The Suicide Squad: the best film in the DCEU?

[Metallo]

Maybe? I liked it. REALLY liked it. It’s very much a James Gunn film. The Suicide Squad is hilarious (and not unintentionally hilarious like the piece of sh!t first movie). It made me care about a bunch of mostly c and d list characters. HeII it even made me cheer on a friggin rat by the end. I liked the little guy more than most DCEU characters.

It takes the few things that worked about the first film and crafts a stronger more focused story around it. Everyone in the movie is great especially the new additions. It really shows Gunns skill with characters and emotion. One of the few issues I had is Bloodsport is clearly just a lazily reskinned Deadshot since Will Smith said no. Elba is still good though.

The best part is the mission they're on in the movie actually makes sense. Nothing they did in the 2016 movie made any sense to me. Why would you put together a team of c list misfits like that to counter a Superman level threat? That’s how Waller sold the task force x concept to those senators and generals. It was so stupid.

I don't think they even mention anything from the first movie directly. Harley Quinn makes some vague allusions to the Joker, Waller is still a ice cold old b!tch, and they're still based out of Belle Reve penitentiary in Louisiana. But there's other stuff like despite Flagg being played by the same actor he's so different. They really make Flagg a stronger leader this time around. The whole thing has less of David Ayers lame edgy street gangsta aesthetic. There’s also better more creative use of music (which the 2016 movie was clearly trying to ape) like James Gunns other movies too.

I think it's probably the best movie in the DCEU. Better than Wonder Woman which I find slightly overrated. Gunn also got every drop of blood out of that R rating.

[crazy_asian_man]

There's good stuff in it, easily one of Gunn's best films- but I wonder what constitutes the DCEU and doesn't at this point if certain things are recast/rebooted/etc.--- or does it all count under the multiverse? If so, then I would say "the Dark Knight" as the most solid film from beginning to end. (STM has the time reversal which is funky)

[Metallo]

Aug 30, 2021 11:57:05 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

There's good stuff in it, easily one of Gunn's best films- but I wonder what constitutes the DCEU and doesn't at this point if certain things are recast/rebooted/etc.--- or does it all count under the multiverse? If so, then I would say "the Dark Knight" as the most solid film from beginning to end. (STM has the time reversal which is funky)

The Dark Knight isn’t the DCEU proper. If it were every DC movie they’ve ever made would be. DCEU is everything in the shared continuity started by MOS.

I guess you could argue all DC movies since then might be part of it but WB has said movies like Joker and The Batman are outside of the DCEU at least for now.

[crazy_asian_man]

I think Guardians of the Galaxy is his best film- but part of that to me is me always feeling like if you SPEND $200 million, it should LOOK $200 million- Although I get Gunn's idea of wanting 'gritty shakicam'- I'm so annoyed/ tired of it- unless you can't afford good cinematography and lighting.

But with the Suicide Squad's budget- I also thought that considering what the story was about, stop motion for Starro would have actually been more charming and appropriate (and arguably cheaper). But there's a lot of good in Squad, but I do feel for my tastes GOTG is better.

[Metallo]

Aug 30, 2021 19:00:43 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I think Guardians of the Galaxy is his best film- but part of that to me is me always feeling like if you SPEND $200 million, it should LOOK $200 million- Although I get Gunn's idea of wanting 'gritty shakicam'- I'm so annoyed/ tired of it- unless you can't afford good cinematography and lighting.

But with the Suicide Squad's budget- I also thought that considering what the story was about, stop motion for Starro would have actually been more charming and appropriate (and arguably cheaper). But there's a lot of good in Squad, but I do feel for my tastes GOTG is better.

I said best DCEU film. Not James Gunns best film. This is up there among his best though. The $200 million is VERY much on the screen. Especially with that finale. Far more impressive than the end of the 2016 movie. It’s a great looking film. There aren’t many truly huge action set pieces but the ones that are there look very good. You can also tell a lot of time and money went into King Shark.

Stop motion wouldn’t work well for Starro. He’s not built for that technique. Literally. He’s so thick and stubbily built it would be hard to manipulate him with any kind of nuance in the movements. They made the right call on this one. Plus there’s so much interaction you’d need the freedom cgi gives. It should be used for something so inhuman that couldn’t be done practically.

There are other things in the movie that could have been done practically but for the most part they made the best choices. There’s probably stuff we aren’t even thinking about. How much of Corto Maltese was practical sets and locations vs digital because a lot of it looked like it was either scouted or built. That’s going to cost a lot of money and the island looked very believable as a real place.

[Metallo]

I just checked Boxofficemojo and a few other websites and The Suicide Squad’s budget is listed as $185 million not $200 million. If that’s correct it’s only ten million dollars more than the first films budget and it still looks better especially when you consider the that 2016’s Suicide Squad used a lot of darkness and shadow to cover some of the flaws in the cgi.

The biggest scenes at the end of The Suicide Squad took place in broad daylight. Stuff like King Shark and Starro had to stand up to much harsher scrutiny under brighter lighting which makes its effects even more impressive. King Sharks probably got more brightly lit scenes than darkly lit ones.

[crazy_asian_man]

Sept 1, 2021 8:04:16 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I just checked Boxofficemojo and a few other websites and The Suicide Squad’s budget is listed as $185 million not $200 million. If that’s correct it’s only ten million dollars more than the first films budget and it still looks better especially when you consider the that 2016’s Suicide Squad used a lot of darkness and shadow to cover some of the flaws in the cgi.

The biggest scenes at the end of The Suicide Squad took place in broad daylight. Stuff like King Shark and Starro had to stand up to much harsher scrutiny under brighter lighting which makes its effects even more impressive. King Sharks probably got more brightly lit scenes than darkly lit ones.

For my part, I still feel that for a film like Suicide Squad, it would have been way cheaper and more fun to have had cheesy effects for Starro in the same way that I find the original cheesy Godzilla films far more fun with the guy in the rubber suit than the slick CGI Godzilla films.

I enjoy Suicide Squad, but to me I don't think James Gunn is quite the guy I would put in charge of the DC films going forward. If it's a choice between him and Snyder- that's one thing, but... are those the only choices?

[Metallo]

I don’t think the studio would ever go for that now. Was listening to an interview with someone (it may have been Seth Rogen) on Corridor crew and he said that the studios prefer digital over old techniques because they think the old stuff looks cheap and kitschy. I don’t agree with that but I do think Starro is one character than needed the fine detail and nuance that cgi provides. The film had a lot more practical effects than I was expecting.

As for Gunn running DC Films I don’t think that’s gonna happen nor should it. He’s not the right guy for everything. He might make for a great consultant or script doctor for certain films though.

[crazy_asian_man]

before i had heard joss whedon was an unofficial script doctor for marvel during his avengers reign and it made sense given his aesthetics... james gunn simetimes has ‘bad seinfeld’-ish scenes that are intended to be funny bit strike a false note now and then. i don’t think he shoukd be in charge of dceu either.

[Metallo]

It’s just that that job needs someone fully committed to that job. Like Feige is. He’s not trying to write and direct films. You also need someone that can steer films of various kinds and styles.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 8, 2021 21:22:22 GMT -5 Metallo said:

It’s just that that job needs someone fully committed to that job. Like Feige is. He’s not trying to write and direct films. You also need someone that can steer films of various kinds and styles.

That's the thing.... Feige doesn't sound like he's using Marvel as a stepping stone to anywhere else, even though he could. He seems genuinely passionate about these Phases and these challenges on its own.

Kevin Smith answered on his podcast which filmmaker he most admired and he said Kevin Feige- and I kind of agree. The films aren't all home runs, but the long game has been so ambitious and movies have been so varied (even if you can see formula elements now and then)- that one day it'd be nice to really hear after all the phases are completed (or maybe there's not going to be an end until all the comic projects he's wanted to do are done, which could do up to old age)... just how satisfied Feige is with what he's accomplished and what he learned from each of the films.

In a way, Kevin Feige is sort of the George Lucas of Marvel Films.... but without the Ewoks and some really unfortunate story elements.