Lauren Schuler-Donner comments on RIchard Donner's passing

[crazy_asian_man]

deadline.com/2021/07/lauren-shuler-donner-richard-donner-great-man-1234786437/

[Metallo]

I read that earlier and the outpouring of love and admiration for Donner is incredibly moving. Still sad that he’s gone but it’s been something to see so many positive comments and memories about the man. Really shows what kind of impact he made on people not just as a filmmaker but as a person.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 8, 2021 20:57:01 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I read that earlier and the outpouring of love and admiration for Donner is incredibly moving. Still sad that he’s gone but it’s been something to see so many positive comments and memories about the man. Really shows what kind of impact he made on people not just as a filmmaker but as a person.

I'm happily suprised that there haven't been awful folks popping out of the woodwork to make the sadness even worse.
I still think, though, it's odd that Richard Lester hasn't made any statements that I know of, even if only a sentence or two.

[Metallo]

Jul 9, 2021 1:36:41 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Jul 8, 2021 20:57:01 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I read that earlier and the outpouring of love and admiration for Donner is incredibly moving. Still sad that he’s gone but it’s been something to see so many positive comments and memories about the man. Really shows what kind of impact he made on people not just as a filmmaker but as a person.

I'm happily suprised that there haven't been awful folks popping out of the woodwork to make the sadness even worse.
I still think, though, it's odd that Richard Lester hasn't made any statements that I know of, even if only a sentence or two.

Not sure why it's so odd. If anything I’d find it more odd these days if Lester did say anything to the press on his own without being contacted. How often has Richard Lester made a statement on anything (especially anything Superman related) in the past 20 or 30 years? I can't think of too many times. Did he even offer to participate in or contribute to the DVD releases of his Superman movies in 2001 or 2006? Seems like he had no interest.

Did he comment on Sean Connery passing because he worked with him? That’s Sean f***in Connery and as far as I know no statement ever came out. About the only thing Lester has really talked about in the last few decades has been his work with the Beatles unless he's specifically pressed on something.

Maybe if someone reached out to him for comment but how many outlets even want to reach out to him or even think about it? He's not exactly a high profile name to the general public right now. He hasn't been relevant in years…decades even. When most people think of Superman the movie (which is mostly the Superman movie Donner is being lauded for) we think of the primary players involved with it. I get the cast and even the producers stepping forward but Lester was a replacement for a second film.

That's not even getting into questions of his health. The guy is pushing 90. He may not be able to comment or feel like it. A lot of these long familiar names and faces are older and may have deteriorated physically and mentally since we last saw them. Most want their privacy at such a late stage in life and retreat from any kind of public interaction. Just because they’re still alive doesn’t mean they’re in any condition or have any desire to let the public see or hear from them.

[crazy_asian_man]

I think the thing is- with Superman, it exploded Donner's profile like never before- right after the Omen became a big hit.

For Lester, riding on the coattails and stealing Superman II resseurected his career.... briefly.

So the two movies had big parts in both of their lives. I figured Lester's silence was either narcissm or shame over what he had done to Donner's work for all those years ... but- then again, 90 years old.... I'm glad that at least Ilya Salkind and Donner had what looked like an amicable-enough reunion. Also, if Donner felt okay enough with the Donner cut before his passing, that there's that.

At the same time- Donner was excited and thrilled to be looking ahead to directing Lethal Weapon V with his old friends- he had to be in good spirits with something to look forward to, versus many 90 year olds who are forgotten in old folks homes (I know a number of them sadly).

I do wonder a thought: wouldn't it be nice if Speilberg stepped in to direct Lethal Weapon 5 in a tribute to Donner?

[Metallo]

Jul 9, 2021 11:15:41 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I think the thing is- with Superman, it exploded Donner's profile like never before- right after the Omen became a big hit.

For Lester, riding on the coattails and stealing Superman II resseurected his career.... briefly.

So the two movies had big parts in both of their lives. I figured Lester's silence was either narcissm or shame over what he had done to Donner's work for all those years ... but- then again, 90 years old.... I'm glad that at least Ilya Salkind and Donner had what looked like an amicable-enough reunion. Also, if Donner felt okay enough with the Donner cut before his passing, that there's that.

At the same time- Donner was excited and thrilled to be looking ahead to directing Lethal Weapon V with his old friends- he had to be in good spirits with something to look forward to, versus many 90 year olds who are forgotten in old folks homes (I know a number of them sadly).

I do wonder a thought: wouldn't it be nice if Speilberg stepped in to direct Lethal Weapon 5 in a tribute to Donner?

You’re assuming Lester cares enough about any of that the way the fans do. Enough to make any kind of public statement on his own. It’s not the same for him as it is for us for a lot of reasons. I don’t think it was narcissism and/or shame especially if Lester hasn’t kept up with the public opinion or perception of the fandom. I think he just doesn’t give a f*** and is perfectly fine living his golden years cut off from the industry and the online media that covered all the ins and outs of the Donner/Lester situation.

For him all that was mostly about a job he did 40 years ago. Sure he got on well with some people he worked with but he’s never seemed to have felt the same way about working on the Superman franchise as Donner did. It was a gig. It’s not like he and Donner were absolute best friends either. I’m sure he probably feels bad the guy died but he probably feels that way about a lot of people he’s acquainted with in the film industry that have died and he didn’t say anything then either.

If anything he might feel like popping up now of all times might look a little disingenuous to some. I think if anyone is interested in what Richard Lester has to say they’re going to have to take the initiative and contact him about it. That’s if anyone cares enough to make the effort. I think fans like us would do that first before the Hollywood Reporter or Variety would because like I said to the casual person Lester hasn’t been relevant in decades and has kept a low profile.

Someone like Ilya Salkind is different for a lot of reasons and he did say something. It’s people like Joel Silver or executives at WB who I wonder about. People who had serious long term connections to Donner. If they haven’t said anything yet it’ll be interesting to see if and when they do.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 9, 2021 16:01:05 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Jul 9, 2021 11:15:41 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I think the thing is- with Superman, it exploded Donner's profile like never before- right after the Omen became a big hit.

For Lester, riding on the coattails and stealing Superman II resseurected his career.... briefly.

So the two movies had big parts in both of their lives. I figured Lester's silence was either narcissm or shame over what he had done to Donner's work for all those years ... but- then again, 90 years old.... I'm glad that at least Ilya Salkind and Donner had what looked like an amicable-enough reunion. Also, if Donner felt okay enough with the Donner cut before his passing, that there's that.

At the same time- Donner was excited and thrilled to be looking ahead to directing Lethal Weapon V with his old friends- he had to be in good spirits with something to look forward to, versus many 90 year olds who are forgotten in old folks homes (I know a number of them sadly).

I do wonder a thought: wouldn't it be nice if Speilberg stepped in to direct Lethal Weapon 5 in a tribute to Donner?

You’re assuming Lester cares enough about any of that the way the fans do. Enough to make any kind of public statement on his own. It’s not the same for him as it is for us for a lot of reasons. I don’t think it was narcissism and/or shame especially if Lester hasn’t kept up with the public opinion or perception of the fandom. I think he just doesn’t give a f*** and is perfectly fine living his golden years cut off from the industry and the online media that covered all the ins and outs of the Donner/Lester situation.

For him all that was mostly about a job he did 40 years ago. Sure he got on well with some people he worked with but he’s never seemed to have felt the same way about working on the Superman franchise as Donner did. It was a gig. It’s not like he and Donner were absolute best friends either. I’m sure he probably feels bad the guy died but he probably feels that way about a lot of people he’s acquainted with in the film industry that have died and he didn’t say anything then either.

If anything he might feel like popping up now of all times might look a little disingenuous to some. I think if anyone is interested in what Richard Lester has to say they’re going to have to take the initiative and contact him about it. That’s if anyone cares enough to make the effort. I think fans like us would do that first before the Hollywood Reporter or Variety would because like I said to the casual person Lester hasn’t been relevant in decades and has kept a low profile.

Someone like Ilya Salkind is different for a lot of reasons and he did say something. It’s people like Joel Silver or executives at WB who I wonder about. People who had serious long term connections to Donner. If they haven’t said anything yet it’ll be interesting to see if and when they do.

It's hard to imagine a director treating things as just a gig. If Lester was a point and shoot director (and maybe part of me wishes he was)- then he wouldn't have made all those changes on SII- and if he reshot everything from the ground up and took credit, that would be different- but his knowingly taking the lions share of credit for great work the first guy did has always made me irritated at the whole situation from the get go.

But..... you're a thousand percent right - if at a certain age, a lot of things just don't matter. If he wanted to apologize or anything else, he had more than enough opportunities to in the past. I wouldn't dance on Lester's grave if he passed away tomorrow, but I would not feel nearly the same amount of loss as I do with Dick Donner passing.

[dejan]

@cam and metallo

I had to search hard but I managed to find 2 relatively recent interviews(2014 and 2015) where Lester spoke a little about Superman.
When you see these, I  think it's gonna piss you guys off at how flippant Lester is with regards to the Supes franchise.
Main take home points are that it indeed was a "gig", a favour to the Salkinds, and in Lester's words, that apparently, if he did not direct/complete II , the whole project would have terminated there and then. Wow.
Interestingly, Lester  says he was also offered STM way back at the beginning, and turned it down because it was not his thing. Wow.

goto 6:40 in video below:




goto 1:50 in video below:

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 10, 2021 6:56:51 GMT -5 dejan said:

@cam and metallo

I had to search hard but I managed to find 2 relatively recent interviews(2014 and 2015) where Lester spoke a little about Superman.
When you see these, I  think it's gonna piss you guys off at how flippant Lester is with regards to the Supes franchise.
Main take home points are that it indeed was a "gig", a favour to the Salkinds, and in Lester's words, that apparently, if he did not direct/complete II , the whole project would have terminated there and then. Wow.
Interestingly, Lester  says he was also offered STM way back at the beginning, and turned it down because it was not his thing. Wow.

goto 6:40 in video below:




goto 1:50 in video below:

Thanks for sharing--- especially as I now don't feel guilty on slamming his behavior on these movies for all these years!
So... yep, he was an insensitive prick. Called it!

I am super-skeptical on the project being terminated then and there if Lester didn't pick it up - STM at the time was such a gigantic win for WB that I could see WB offering a small fortune for the remaining footage and then pumping money in to complete it and get Donner back.

[atp]

Jul 10, 2021 6:56:51 GMT -5 dejan said:

@cam and metallo

I had to search hard but I managed to find 2 relatively recent interviews(2014 and 2015) where Lester spoke a little about Superman.
When you see these, I  think it's gonna piss you guys off at how flippant Lester is with regards to the Supes franchise.
Main take home points are that it indeed was a "gig", a favour to the Salkinds, and in Lester's words, that apparently, if he did not direct/complete II , the whole project would have terminated there and then. Wow.
Interestingly, Lester  says he was also offered STM way back at the beginning, and turned it down because it was not his thing. Wow.

goto 6:40 in video below:




goto 1:50 in video below:

Wow, his attitude is just totally wrong for Superman. Listening to that, I am surprised Superman 3 didn't turn out worse.

His approach of showing things "from behind the scenes" in order to poke fun at them has a place. But not with Superman, and certainly not in the wake of an epic like STM.

His style seems fitting for something like True Lies.

[crown]

Maybe now Lester will come out of the woodwork and offer to direct Goonies 2?

[crazy_asian_man]

Actually, Chris Reeve could have gotten rid of Lester for Superman III- as he had script and director approval, but I don't think his story sense was sharp enough to realize it was not a great script and I assume he might have felt that he wouldn't have to worry if he was going to be present for the majority of the shooting.

But- yeah- much like David Goyer who once said on camera he was the wrong person for Superman.... neither Goyer nor Lester should have done so if they knew they were wrong for it!

[atp]

Jul 11, 2021 11:39:58 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Actually, Chris Reeve could have gotten rid of Lester for Superman III- as he had script and director approval, but I don't think his story sense was sharp enough to realize it was not a great script and I assume he might have felt that he wouldn't have to worry if he was going to be present for the majority of the shooting.

Reeve wasn't a good judge of scripts. Look at S4

[crazy_asian_man]

I’m one of the few who actually liked the original script- it’s the budget and execution tied together I felt was a fail. Sydney Furie’s heart seemed in the right place but the slashed budget and having some members of the cast a little too old by then to play things a certain way hurt. The theatrical chopping down of the story to incomprehension was the final nail in the coffin I think.

[Kamdan]

Hearing Lester speak briefly about Superman proves the often brought up point that he was was too sophisticated for such a task. The superhero genre isn’t fit for a thoughtful director, who in this case asked questions about the expensive apartment and clothing Lois Lane owns. He know the reality of the situation is that those things are out of the price range for a reporter. He probably questioned to Donner about the “verisimilitude” of that and was ignored, but a common criticism from critics said pointed out that fallacy.

What Lester meant by if he didn’t take over the movie would fall apart wasn’t so much a self boasting statement but was likely in regard to being aware of all of the complicated methods of achieving the flying effects. It would have taken way too much time to bring in another director who had no clue how it all worked.

Lester was indeed a bad choice to take over Donner’s sensibilities and every director will tell you the most insulting thing you can say to them is to emulate someone else’s work. Everyone was probably concerned over the Metropolis battle being too terrifying under Donner’s direction and Lester was told to lighten it up and that’s where the gags came in. We all saw how it turned out in Man of Steel where we saw how really terrifying and not triumphant it is to see a city leveled off by super powered beings.

[dejan]

Jul 12, 2021 16:11:32 GMT -5 Kamdan said:

Hearing Lester speak briefly about Superman proves the often brought up point that he was was too sophisticated for such a task. The superhero genre isn’t fit for a thoughtful director, who in this case asked questions about the expensive apartment and clothing Lois Lane owns. He know the reality of the situation is that those things are out of the price range for a reporter. He probably questioned to Donner about the “verisimilitude” of that and was ignored, but a common criticism from critics said pointed out that fallacy.

What Lester meant by if he didn’t take over the movie would fall apart wasn’t so much a self boasting statement but was likely in regard to being aware of all of the complicated methods of achieving the flying effects. It would have taken way too much time to bring in another director who had no clue how it all worked.

Lester was indeed a bad choice to take over Donner’s sensibilities and every director will tell you the most insulting thing you can say to them is to emulate someone else’s work. Everyone was probably concerned over the Metropolis battle being too terrifying under Donner’s direction and Lester was told to lighten it up and that’s where the gags came in. We all saw how it turned out in Man of Steel where we saw how really terrifying and not triumphant it is to see a city leveled off by super powered beings.

Totally agree with your observation.

This is a nice article that tries to disentangle the complex and seemingly contradictory knots that Lester wound round his interpretation of Supes.

www.filminquiry.com/beginners-guide-richard-lester-director/

[Metallo]

Jul 9, 2021 23:19:52 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

It's hard to imagine a director treating things as just a gig. If Lester was a point and shoot director (and maybe part of me wishes he was)- then he wouldn't have made all those changes on SII- and if he reshot everything from the ground up and took credit, that would be different- but his knowingly taking the lions share of credit for great work the first guy did has always made me irritated at the whole situation from the get go.

But..... you're a thousand percent right - if at a certain age, a lot of things just don't matter. If he wanted to apologize or anything else, he had more than enough opportunities to in the past. I wouldn't dance on Lester's grave if he passed away tomorrow, but I would not feel nearly the same amount of loss as I do with vagina Donner passing.

Not hard for me to imagine. Especially if they done care for the material and are just doing it to get paid. Despite working on two Superman movies and those being some of the first things mentioned in his obit one day because it’s the work younger people know most Superman isn’t going to be the biggest part of Lester’s legacy. I think he’s fine with that too.

[Metallo]

Jul 10, 2021 6:56:51 GMT -5 dejan said:

@cam and metallo

I had to search hard but I managed to find 2 relatively recent interviews(2014 and 2015) where Lester spoke a little about Superman.
When you see these, I  think it's gonna piss you guys off at how flippant Lester is with regards to the Supes franchise.
Main take home points are that it indeed was a "gig", a favour to the Salkinds, and in Lester's words, that apparently, if he did not direct/complete II , the whole project would have terminated there and then. Wow.
Interestingly, Lester  says he was also offered STM way back at the beginning, and turned it down because it was not his thing. Wow.

goto 6:40 in video below:




goto 1:50 in video below:

It’s disappointing but not surprising so it doesn’t piss me off at all. Lester’s always come off that way. Just supports what I was saying: he saw working on those movies as a gig. He never seemed right for Superman because of the way he saw the material.

[Metallo]

Jul 11, 2021 11:39:58 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Actually, Chris Reeve could have gotten rid of Lester for Superman III- as he had script and director approval, but I don't think his story sense was sharp enough to realize it was not a great script and I assume he might have felt that he wouldn't have to worry if he was going to be present for the majority of the shooting.

But- yeah- much like David Goyer who once said on camera he was the wrong person for Superman.... neither Goyer nor Lester should have done so if they knew they were wrong for it!

Goyer simply saw the chance at a huge paycheck and a high position and level of influence within WB. He’s wanted to be the next big producer in tv for years but most of what he touches fails. Lester is at least a talented filmmaker. Like you said wrong for Superman. Goyer a poor screen writer. He’s more of an ideas guy.

[Metallo]

Jul 12, 2021 11:13:11 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I’m one of the few who actually liked the original script- it’s the budget and execution tied together I felt was a fail. Sydney Furie’s heart seemed in the right place but the slashed budget and having some members of the cast a little too old by then to play things a certain way hurt. The theatrical chopping down of the story to incomprehension was the final nail in the coffin I think.

Superman IV, even for today, would be too ambitious. It could be done know but it would cost BVS money to be done properly. Globus and Golan bit off way more than they could chew.

[Metallo]

Jul 12, 2021 16:11:32 GMT -5 Kamdan said:

Hearing Lester speak briefly about Superman proves the often brought up point that he was was too sophisticated for such a task. The superhero genre isn’t fit for a thoughtful director, who in this case asked questions about the expensive apartment and clothing Lois Lane owns. He know the reality of the situation is that those things are out of the price range for a reporter. He probably questioned to Donner about the “verisimilitude” of that and was ignored, but a common criticism from critics said pointed out that fallacy.

What Lester meant by if he didn’t take over the movie would fall apart wasn’t so much a self boasting statement but was likely in regard to being aware of all of the complicated methods of achieving the flying effects. It would have taken way too much time to bring in another director who had no clue how it all worked.

Lester was indeed a bad choice to take over Donner’s sensibilities and every director will tell you the most insulting thing you can say to them is to emulate someone else’s work. Everyone was probably concerned over the Metropolis battle being too terrifying under Donner’s direction and Lester was told to lighten it up and that’s where the gags came in. We all saw how it turned out in Man of Steel where we saw how really terrifying and not triumphant it is to see a city leveled off by super powered beings.

Except for the part where the guy right in the middle of it should have been most horrified. That’s why despite all the carnage it lacked any real emotional impact and came off like two video game characters fighting.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 13, 2021 13:25:21 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Jul 12, 2021 16:11:32 GMT -5 Kamdan said:

Hearing Lester speak briefly about Superman proves the often brought up point that he was was too sophisticated for such a task. The superhero genre isn’t fit for a thoughtful director, who in this case asked questions about the expensive apartment and clothing Lois Lane owns. He know the reality of the situation is that those things are out of the price range for a reporter. He probably questioned to Donner about the “verisimilitude” of that and was ignored, but a common criticism from critics said pointed out that fallacy.

What Lester meant by if he didn’t take over the movie would fall apart wasn’t so much a self boasting statement but was likely in regard to being aware of all of the complicated methods of achieving the flying effects. It would have taken way too much time to bring in another director who had no clue how it all worked.

Lester was indeed a bad choice to take over Donner’s sensibilities and every director will tell you the most insulting thing you can say to them is to emulate someone else’s work. Everyone was probably concerned over the Metropolis battle being too terrifying under Donner’s direction and Lester was told to lighten it up and that’s where the gags came in. We all saw how it turned out in Man of Steel where we saw how really terrifying and not triumphant it is to see a city leveled off by super powered beings.

Except for the part where the guy right in the middle of it should have been most horrified. That’s why despite all the carnage it lacked any real emotional impact and came off like two video game characters fighting.

ABSOLUTELY.
Beyond the spectacle that we missed by not having Donner stay on for that Metropolis battle--- we also missed all the emotional dynamics that we would have seen from all four characters (hinted at by Zod's spectacular scream when Superman shows up & a few seconds in the FOS at the end)- pushed to their limit in the final battle emotionally.

[Metallo]

Jul 13, 2021 20:16:38 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Jul 13, 2021 13:25:21 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Except for the part where the guy right in the middle of it should have been most horrified. That’s why despite all the carnage it lacked any real emotional impact and came off like two video game characters fighting.

ABSOLUTELY.
Beyond the spectacle that we missed by not having Donner stay on for that Metropolis battle--- we also missed all the emotional dynamics that we would have seen from all four characters (hinted at by Zod's spectacular scream when Superman shows up & a few seconds in the FOS at the end)- pushed to their limit in the final battle emotionally.

I’m talking about the battle at the end of MOS not Superman II. Superman II’s big super fight in metropolis did try to have some human stakes and a Superman aware of and concerned over the human suffering around him.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 13, 2021 21:35:27 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Jul 13, 2021 20:16:38 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

ABSOLUTELY.
Beyond the spectacle that we missed by not having Donner stay on for that Metropolis battle--- we also missed all the emotional dynamics that we would have seen from all four characters (hinted at by Zod's spectacular scream when Superman shows up & a few seconds in the FOS at the end)- pushed to their limit in the final battle emotionally.

I’m talking about the battle at the end of MOS not Superman II. Superman II’s big super fight in metropolis did try to have some human stakes and a Superman aware of and concerned over the human suffering around him.

MOS may have lacked it completely, but under Lester, we get a few seconds of reaction shots that are meant to be taken seriously amidst all the ice cream in the face jokes and other unwelcome jokes forced in by him.

It's a pity that Reeve didn't have better judgement before allowing Lester to come back for Superman III. I think he just fell too much for Lester's reputation with the Beatles movie & Three Musketeers to realize he just was the devil to everything Donner built with Superman.

[Metallo]

That’s what I mean. Despite all the silliness injected into it the Metropolis battle in Superman II at least had some human stakes. Man of Steel conjured plenty of 9/11 style imagery but most of it was cgi destruction with no people suffering or at risk on screen until we got to that awkward forced in moment with the family almost getting burned up by Zod. At least Lester could juggle both and sprinkle it in throughout the set piece. Snyder didn’t even bother to do that.

The Jenny Jurwich situation was laughably ham fisted and more of a character building moment for Perry White so I don’t even count that. Plus that not where she stumbles around the obvious green screen soundstage and says “he saved us” was hilariously bad and creatively tone deaf.