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Post by atp on May 17, 2021 14:55:43 GMT -5
Really? I loved Silva! Probably my favorite villain! Lol When did you last see LTK? The more I watch it, the more I am in awe of Robert Davi as Sanchez. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 17, 2021 14:57:01 GMT -5
Really? I loved Silva! Probably my favorite villain! Lol The only problem I had with Skyfall was it was obviously following the dark Knight trilogy template for some of its story beats. But the director was always up front about that. Loved Silva but hated the tired rehashed “villain gets captured on purpose and has a face to face with the hero behind a cell door/glass wall” idea. Then Star Trek into darkness killed the trope even deader with that scene with Khan. |
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Post by Metallo on May 17, 2021 15:09:37 GMT -5
I don’t think it NEEDED one but they certainly needed to up the action and excitement. The film was less exciting than STM and came off as more dour than any of the Reeve films. I think a proper fight would have helped because audiences expectations have changed. We can probably trace the beginnings of that back to Superman II. I don’t think MOS and Justice League were hurt because of super powered battles but they didn’t work because those battles were overblown cgi spectacle that sucked and failed to pull people in. The fight in MOS became cinematic noise. Doomsday is just a dumb cgi monster. Same with Steppenwolf and his faceless horde of drones. Meanwhile you look at the Avengers films and there’s story and character purpose behind the big cgi action sequences. People got emotionally involved. Thanos is a big cgi character but he’s more interesting than any Zack Snyder character and his performance is driven by a good actor. They also remembered to keep the vulnerable human Element when he fought Cap iron man and Thor. Everyone speculated wether iron man wound die or not. Nobody gave a toss when Superman died in BvS. As for Unbreakable it’s a brilliant deconstruction of the genre. Too bad Night crapped the bed with the ending of Glass. Splits revelation was perfect and I see what he was going for with Glass but the execution was shoddy. Agree totally about Split and Glass. What a wasted opportunity. I only recognise Unbreakable as canon. As for SR, yes it wasn't that thrilling, and yes it felt dour and subdued. But I think that was more to do with the acting,directing, editing and music anf overuse of cgi. Not with the kind of action scenes. SR had the plane rescue, the bank robbery, loads of rescues in Metropolis and more. On paper, each of those scenes should have been amazing, but they were poorly done. Compare the helicopter scene in STM with the underwhelming plane rescue in SR! All the ingredients were there. Just that the cake was badly mixed and half baked. A supervillain fight, I feel, would have been just as dour and meh as the other action scenes already were. My opinion only ! Unbreakable came along five to ten years too early. Casual viewers didn’t get the themes or tropes it was dealing with. Comic fans did. If it had come years later more people would have had a better understanding of what it was trying to do. I think that’s why Split got the momentum behind it to be made and why people were so excited for Glass. Lack of action isn’t the core problem of SR but it’s a symptom of the larger problem though. How dull it is. SR is rightly character driven but it’s got little else around those character moments. The plane rescue was great but it’s the biggest most exciting action sequence in the film and it comes far too soon. Theres another two hours left where nothing else lives up to it and it is downhill from there. Not all of it had to but the ending needed to. Lifting new krypton was boring. No ones on it except Luthors thugs. It’s just a long slow Sequence of him basically lifting a huge rock. STM on the other hand ratcheted up the action and excitement. Donner and co did the opposite by going bigger. Helicopter rescue was great but the movie ends with the rocket chase and the earthquake sequence. That’s how you do it. |
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Post by EnriqueH on May 17, 2021 15:16:19 GMT -5
Really? I loved Silva! Probably my favorite villain! Lol When did you last see LTK? The more I watch it, the more I am in awe of Robert Davi as Sanchez. I’ve always had a love/hate relationship with LTK. As a teenager, I always critiqued it to death. It was the first Bond I saw in theaters and there were things I loved about it but things I didn’t like. Sánchez was a good villain, but I always also saw him as the typical 80s drug lord I saw a thousand times earlier in the decade, including Miami Vice. |
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Post by atp on May 17, 2021 15:46:09 GMT -5
Agree totally about Split and Glass. What a wasted opportunity. I only recognise Unbreakable as canon. As for SR, yes it wasn't that thrilling, and yes it felt dour and subdued. But I think that was more to do with the acting,directing, editing and music anf overuse of cgi. Not with the kind of action scenes. SR had the plane rescue, the bank robbery, loads of rescues in Metropolis and more. On paper, each of those scenes should have been amazing, but they were poorly done. Compare the helicopter scene in STM with the underwhelming plane rescue in SR! All the ingredients were there. Just that the cake was badly mixed and half baked. A supervillain fight, I feel, would have been just as dour and meh as the other action scenes already were. My opinion only ! Unbreakable came along five to ten years too early. Casual viewers didn’t get the themes or tropes it was dealing with. Comic fans did. If it had come years later more people would have had a better understanding of what it was trying to do. I think that’s why Split got the momentum behind it to be made and why people were so excited for Glass. Lack of action isn’t the core problem of SR but it’s a symptom of the larger problem though. How dull it is. SR is rightly character driven but it’s got little else around those character moments. The plane rescue was great but it’s the biggest most exciting action sequence in the film and it comes far too soon. Theres another two hours left where nothing else lives up to it and it is downhill from there. Not all of it had to but the ending needed to. Lifting new krypton was boring. No ones on it except Luthors thugs. It’s just a long slow Sequence of him basically lifting a huge rock. STM on the other hand ratcheted up the action and excitement. Donner and co did the opposite by going bigger. Helicopter rescue was great but the movie ends with the rocket chase and the earthquake sequence. That’s how you do it. Yes Unbreakabke was really ahead of its time. I think it would actually have been better suited to 2018 or so. Interested to see Stallone's new "Samaritan" movie -- that looks like it might be similar. Unbreakable also had the misfortune of following The Sixth Sense. Lots of people were expecting something similar, and came away feeling like it was a disappointing attempt to cash in The Sixth Sense. It's truly a case of a movie being ahead of its time. |
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Post by Metallo on May 17, 2021 16:23:52 GMT -5
Unbreakable came along five to ten years too early. Casual viewers didn’t get the themes or tropes it was dealing with. Comic fans did. If it had come years later more people would have had a better understanding of what it was trying to do. I think that’s why Split got the momentum behind it to be made and why people were so excited for Glass. Lack of action isn’t the core problem of SR but it’s a symptom of the larger problem though. How dull it is. SR is rightly character driven but it’s got little else around those character moments. The plane rescue was great but it’s the biggest most exciting action sequence in the film and it comes far too soon. Theres another two hours left where nothing else lives up to it and it is downhill from there. Not all of it had to but the ending needed to. Lifting new krypton was boring. No ones on it except Luthors thugs. It’s just a long slow Sequence of him basically lifting a huge rock. STM on the other hand ratcheted up the action and excitement. Donner and co did the opposite by going bigger. Helicopter rescue was great but the movie ends with the rocket chase and the earthquake sequence. That’s how you do it. Yes Unbreakabke was really ahead of its time. I think it would actually have been better suited to 2018 or so. Interested to see Stallone's new "Samaritan" movie -- that looks like it might be similar. Unbreakable also had the misfortune of following The Sixth Sense. Lots of people were expecting something similar, and came away feeling like it was a disappointing attempt to cash in The Sixth Sense. It's truly a case of a movie being ahead of its time. The industry and the press built M Night Shyamalan into a big deal way too soon. They were calling him the next Spielberg or the next Hitchcock after Sixth Sense but before he’d fully developed as a filmmaker of that caliber. He also got full of himself because of that and relied too much on his gimmicks. There was a great story years ago about how out of check his ego got when it came to any kind of suggestions. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2021 17:20:41 GMT -5
Really? I loved Silva! Probably my favorite villain! Lol When did you last see LTK? The more I watch it, the more I am in awe of Robert Davi as Sanchez. Agreed! Having the Shakespearian-trained Dalton vs. Davi was a giant cool factor to the movie. While it's not nearly as stylized as I would have liked a Bond film to be, having those two at the center and a (good enough) story makes it very watchable. Davi was highly underrated imo as a character actor... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2021 17:23:28 GMT -5
Yes Unbreakabke was really ahead of its time. I think it would actually have been better suited to 2018 or so. Interested to see Stallone's new "Samaritan" movie -- that looks like it might be similar. Unbreakable also had the misfortune of following The Sixth Sense. Lots of people were expecting something similar, and came away feeling like it was a disappointing attempt to cash in The Sixth Sense. It's truly a case of a movie being ahead of its time. The industry and the press built M Night Shyamalan into a big deal way too soon. They were calling him the next Spielberg or the next Hitchcock after Sixth Sense but before he’d fully developed as a filmmaker of that caliber. He also got full of himself because of that and relied too much on his gimmicks. There was a great story years ago about how out of check his ego got when it came to any kind of suggestions. Agreed.... Sixth Sense was great- but he just got too famous too soon for that and it went to his head, perhaps. On the flip side, I really enjoyed 'Signs' but other than that- It's all been misfires (at least the ones I've sat through). But I guess you just need ONE hit and people can hope you strike a home run again... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2021 17:26:15 GMT -5
Unbreakable came along five to ten years too early. Casual viewers didn’t get the themes or tropes it was dealing with. Comic fans did. If it had come years later more people would have had a better understanding of what it was trying to do. I think that’s why Split got the momentum behind it to be made and why people were so excited for Glass. Lack of action isn’t the core problem of SR but it’s a symptom of the larger problem though. How dull it is. SR is rightly character driven but it’s got little else around those character moments. The plane rescue was great but it’s the biggest most exciting action sequence in the film and it comes far too soon. Theres another two hours left where nothing else lives up to it and it is downhill from there. Not all of it had to but the ending needed to. Lifting new krypton was boring. No ones on it except Luthors thugs. It’s just a long slow Sequence of him basically lifting a huge rock. STM on the other hand ratcheted up the action and excitement. Donner and co did the opposite by going bigger. Helicopter rescue was great but the movie ends with the rocket chase and the earthquake sequence. That’s how you do it. Yes Unbreakabke was really ahead of its time. I think it would actually have been better suited to 2018 or so. Interested to see Stallone's new "Samaritan" movie -- that looks like it might be similar. Unbreakable also had the misfortune of following The Sixth Sense. Lots of people were expecting something similar, and came away feeling like it was a disappointing attempt to cash in The Sixth Sense. It's truly a case of a movie being ahead of its time. Hmmm..... for me, it was partially the type of film that was advertised (not as a superhero film, but a suspense/horror)- the other half was cynical Bruce Willis (to me) cast as the one going through all the unbelievable changes. If it had been another actor, I might have went with it more... but even on a rewatch, I just didn't fall anywhere close to in love with it like friends of mine have. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2021 17:38:07 GMT -5
Agree totally about Split and Glass. What a wasted opportunity. I only recognise Unbreakable as canon. As for SR, yes it wasn't that thrilling, and yes it felt dour and subdued. But I think that was more to do with the acting,directing, editing and music anf overuse of cgi. Not with the kind of action scenes. SR had the plane rescue, the bank robbery, loads of rescues in Metropolis and more. On paper, each of those scenes should have been amazing, but they were poorly done. Compare the helicopter scene in STM with the underwhelming plane rescue in SR! All the ingredients were there. Just that the cake was badly mixed and half baked. A supervillain fight, I feel, would have been just as dour and meh as the other action scenes already were. My opinion only ! Unbreakable came along five to ten years too early. Casual viewers didn’t get the themes or tropes it was dealing with. Comic fans did. If it had come years later more people would have had a better understanding of what it was trying to do. I think that’s why Split got the momentum behind it to be made and why people were so excited for Glass. Lack of action isn’t the core problem of SR but it’s a symptom of the larger problem though. How dull it is. SR is rightly character driven but it’s got little else around those character moments. The plane rescue was great but it’s the biggest most exciting action sequence in the film and it comes far too soon. Theres another two hours left where nothing else lives up to it and it is downhill from there. Not all of it had to but the ending needed to. Lifting new krypton was boring. No ones on it except Luthors thugs. It’s just a long slow Sequence of him basically lifting a huge rock. STM on the other hand ratcheted up the action and excitement. Donner and co did the opposite by going bigger. Helicopter rescue was great but the movie ends with the rocket chase and the earthquake sequence. That’s how you do it. With STM vs. SR: I think the thing is- the main arc is similar (one level) to Wrath of Khan--- the main character is a bit depressed by his place in life- but then finds hope in life at the end from the son he never knew he had and the unexpected realization that he did have a family he never knew about. HOWEVER- with Wrath of Khan- #1: You also had the fiery villain with Khan to juice up the energy every time you ran into him- Luthor seems best as a 'middleman' at least as was used by Donner's version. A hunger for real estate isn't all that interesting no matter how you slice it... #2: You had other characters subplots and arcs that weren't about melancholy woven in: the eager new recruit and an interesting dynamic with Saavik/Spock, the continued bromance with Spock/McCoy/Kirk, you had the exciting starship chess-game like battles, the concept of project Genesis (coincidentally similar to but more interesting than the Krypton- reforming crystals in SR)- There was a lot of OTHER things going on besides just Kirk and his need to get past his middle age depression- so there (imo) wasn't anything wrong with that being an underlying problem to get resolved--- AS LONG AS - there was other interesting things going on to make up for it! In that regard... an interesting super-powered villain might have helped take up the slack- not just a mindless rock, but an actual interesting character to be a counterbalance to Supes I think would have helped give a different extra energy just as the multiple arcs in Wrath of Kahn did. Lex and his cohorts just were not that interesting as a 'b' plot on their own and needed another component- hence--- not any superhero battle, but an interesting one with an interesting supporting villain I feel might have filled that bill! |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 17, 2021 18:58:12 GMT -5
Unbreakable came along five to ten years too early. Casual viewers didn’t get the themes or tropes it was dealing with. Comic fans did. If it had come years later more people would have had a better understanding of what it was trying to do. I think that’s why Split got the momentum behind it to be made and why people were so excited for Glass. Lack of action isn’t the core problem of SR but it’s a symptom of the larger problem though. How dull it is. SR is rightly character driven but it’s got little else around those character moments. The plane rescue was great but it’s the biggest most exciting action sequence in the film and it comes far too soon. Theres another two hours left where nothing else lives up to it and it is downhill from there. Not all of it had to but the ending needed to. Lifting new krypton was boring. No ones on it except Luthors thugs. It’s just a long slow Sequence of him basically lifting a huge rock. STM on the other hand ratcheted up the action and excitement. Donner and co did the opposite by going bigger. Helicopter rescue was great but the movie ends with the rocket chase and the earthquake sequence. That’s how you do it. With STM vs. SR: I think the thing is- the main arc is similar (one level) to Wrath of Khan--- the main character is a bit depressed by his place in life- but then finds hope in life at the end from the son he never knew he had and the unexpected realization that he did have a family he never knew about. HOWEVER- with Wrath of Khan- #1: You also had the fiery villain with Khan to juice up the energy every time you ran into him- Luthor seems best as a 'middleman' at least as was used by Donner's version. A hunger for real estate isn't all that interesting no matter how you slice it... #2: You had other characters subplots and arcs that weren't about melancholy woven in: the eager new recruit and an interesting dynamic with Saavik/Spock, the continued bromance with Spock/McCoy/Kirk, you had the exciting starship chess-game like battles, the concept of project Genesis (coincidentally similar to but more interesting than the Krypton- reforming crystals in SR)- There was a lot of OTHER things going on besides just Kirk and his need to get past his middle age depression- so there (imo) wasn't anything wrong with that being an underlying problem to get resolved--- AS LONG AS - there was other interesting things going on to make up for it! In that regard... an interesting super-powered villain might have helped take up the slack- not just a mindless rock, but an actual interesting character to be a counterbalance to Supes I think would have helped give a different extra energy just as the multiple arcs in Wrath of Kahn did. Lex and his cohorts just were not that interesting as a 'b' plot on their own and needed another component- hence--- not any superhero battle, but an interesting one with an interesting supporting villain I feel might have filled that bill! Superman Returns is more Star Trek: The Motion Picture and less Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. TMP was deep and introspective with with the main characters wrestling with personal dilemmas... but dull. No real space battles either. TWOK carried over what worked from the series. It had the heart and passion of TOS while still being a strong character piece. SR needed its own TWOK style sequel. That’s what Singer said he was going to deliver but we’ll never know. MOS was Star Trek 09: a big loud dumb cgi action reboot that killed the direction they’d been going in in three movies with the second film being a total clusterf*ck that they couldn’t recover from. Zod was Nero angry that his planet was destroyed. Super smart bag guy who didn’t live up to the original movie version (Luthor/Khan) set in motion a series events that led to the hero dying only for him to be revived later. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2021 21:30:09 GMT -5
With STM vs. SR: I think the thing is- the main arc is similar (one level) to Wrath of Khan--- the main character is a bit depressed by his place in life- but then finds hope in life at the end from the son he never knew he had and the unexpected realization that he did have a family he never knew about. HOWEVER- with Wrath of Khan- #1: You also had the fiery villain with Khan to juice up the energy every time you ran into him- Luthor seems best as a 'middleman' at least as was used by Donner's version. A hunger for real estate isn't all that interesting no matter how you slice it... #2: You had other characters subplots and arcs that weren't about melancholy woven in: the eager new recruit and an interesting dynamic with Saavik/Spock, the continued bromance with Spock/McCoy/Kirk, you had the exciting starship chess-game like battles, the concept of project Genesis (coincidentally similar to but more interesting than the Krypton- reforming crystals in SR)- There was a lot of OTHER things going on besides just Kirk and his need to get past his middle age depression- so there (imo) wasn't anything wrong with that being an underlying problem to get resolved--- AS LONG AS - there was other interesting things going on to make up for it! In that regard... an interesting super-powered villain might have helped take up the slack- not just a mindless rock, but an actual interesting character to be a counterbalance to Supes I think would have helped give a different extra energy just as the multiple arcs in Wrath of Kahn did. Lex and his cohorts just were not that interesting as a 'b' plot on their own and needed another component- hence--- not any superhero battle, but an interesting one with an interesting supporting villain I feel might have filled that bill! Superman Returns is more Star Trek: The Motion Picture and less Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. TMP was deep and introspective with with the main characters wrestling with personal dilemmas... but dull. No real space battles either. TWOK carried over what worked from the series. It had the heart and passion of TOS while still being a strong character piece. SR needed its own TWOK style sequel. That’s what Singer said he was going to deliver but we’ll never know. MOS was Star Trek 09: a big loud dumb cgi action reboot that killed the direction they’d been going in in three movies with the second film being a total clusterf*ck that they couldn’t recover from. Zod was Nero angry that his planet was destroyed. Super smart bag guy who didn’t live up to the original movie version (Luthor/Khan) set in motion a series events that led to the hero dying only for him to be revived later. True- in spirit most of SR was introspective- and closer to STTMP- and needed another element to balance out the (Pretty much) mid-life crisis story of SR.... I didn't feel that the mid-life crisis story was the problem- but for a superhero film or a film that doesn't want to be primarily with that melancholy tone, one critic said that it was a good movie- just not a good superhero movie, and I can understand where they were coming from. |
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Post by EnriqueH on May 18, 2021 7:20:39 GMT -5
I want to see MOS again. Haven’t seen it since the theaters and want to enjoy it. I recently saw the theatrical Justice League and enjoyed Cavill in the role a little more the third go around.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 19, 2021 22:17:30 GMT -5
I want to see MOS again. Haven’t seen it since the theaters and want to enjoy it. I recently saw the theatrical Justice League and enjoyed Cavill in the role a little more the third go around. I actually thought Cavill was ok as Supes- but it was the script (and direction) that let him down... but, would prefer Routh if down to the two... |
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Post by EnriqueH on May 20, 2021 14:13:23 GMT -5
Cavill absolutely has the look of Superman.
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atp
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Post by atp on May 21, 2021 7:50:20 GMT -5
Cavill absolutely has the look of Superman. Can't argue with that. I was really excited by some of the publicity photos that we saw before the release.  Makes it even more disappointing that MoS was such crap. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 21, 2021 9:11:37 GMT -5
Cavill absolutely has the look of Superman. Can't argue with that. I was really excited by some of the publicity photos that we saw before the release. Makes it even more disappointing that MoS was such crap. Well..the muscle suit certainly helps. I still laugh at the people who used to think he was ALL natural in the costume. Cavill has a great physique but it was accentuated by the costume. |
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Post by Metallo on May 21, 2021 9:11:53 GMT -5
Cavill absolutely has the look of Superman. A shame he doesn’t have the range of personality. The looks are easy to find especially in Hollywood. When you’ve got someone who has both thats when it’s really something remarkable. |
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Post by atp on May 21, 2021 10:58:47 GMT -5
Pretty sure he was taking steroids as well.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 24, 2021 0:03:06 GMT -5
Pretty sure he was taking steroids as well. Hmn... well- I think ALL the actors playing superheroes are taking steroids... |
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Post by atp on May 24, 2021 1:22:03 GMT -5
Pretty sure he was taking steroids as well. Hmn... well- I think ALL the actors playing superheroes are taking steroids... All actors playing ANY physical roles are taking steroids and/or other drugs |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 24, 2021 12:05:32 GMT -5
The time to achieve those kinds of physiques just isn’t there for movie shoots so yeah most of these guys are taking shortcuts. It’s movies so I’ve got no problems with that but I do have a problem when anyone is adamant that they did it clean. They know there’s a stigma there and getting in that kind of shape naturally is more impressive. It still takes hard work PED’s or not but for so many to these actors to say with a straight face that they never used any roids or HGH is ridiculous.
Even when you look at the Rock who has trained for years, was an athlete going back to college football, and probably has a genetic leg up...there’s no way he’s natural. He’s put the time in to build and maintain a great physique but he’s gone well beyond what’s attainable naturally. For pain and gain and now black Adam he looks freakish.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 24, 2021 12:12:17 GMT -5
Pretty sure he was taking steroids as well. Testosterone replacement and growth hormone might also explain why his hairline has all but tapped out. He’s an endomorph so it’s easier for him to put on size but he’s looked freakishly big compared to most actors recently. He’s put in the time and work but when you look at competitive bodybuilders who’ve admitted they’ve used there’s no way Cavill isn’t on something. And the older they get it’s even more suspect. Look at Jackman. He was probably glad to stop playing Wolverine because he was worried his heart would explode from all the stuff he was taking. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 24, 2021 15:56:29 GMT -5
Pretty sure he was taking steroids as well. Testosterone replacement and growth hormone might also explain why his hairline has all but tapped out. He’s an endomorph so it’s easier for him to put on size but he’s looked freakishly big compared to most actors recently. He’s put in the time and work but when you look at competitive bodybuilders who’ve admitted they’ve used there’s no way Cavill isn’t on something. And the older they get it’s even more suspect. Look at Jackman. He was probably glad to stop playing Wolverine because he was worried his heart would explode from all the stuff he was taking. What's a little funny to me is all the work they go through or the health they put at risk.... only to have their costumes end up being partly (or more) all done on the computer! |
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Post by Metallo on May 24, 2021 16:15:06 GMT -5
I guess part of it is they want to keep the illusion that its “all them” filling out the suit but also for those shirtless scenes. It might also be part of the mental process of getting into character. I respect the dedication for wanting to get as close to the superhero physique as possible but by that point most of that muscle is for show not for go. You don’t have to look like that to be able to meet the physical requirements for things like stunts and fight scenes.
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