J.J. Abrams & Ta-Nehisi Coates Reboot

[crazy_asian_man]

May 10, 2021 21:36:56 GMT -5 Metallo said:

May 10, 2021 16:25:24 GMT -5 dejan said:

I personally am just weary of J.J. Seems like a lovely fellow in interviews(even to the point of being quite humble).
But when he steps behind that camera....or sits in a producer's chair, that humility all but goes out of the window!

James Cameron would probably be the one guy I would like to see tackle a Supes movie.
Every time in the past when Cameron was doubted, he came up with the goods.

Yes Avatar was hardly original , but you still got the feeling it was trying to stand out from the crowd.....and it certainly did financially - lol.
And with regards to whatever sloppy, wishy washy romantic dialogue Winslet and Di Caprio had to spit out in Titanic......I defy anyone to watch that film and not be moved by the sheer scale of the depiction of the tragedy that unfolds in the final 3rd of that flick.....even now....23 years later.

So Cameron would be my personal choice.
But who I am I --lol!

The biggest thing this movie has going against it is JJ Abrams. He’s a creatively bankrupt mimic who can’t stick the landing.

As close as we ever came to seeing Cameron do a superhero movie was Spider-Man. I’m not sure the interest is there for Superman since he’s a Marvel guy at heart. He’d do something interesting but he’s also one do those guys who seems to be more into working with his own material.

I’d give Cameron a lesser known superhero property or let him make his own.

I was GIANTLY disappointed when I'd heard that Cameron wanted to do Spiderman and X-men and couldn't.... because I figured: "NOBODY will do it as well as Cameron"- but Raimi's 2 1/2 Spiderman films are fantastic- particularly Spiderman 2--- and Singer's X-men series may have been uneven- but given how large that series became, at least X2, First Class, DOFP, and Logan are keepers.... they might not have been 1000 percent as close to the comics as I might have wanted- but those X-films kept me riveted in a way I didn't expect and in the end, maybe it turned out the best that all roads ended up with Kevin Feige spearheading the MCU.... which may or may not have happened in an alternate universe if Cameron directed either X-men or Spiderman...

To me, a Cameron film is always a special event.... even if I wish he were more interested in doing superheroes instead of Avatar films.

I agree that he wouldn't be interested in doing Superman. It's really really a shame we couldn't have seen where Singer would have gone with a sequel, even if he only produced it (which actually might have been better if the stress of filming was getting to be too much for him... First Class was fantastic being Singer-produced).

[dejan]

May 11, 2021 7:52:57 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

May 10, 2021 21:36:56 GMT -5 Metallo said:

The biggest thing this movie has going against it is JJ Abrams. He’s a creatively bankrupt mimic who can’t stick the landing.

As close as we ever came to seeing Cameron do a superhero movie was Spider-Man. I’m not sure the interest is there for Superman since he’s a Marvel guy at heart. He’d do something interesting but he’s also one do those guys who seems to be more into working with his own material.

I’d give Cameron a lesser known superhero property or let him make his own.

I was GIANTLY disappointed when I'd heard that Cameron wanted to do Spiderman and X-men and couldn't.... because I figured: "NOBODY will do it as well as Cameron"- but Raimi's 2 1/2 Spiderman films are fantastic- particularly Spiderman 2--- and Singer's X-men series may have been uneven- but given how large that series became, at least X2, First Class, DOFP, and Logan are keepers.... they might not have been 1000 percent as close to the comics as I might have wanted- but those X-films kept me riveted in a way I didn't expect and in the end, maybe it turned out the best that all roads ended up with Kevin Feige spearheading the MCU.... which may or may not have happened in an alternate universe if Cameron directed either X-men or Spiderman...

To me, a Cameron film is always a special event.... even if I wish he were more interested in doing superheroes instead of Avatar films.

I agree that he wouldn't be interested in doing Superman. It's really really a shame we couldn't have seen where Singer would have gone with a sequel, even if he only produced it (which actually might have been better if the stress of filming was getting to be too much for him... First Class was fantastic being Singer-produced).

Who said Cameron is not a fan of Superman films:)

Jon Landau: The best thing with Blu-ray today is that you get quality. It allows the viewers at home to get 100% of what you would get in theaters.



James Cameron: I watched Superman 4 and you can see all the wiring and contact lenses- there’s noting that competes.

www.theyoungfolks.com/film/10744/james-cameron-and-jon-landau-question-and-answer/

....lol

You could see the wires in SIV on VHS!
Still...it feels my heart with joy that the great Jim Cameron took time time to watch SIV on Blu Ray!

[dejan]

@cam and Metallo

Sorry, I think I ended up deflecting attention away from Coates being the new director of Supes movies with my put down of J.J and Jim Cameron hypothesis.

But one thing Cameron does(you could call it the Cameron story telling formula) is that he introduces his protagonists into his stories always, unfailingly, under extreme duress....and just as importantly....he maintains that tension throughout the rest of whichever flick it is.


In Terminator 1:
Kyle saving Sarah in the disco(and quite frankly the rest of the movie-lol).
"Come with me if you want to live!"

In Terminator 2:
Arnold saving John from the T1000 in that Lorry/bike chase sequence(and again for pretty much the rest of the movie!)!

In Aliens:
Ripley mothering Newt(again under extreme conditions).

In Titanic:
Leo saving Rose from suiciding herself off the Stern of the ship:
"I won't let go...now pull yourself up!"

In Avatar:
Netiri saving Jake from those wolf like creatures....and then tutoring him in the extreme ways of the Navi(flying, hunting, riding ect ect)......in fact she saves him again during the fight with Quarich(not sure how you spell his name -lol):

...and so on.

STM also has the meeting of the protagonists under duress predicament..... when Supes saves Lois in the helicopter sequence(and multiple other times in the flick).


What I am accentuating is hardly a revelation....but you would be surprised by how many people miss this simple yet effective story telling technique.

In fact SR and MOS pretty much ignored this powerful element.
In SR, having Lois already be familiar with Supes(despite being saved in that crashing plane sequence) actually detracted from any tension-chemistry between the characters.
The fact that she was almost dismissive of Supes exacerbated this deflationary effect(IMHO).
Ditto for MOS.
Having Lois discover who Supes is/was was actually a pretty good idea.
Problem was , that by the time Supes got to save her from that crashing Kryptonian capsule......it felt flat....because she was already familiar with Supes as a character.
To be fair Supes does in fact save Lois after she is injured by that sentinel in the Kryptonian vessel.....but that scene is way too abbreviated to be effective as a dramatic introduction between our main characters.

So yeah....I think for a new Supes film to be effective......that tension/duress factor that Cameron has mastered in his flicks has to be implemented(in the new Supes movie) for it to work as a dramatic piece.

All my humble opinions of course.  

   

[Metallo]

May 11, 2021 7:52:57 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

May 10, 2021 21:36:56 GMT -5 Metallo said:

The biggest thing this movie has going against it is JJ Abrams. He’s a creatively bankrupt mimic who can’t stick the landing.

As close as we ever came to seeing Cameron do a superhero movie was Spider-Man. I’m not sure the interest is there for Superman since he’s a Marvel guy at heart. He’d do something interesting but he’s also one do those guys who seems to be more into working with his own material.

I’d give Cameron a lesser known superhero property or let him make his own.

I was GIANTLY disappointed when I'd heard that Cameron wanted to do Spiderman and X-men and couldn't.... because I figured: "NOBODY will do it as well as Cameron"- but Raimi's 2 1/2 Spiderman films are fantastic- particularly Spiderman 2--- and Singer's X-men series may have been uneven- but given how large that series became, at least X2, First Class, DOFP, and Logan are keepers.... they might not have been 1000 percent as close to the comics as I might have wanted- but those X-films kept me riveted in a way I didn't expect and in the end, maybe it turned out the best that all roads ended up with Kevin Feige spearheading the MCU.... which may or may not have happened in an alternate universe if Cameron directed either X-men or Spiderman...

To me, a Cameron film is always a special event.... even if I wish he were more interested in doing superheroes instead of Avatar films.

I agree that he wouldn't be interested in doing Superman. It's really really a shame we couldn't have seen where Singer would have gone with a sequel, even if he only produced it (which actually might have been better if the stress of filming was getting to be too much for him... First Class was fantastic being Singer-produced).

I think on a technical level Cameron would have made an incredible film. Probably better than Raimis in a lot of ways despite being years sooner. I think Raimi’s film came at just the right time when CGI was at a level that certain things could be done well. But from Cameron’s treatment it would have been his Spider-Man. Not Marvel’s Spider-Man. Plus Cameron’s take on the material just comes off as awkward and dark. He was trying to have Peters transformation into Spider-man mirror a lot of teenage growing pains and rites of passage. I thought he took some stuff way too far though. If you think Snyder and Burton made some awkward superhero movie moments...

[atp]

Cameron was great at creating CGI villains.

First the T-1000.

And then the iceberg in Titanic.

[Metallo]

May 12, 2021 11:48:10 GMT -5 dejan said:

@cam and Metallo

Sorry, I think I ended up deflecting attention away from Coates being the new director of Supes movies with my put down of J.J and Jim Cameron hypothesis.

But one thing Cameron does(you could call it the Cameron story telling formula) is that he introduces his protagonists into his stories always, unfailingly, under extreme duress....and just as importantly....he maintains that tension throughout the rest of whichever flick it is.


In Terminator 1:
Kyle saving Sarah in the disco(and quite frankly the rest of the movie-lol).
"Come with me if you want to live!"

In Terminator 2:
Arnold saving John from the T1000 in that Lorry/bike chase sequence(and again for pretty much the rest of the movie!)!

In Aliens:
Ripley mothering Newt(again under extreme conditions).

In Titanic:
Leo saving Rose from suiciding herself off the Stern of the ship:
"I won't let go...now pull yourself up!"

In Avatar:
Netiri saving Jake from those wolf like creatures....and then tutoring him in the extreme ways of the Navi(flying, hunting, riding ect ect)......in fact she saves him again during the fight with Quarich(not sure how you spell his name -lol):

...and so on.

STM also has the meeting of the protagonists under duress predicament..... when Supes saves Lois in the helicopter sequence(and multiple other times in the flick).


What I am accentuating is hardly a revelation....but you would be surprised by how many people miss this simple yet effective story telling technique.

In fact SR and MOS pretty much ignored this powerful element.
In SR, having Lois already be familiar with Supes(despite being saved in that crashing plane sequence) actually detracted from any tension-chemistry between the characters.
The fact that she was almost dismissive of Supes exacerbated this deflationary effect(IMHO).
Ditto for MOS.
Having Lois discover who Supes is/was was actually a pretty good idea.
Problem was , that by the time Supes got to save her from that crashing Kryptonian capsule......it felt flat....because she was already familiar with Supes as a character.
To be fair Supes does in fact save Lois after she is injured by that sentinel in the Kryptonian vessel.....but that scene is way too abbreviated to be effective as a dramatic introduction between our main characters.

So yeah....I think for a new Supes film to be effective......that tension/duress factor that Cameron has mastered in his flicks has to be implemented(in the new Supes movie) for it to work as a dramatic piece.

All my humble opinions of course.  

   

With SR like you said it was held back by the premise since they already knew each other. With MOS it was just shoddy writing. The Superman Lois relationship was so poorly handled in MOS across the board. Lots of things don’t make sense. He interview in the interrogation room is just clumsy and her being brought on board the Kryptonian ship made no sense. Zod wants her there. Why?

[crazy_asian_man]

May 12, 2021 12:58:05 GMT -5 Metallo said:

May 11, 2021 7:52:57 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I was GIANTLY disappointed when I'd heard that Cameron wanted to do Spiderman and X-men and couldn't.... because I figured: "NOBODY will do it as well as Cameron"- but Raimi's 2 1/2 Spiderman films are fantastic- particularly Spiderman 2--- and Singer's X-men series may have been uneven- but given how large that series became, at least X2, First Class, DOFP, and Logan are keepers.... they might not have been 1000 percent as close to the comics as I might have wanted- but those X-films kept me riveted in a way I didn't expect and in the end, maybe it turned out the best that all roads ended up with Kevin Feige spearheading the MCU.... which may or may not have happened in an alternate universe if Cameron directed either X-men or Spiderman...

To me, a Cameron film is always a special event.... even if I wish he were more interested in doing superheroes instead of Avatar films.

I agree that he wouldn't be interested in doing Superman. It's really really a shame we couldn't have seen where Singer would have gone with a sequel, even if he only produced it (which actually might have been better if the stress of filming was getting to be too much for him... First Class was fantastic being Singer-produced).

I think on a technical level Cameron would have made an incredible film. Probably better than Raimis in a lot of ways despite being years sooner. I think Raimi’s film came at just the right time when CGI was at a level that certain things could be done well. But from Cameron’s treatment it would have been his Spider-Man. Not Marvel’s Spider-Man. Plus Cameron’s take on the material just comes off as awkward and dark. He was trying to have Peters transformation into Spider-man mirror a lot of teenage growing pains and rites of passage. I thought he took some stuff way too far though. If you think Snyder and Burton made some awkward superhero movie moments...

Are you referring to the 'scriptment' that was out there on the web? I always wondered about the legitimacy of it, but never dove too far into checking it out-

I still would have loved to have seen Cameron's version of it- The rumor was John Cusack as the lead, but who knows? (I guess he would have been okay)-

The main thing that was important to nail impeccably was Uncle Ben's death and Peter's horrible remorse in his hand in it--(the third one that retconned it might have worked but the third one is a whole other discussion)--- and the funeral scene at the end was classic- if the Raimi film was a standalone, then it would have been just fine- but Spiderman 2 was even better than 1 in many ways.....

But I digress- Raimi and Cameron I feel both had a giant personal connection to the material, but it's interesting how you could sense where their passion for the material probably would have overlapped and where they would have diverged.

Raimi has a bit of subversiveness and goofiness to his aesthetics that dovetailed in perfectly especially with slightly off-the wall characters like J. Jonah Jameson and Tobey Maguire's slightly off-kilter version of Peter Parker.

Cameron has a bit of a cold but compelling edge to his films like Terminator 1 & 2 - there's very little 'off the wall' I feel in Cameron's filmography. I think his version of Parker might have been more introspective and a bit gothy even- maybe more like Andrew Garfield- darker than the lighter and innocent Tom Holland version.

In any case, it mostly worked out great.... for two films at least. But- while it's a shame so few franchises make a great trilogy, I guess I should remind myself even getting ONE great film from superhero material isn't a given....

[Metallo]

Yeah. And it’s apparently real. I think Raimis films have a quirkiness that was perfect for Spider-Man. Something Cameron didn’t have. Cameron’s the better filmmaker but Raimi is the more fun filmmaker. The way he used his trademark style in the operating room scene in Spider-Man 2 was perfect.

Raimi is better with down on his luck loser types and freaks. Guys that have rotten luck. See Darkman or Evil Dead. Cameron works best with protagonists who are outcasts or loners but special in some way. Jack from Titanic, The Conners, Ripley in Aliens, etc. there’s some overlap there but I do think Raimi has a better grasp on the average Joe because that’s who he sees himself as and what he sees in his characters. You can tell Cameron knows he’s special and has no problem letting people know it. It’s why he’s rubbed some people the wrong way. He’s got the same initials as a certain messiah as well as his own savior character after all.

[crazy_asian_man]

May 17, 2021 13:22:38 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah. And it’s apparently real. I think Raimis films have a quirkiness that was perfect for Spider-Man. Something Cameron didn’t have. Cameron’s the better filmmaker but Raimi is the more fun filmmaker. The way he used his trademark style in the operating room scene in Spider-Man 2 was perfect.

Raimi is better with down on his luck loser types and freaks. Guys that have rotten luck. See Darkman or Evil Dead. Cameron works best with protagonists who are outcasts or loners but special in some way. Jack from Titanic, The Conners, Ripley in Aliens, etc. there’s some overlap there but I do think Raimi has a better grasp on the average Joe because that’s who he sees himself as and what he sees in his characters. You can tell Cameron knows he’s special and has no problem letting people know it. It’s why he’s rubbed some people the wrong way. He’s got the same initials as a certain messiah as well as his own savior character after all.

Well put!
I agree completely- in the end, Raimi might have been the better fit for the quirkiness that was part of Lee and Ditko's Spiderman.... and Cameron's would have been excellent but darker and most likely not embraced some of the wackiness inherent in Raimi's films.

A Cameron Spiderman might have bent more towards the Sony reboot in terms of tone- speaking of which- for sure, while I was okay with Sony's reboot (a bit)- it lacked so much of the fun and warmth of the Raimi one- that I'm mostly glad that the MCU was able to regain control- but at the same time... part of me does miss having some of what Raimi did to be more comic book accurate in his first two films...