’t be enough to make this the kind of success they want. It has to be good. Unfortunately I don’t have faith that they understand all that. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 27, 2021 15:06:10 GMT -5
I'm not happy to see Abrams name attached, either... but... I'm not so sure that it'll be going back to the old Abrams script- (1) everyone had access to it and (2) the response still might not be giving WB confidence when they could go back to square one, even if SR's box office disappointed-and the choice of writers is certainly out of the box thinking. Singer's SR was probably the best chance for a traditional/ Donneresque interpretation to come back to the big screen, because the desire was there and Singer had the clout at the time. With SR's box office not being great, with MOS/etc. bombing in the long run, and now a tv show to compete- I can only see WB saying, 'just do something different than everything else so far'--- Which means: 1. Different and good or 2. Different and awful or 3. Different and good/awful In any case, makes me want to go back and cling to thoose old Donner blu rays... open to seeing what new versions there are of Superman/Supergirl, but haven't really embraced anything new.... at this point, I'd only feel more hope if Jon Favreau or Kevin Feige were doing the reboot... My biggest fear is that WB thinks that Superman and the classic Superman story is the problem and that moving farther and farther away from it is the solution. I think they realize that MOS was too dark for a crowd pleasing franchise launcher but I’m not sure if they realize the the biggest problem was the quality of the film(s). I’m fine with them trying something different but they need to understand that different alone won’t be enough to make this the kind of success they want. It has to be good. Unfortunately I don’t have faith that they understand all that. Agreed... But, I think to add to the problem of WB thinking the source material is broken or won't appeal enough to audiences 'as is'--- you have good directors that wouldn't want to do a straight adaptation without enough of their own spin to make it worth their while. A 'from the ground up reboot' would appeal to any director if he/she had few restrictions and give them a chance to also show off. Even with Singer, he wanted to add the twist with the kid (which could have been horrible but I do think he pulled that part off great)- but wholeheartedly embracing Donner's original film (mostly) and carrying it into his, is something I don't think is a situation we might not ever see again in a superhero (or fantasy) film... it seems like there's so little to gain for a director to do that.... it really had to be someone who was an ultimate fanboy to do that- which is why I thought Singer didn't get enough credit for being that humble to do so. ("I can't do it better, so I'll make the original part of it and move it forward"- a super-humble approach it seems) ON another note, with newspapers pretty much on life support- at least one aspect of the mythos has to be figured out or readjusted. (Interesting that Clark was layed off right in the pilot of Superman and Lois to address that)- It's got to be a challenge to figure out how to adapt or keep some of the rest of Superman's origin for now if it's reboot time... |
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Post by Metallo on Feb 27, 2021 16:57:26 GMT -5
My biggest fear is that WB thinks that Superman and the classic Superman story is the problem and that moving farther and farther away from it is the solution. I think they realize that MOS was too dark for a crowd pleasing franchise launcher but I’m not sure if they realize the the biggest problem was the quality of the film(s). I’m fine with them trying something different but they need to understand that different alone won’t be enough to make this the kind of success they want. It has to be good. Unfortunately I don’t have faith that they understand all that. Agreed... But, I think to add to the problem of WB thinking the source material is broken or won't appeal enough to audiences 'as is'--- you have good directors that wouldn't want to do a straight adaptation without enough of their own spin to make it worth their while. A 'from the ground up reboot' would appeal to any director if he/she had few restrictions and give them a chance to also show off. Even with Singer, he wanted to add the twist with the kid (which could have been horrible but I do think he pulled that part off great)- but wholeheartedly embracing Donner's original film (mostly) and carrying it into his, is something I don't think is a situation we might not ever see again in a superhero (or fantasy) film... it seems like there's so little to gain for a director to do that.... it really had to be someone who was an ultimate fanboy to do that- which is why I thought Singer didn't get enough credit for being that humble to do so. ("I can't do it better, so I'll make the original part of it and move it forward"- a super-humble approach it seems) ON another note, with newspapers pretty much on life support- at least one aspect of the mythos has to be figured out or readjusted. (Interesting that Clark was layed off right in the pilot of Superman and Lois to address that)- It's got to be a challenge to figure out how to adapt or keep some of the rest of Superman's origin for now if it's reboot time... Parts of his origin and backstory have slowly been becoming outdated for decades. As technology grows some things are harder to believe. His ship not being discovered becomes more hard to believe but that can be partly explained away as it being technologically advanced enough to hide from the Air Force or radar. Things that weren’t really an issue in 1938. Clarks identity would be a lot harder to keep secret. Everybody’s got smart phone in their pocket with facial recognition and can immediately share high quality photos, video, or information with millions of other people around the world instantaneously. One look on Facebook could easily blow Clark’s secret if he isn’t careful. I think that kind of problem is one reason so many recent superhero movies are eschewing the idea of the “secret” identity. That and it just being an old played out trope in general. How many MCU heroes even have one? It was pretty clear Snyder wanted to do away with the traditional idea of Clark Kent as we know him. There was no way he was going to come back from the dead and go back to his old life without some serious problems. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 27, 2021 19:24:31 GMT -5
Agreed... But, I think to add to the problem of WB thinking the source material is broken or won't appeal enough to audiences 'as is'--- you have good directors that wouldn't want to do a straight adaptation without enough of their own spin to make it worth their while. A 'from the ground up reboot' would appeal to any director if he/she had few restrictions and give them a chance to also show off. Even with Singer, he wanted to add the twist with the kid (which could have been horrible but I do think he pulled that part off great)- but wholeheartedly embracing Donner's original film (mostly) and carrying it into his, is something I don't think is a situation we might not ever see again in a superhero (or fantasy) film... it seems like there's so little to gain for a director to do that.... it really had to be someone who was an ultimate fanboy to do that- which is why I thought Singer didn't get enough credit for being that humble to do so. ("I can't do it better, so I'll make the original part of it and move it forward"- a super-humble approach it seems) ON another note, with newspapers pretty much on life support- at least one aspect of the mythos has to be figured out or readjusted. (Interesting that Clark was layed off right in the pilot of Superman and Lois to address that)- It's got to be a challenge to figure out how to adapt or keep some of the rest of Superman's origin for now if it's reboot time... Parts of his origin and backstory have slowly been becoming outdated for decades. As technology grows some things are harder to believe. His ship not being discovered becomes more hard to believe but that can be partly explained away as it being technologically advanced enough to hide from the Air Force or radar. Things that weren’t really an issue in 1938. Clarks identity would be a lot harder to keep secret. Everybody’s got smart phone in their pocket with facial recognition and can immediately share high quality photos, video, or information with millions of other people around the world instantaneously. One look on Facebook could easily blow Clark’s secret if he isn’t careful. I think that kind of problem is one reason so many recent superhero movies are eschewing the idea of the “secret” identity. That and it just being an old played out trope in general. How many MCU heroes even have one? It was pretty clear Snyder wanted to do away with the traditional idea of Clark Kent as we know him. There was no way he was going to come back from the dead and go back to his old life without some serious problems. Yeah.... hm... Well- I guess that's where Batman's secret identity is a lot easier to roll with- wearing that headpiece and coming out at night helps. SPOILER ALERT FOR SUPERMAN AND LOIS AHEAD... (Hopefully it's scrolled down enough) The bit where Superman reveals his identity just fell incredibly flat to me- but in all honesty, I don't know what the solution was to make this seem more plausible... One idea might have been for them to have teased the resemblance but had Lois & him deny it in the backstory for years... or changed that story dynamic. Personally, I really felt like it was a weak link in the pilot and would have maybe even worked better if it wasn't a secret domestically to begin with, and still hit similar story beats in other ways... |
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Post by Metallo on Feb 27, 2021 22:07:42 GMT -5
You mean when he revealed his identity to his kids? I thought that was one of the best parts of the pilot. Everyone played it perfectly. Those kids are much better actors than I expected (a lot more believable than the “teens” on Smallville too) and I thought Hoechlin was note perfect as far as how Superman would respond. Not angry yet understanding of their feelings. Just the right mix of emotions. I thought they reacted the way teens would.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 28, 2021 0:13:31 GMT -5
You mean when he revealed his identity to his kids? I thought that was one of the best parts of the pilot. Everyone played it perfectly. Those kids are much better actors than I expected (a lot more believable than the “teens” on Smallville too) and I thought Hoechlin was note perfect as far as how Superman would respond. Not angry yet understanding of their feelings. Just the right mix of emotions. I thought they reacted the way teens would. I respected it, but it highlighted one of the things I never had a problem with, with adults never noticing his disguise with the glasses. I buy it with self-absorbed adults, but for some reason, I wanted to go with it, but it didn't work for me.... it wasn't a deal breaker, but as mentioned, I would have been fine if they found another way to get to the same story beats without them holding the secret from them. But- again, not a deal-breaker. It's not the acting, but my own issues believing the situation for some reason with the dad & kids, I think. |
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Post by Metallo on Feb 28, 2021 9:29:25 GMT -5
It’s one of those things that made perfect sense to me. It’s just the same logic as far as not telling other people he’s close to only expanded to his kids. It’s even worse because he’s even closer to them. There would always be the fear that they’d accidentally give away his secret or be put in danger because of it.
The real problem is how could they not figure it out from one good photograph of Superman? Clark could hide his powers but they see him all time. More than Lois ever did when they first met.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 2, 2021 19:43:21 GMT -5
It’s one of those things that made perfect sense to me. It’s just the same logic as far as not telling other people he’s close to only expanded to his kids. It’s even worse because he’s even closer to them. There would always be the fear that they’d accidentally give away his secret or be put in danger because of it. The real problem is how could they not figure it out from one good photograph of Superman? Clark could hide his powers but they see him all time. More than Lois ever did when they first met. Hmm... To me, it's a bit of a speed bump... but particularly because I thought the rest was SO GOOD in the pilot. But, then again, even Ben Affleck cast as Batman in JL was a speedbump to me, but I still can get over my own issue with it... |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 3, 2021 9:02:32 GMT -5
In this case his hand was forced because one of his kids displayed powers and they found his ship. I think Clark and Lois eventually would have told them but when they were more mature enough to handle it. You know how kids can be.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 4, 2021 20:42:18 GMT -5
In this case his hand was forced because one of his kids displayed powers and they found his ship. I think Clark and Lois eventually would have told them but when they were more mature enough to handle it. You know how kids can be. If memory serves, was there a line that said the kids were 14 years old instead of 20 somethings? 17 sure, but that struck me as a bit odd... (but again, I may have misheard) |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 5, 2021 13:45:31 GMT -5
One of them is 19 or so in real life. Jon I think. The kid playing Jordan is younger. 14 is about right. Any older would be pushing it considering Lois and Clark are near 40 and didn’t have kids right after the met. It’s forgivable after we had a 24 year old playing a 14 or 15 year old on Smallville.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 5, 2021 17:09:52 GMT -5
One of them is 19 or so in real life. Jon I think. The kid playing Jordan is younger. 14 is about right. Any older would be pushing it considering Lois and Clark are near 40 and didn’t have kids right after the met. It’s forgivable after we had a 24 year old playing a 14 or 15 year old on Smallville. I think it's not the age per se but the look.... Tom Holland is close to 30, but looks like he's forever 15 years old. Same with Zendaya, so, I think it's that aspect... |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 5, 2021 18:53:34 GMT -5
One of them is 19 or so in real life. Jon I think. The kid playing Jordan is younger. 14 is about right. Any older would be pushing it considering Lois and Clark are near 40 and didn’t have kids right after the met. It’s forgivable after we had a 24 year old playing a 14 or 15 year old on Smallville. I think it's not the age per se but the look.... Tom Holland is close to 30, but looks like he's forever 15 years old. Same with Zendaya, so, I think it's that aspect... Tom Holland is TWENTY FOUR, Cam! So is Zendaya. He’s still closer to 20 than he is to 30. Not only that but he’s STILL younger than any other previous live action Spider-Man when they started in the role and he’s been doing it for five years! He was still under 20 when he was cast. Looks and looking younger are an issue but if you want it to look the most authentic it’s best to go younger not to mention having more longevity. It’ll be easier for Holland to play younger for longer than Maguire and Garfield did because he is younger. |
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Post by atp on Mar 6, 2021 2:37:27 GMT -5
Ralph Macchio is almost 60, and still looks like a teenager.
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Post by Metallo on Mar 6, 2021 13:38:26 GMT -5
Ralph Macchio is almost 60, and still looks like a teenager. That’s different. He’s some kind of immortal being. Like Ming Na Wen. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 6, 2021 15:07:16 GMT -5
Ralph Macchio is almost 60, and still looks like a teenager. That’s different. He’s some kind of immortal being. Like Ming Na Wen. Very true. Bizzarely, both are cast as martial arts experts, which - they may be great human beings - but I have a hard time believing them as lethal weapons on-screen. |
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Post by dejan on Mar 6, 2021 15:12:20 GMT -5
That’s different. He’s some kind of immortal being. Like Ming Na Wen. Very true. Bizzarely, both are cast as martial arts experts, which - they may be great human beings - but I have a hard time believing them as lethal weapons on-screen. haha I remember seeing the Karate Kid trailer a couple of times before watching Supergirl in 84'. Yes I went to watch Supergirl at least 3 times that summer:) But Karate Kid..great movie. Seriously.....Macchio looked like he was 14 in that flick and he was already 23/24! |
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