atp
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Post by atp on May 8, 2022 9:28:34 GMT -5
Next month will be 9 years since it was released.
Why has nobody yet come forward to identify who the Reeve Only People were?
They have had 9 years to respond.
Try to do it, please
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 8, 2022 12:49:07 GMT -5
Wow. Time flies. The tenth anniversary of The Avengers just as passed too and here we are all that impact and all those sequels later. Then I look back at MOS and there’s not a sequel in sight. The further away we get from it the less chance there is for one too.
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atp
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Post by atp on May 8, 2022 15:09:15 GMT -5
Wow. Time flies. The tenth anniversary of The Avengers just as passed too and here we are all that impact and all those sequels later. Then I look back at MOS and there’s not a sequel in sight. The further away we get from it the less chance there is for one too. Yeah, if MoS was really so good, why has it not had a sequel in 9 years? |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 9, 2022 2:20:23 GMT -5
Wow. Time flies. The tenth anniversary of The Avengers just as passed too and here we are all that impact and all those sequels later. Then I look back at MOS and there’s not a sequel in sight. The further away we get from it the less chance there is for one too. Yeah, if MoS was really so good, why has it not had a sequel in 9 years? Technically, I think BvS is the sequel. But even if you had a fan cut of what I feel works best in MOS, it's still a bit of a bummer film and tone. Basically I feel like the ocre of Superman's concept was about hope amidst tragedy with Krypton's self-destruction and hope for the future in the long run.... but MOS basically tonally doesn't care for that but wants it as ID4 with Superheroes--- which still could have worked, but the dramatic scenes and choices just pushed it more towards horror film devoid of humanity. Antithesis of what Superman should be about. The bigger bummer beyond the movies is time flying and seeing the world not necessarily getting better. |
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atp
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Post by atp on May 9, 2022 12:34:08 GMT -5
Yeah, if MoS was really so good, why has it not had a sequel in 9 years? Technically, I think BvS is the sequel. But even if you had a fan cut of what I feel works best in MOS, it's still a bit of a bummer film and tone. Basically I feel like the ocre of Superman's concept was about hope amidst tragedy with Krypton's self-destruction and hope for the future in the long run.... but MOS basically tonally doesn't care for that but wants it as ID4 with Superheroes--- which still could have worked, but the dramatic scenes and choices just pushed it more towards horror film devoid of humanity. Antithesis of what Superman should be about. The bigger bummer beyond the movies is time flying and seeing the world not necessarily getting better. There is a fan cut of what works best in MOS. It was called the trailer. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 9, 2022 16:33:01 GMT -5
Well.... regardless, it is a GREAT trailer! Have to admit that...
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atp
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Post by atp on May 10, 2022 0:17:15 GMT -5
Yes it was. All the trailers were impressive, and really lured us in.
Classic bait-and-switch scam...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 11, 2022 20:11:27 GMT -5
Yeah, if MoS was really so good, why has it not had a sequel in 9 years? Technically, I think BvS is the sequel. But even if you had a fan cut of what I feel works best in MOS, it's still a bit of a bummer film and tone. Basically I feel like the ocre of Superman's concept was about hope amidst tragedy with Krypton's self-destruction and hope for the future in the long run.... but MOS basically tonally doesn't care for that but wants it as ID4 with Superheroes--- which still could have worked, but the dramatic scenes and choices just pushed it more towards horror film devoid of humanity. Antithesis of what Superman should be about. The bigger bummer beyond the movies is time flying and seeing the world not necessarily getting better. Kind of. Sort of. Not really. It’s a follow up but not a true direct sequel. It’s also trying to be a Batman movie and a team up and a lead in to Justice League. If the MOS had earned a true sequel in WB’s eyes it wouldn’t need Batman. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 11, 2022 20:20:43 GMT -5
Yes it was. All the trailers were impressive, and really lured us in. Classic bait-and-switch scam... Yeah. The teaser trailer implied a Terrence Malick-y deep thinking action drama. That’s why people loved that first teaser. That’s not what we got. Later trailers kind of let us know that but by then peoples expectations were too high for something special. MOS almost was what people hoped for but by that third act it totally falls apart. Snyder just couldn’t resist his urges.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 12, 2022 0:30:43 GMT -5
I think that's the thing about MOS's box office in other countries where English is not necessarily the first language- those countries might have thought that the movie was more sophisticated than it was. I know I do give films with languages I don't understand a bit of lattitude if something deeper (maybe) got lost in the translation...
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atp
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Post by atp on May 12, 2022 3:30:11 GMT -5
Yes it was. All the trailers were impressive, and really lured us in. Classic bait-and-switch scam... Yeah. The teaser trailer implied a Terrence Malick-y deep thinking action drama. That’s why people loved that first teaser. That’s not what we got. Later trailers kind of let us know that but by then peoples expectations were too high for something special. MOS almost was what people hoped for but by that third act it totally falls apart. Snyder just couldn’t resist his urges. The scumbags even used the music from The Thin Red Line in the first trailer, in order to seduce us into thinking MoS was going to be something different to what it was. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 14, 2022 2:38:36 GMT -5
I don't blame marketing departments that much in fooling an audience member to making a movie seem better than it is. Word of mouth I think ends up being the stronger thing. Ultimately, if SR divided people, MOS did so even more to such a giant extent- well, no need to look any further to what's left of the numbers on this forum!  |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 14, 2022 10:26:09 GMT -5
I don't blame marketing departments that much in fooling an audience member to making a movie seem better than it is. Word of mouth I think ends up being the stronger thing. Ultimately, if SR divided people, MOS did so even more to such a giant extent- well, no need to look any further to what's left of the numbers on this forum! Not just better but different. I can understand better but early on they sold people a very different film. |
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Post by atp on May 14, 2022 13:29:10 GMT -5
Totally different. It was misleading and fraudulent.
Just compare this first trailer with the crap that we ended up with...
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atp
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Post by atp on May 14, 2022 13:30:31 GMT -5
And this trailer too...
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dejan
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Post by dejan on May 16, 2022 11:31:15 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 16, 2022 19:38:02 GMT -5
STM had a great marketing campaign all around. It still has one of the best teaser trailers ever and unlike MOS STM actually lived up to the marketing. The DCEU on the other hand has struggled with marketing since the start. Justice League had some pretty poor marketing from hiding Superman to the awful tagline and song choices for trailers. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 22, 2022 11:50:21 GMT -5
I'd read somewhere that De Laurentis' King Kong box office disappointment was blamed a lot on showing Kong in the trailer and tv commercials-- instead of having people have to pay money to see the giant monkey in state of the art (at the time) fx on the big screen. That being the case, either WB or the Salkinds (or both) decided not to share ANY flying footage before it came out initially, and instead focus on the names/etc.- Have to give the Salkinds credit for really pumping it up to be a big event, with the planes they had flying over Cannes years before it came out- and then going after Brando and a top of the line screenwriter to adapt it- Oscar winner William Goldman (sp?) was approached, but didn't realize that the production was going to be as good as it was- and turned it down. The only clip I remember that was allowed to be released initially was Clark meeting the Daily Planet staff... not exactly overwhelming, but SO glad that they didn't give away the goods by releasing the helicopter rescue or the other gold early on. In later commercials, of course- (and even at the Academy Awards) they showed bits of the helicopter rescue... but smart to withhold as much as they did. It was fun feeling all the excitement without being able to see anything except stills in Time magazine/whatnot. With Burton's Batman- I felt the same excitement with the Batman logo being the only real reveal..... and the trailer that people would pay money to see literally. While I enjoy the easy access of the internet- there's something to be said for NOT showing or revealing something early, that you have to work hard to see. |
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Post by dejan on May 23, 2022 16:58:48 GMT -5
 Agreed CAM and Metallo. This early teaser poster pretty much says it all. The 2 best dramatic actors of the contemporary(early /mid 70s) scene on the marqee!. One of them(Brando) already considered to be the best actor of the previous(50s/60s/70s) 25-30 years by that point. The other(Hackman), one of the best "character" actors out there(as of the 70s) , bagging an Oscar for The Conversation in 74'(an excellent performance BTW!). You can't top that. For MoS you had Costner and Crowe. They are good.Great even. But they are still no Brando and Hackman. For Supes Returns you had just Kevin Spacey(and maybe Frank Lagella)! Again fine actors both. But they are still not on the same level as Hackman and definitely not Brando. Proof is in the pudding that Brando is still widely considered(as of 2022!) to be the greatest screen actor of all time. And Hackman is probably not far behind(as of 2022) . I can't think of an analogous comparison if a new Supes movie came out now. Di Caprio as Jorel. Tom Cruise or Johhny Depp(defamation trial withstanding!) as Luthor. LOL! That's how high STM was at the time. And all of that was without mentioning the great man himself(Reeve)! STM was on a whole other level. Always was. Most likely , always will be. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2022 21:22:54 GMT -5
I'd read somewhere that De Laurentis' King Kong box office disappointment was blamed a lot on showing Kong in the trailer and tv commercials-- instead of having people have to pay money to see the giant monkey in state of the art (at the time) fx on the big screen. That being the case, either WB or the Salkinds (or both) decided not to share ANY flying footage before it came out initially, and instead focus on the names/etc.- Have to give the Salkinds credit for really pumping it up to be a big event, with the planes they had flying over Cannes years before it came out- and then going after Brando and a top of the line screenwriter to adapt it- Oscar winner William Goldman (sp?) was approached, but didn't realize that the production was going to be as good as it was- and turned it down. The only clip I remember that was allowed to be released initially was Clark meeting the Daily Planet staff... not exactly overwhelming, but SO glad that they didn't give away the goods by releasing the helicopter rescue or the other gold early on. In later commercials, of course- (and even at the Academy Awards) they showed bits of the helicopter rescue... but smart to withhold as much as they did. It was fun feeling all the excitement without being able to see anything except stills in Time magazine/whatnot. With Burton's Batman- I felt the same excitement with the Batman logo being the only real reveal..... and the trailer that people would pay money to see literally. While I enjoy the easy access of the internet- there's something to be said for NOT showing or revealing something early, that you have to work hard to see. It’s a fine line to walk. 20 plus years later Roland Emmerich’s Godzilla tried the less is more approach to marketing and it totally blew up in their faces. Probably because the creature was never going to live up to the expectations they built up for it. Sometimes the don’t show enough and others they show too much. The amazing Spider-Man 2 gave away too much of the movie but I think Justice League made a mistake by not featuring Superman more in the marketing material. Then there are times where the marketing is too vague like The Eternals. |
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2022 21:36:17 GMT -5
Agreed CAM and Metallo. This early teaser poster pretty much says it all. The 2 best dramatic actors of the contemporary(early /mid 70s) scene on the marqee!. One of them(Brando) already considered to be the best actor of the previous(50s/60s/70s) 25-30 years by that point. The other(Hackman), one of the best "character" actors out there(as of the 70s) , bagging an Oscar for The Conversation in 74'(an excellent performance BTW!). You can't top that. For MoS you had Costner and Crowe. They are good.Great even. But they are still no Brando and Hackman. For Supes Returns you had just Kevin Spacey(and maybe Frank Lagella)! Again fine actors both. But they are still not on the same level as Hackman and definitely not Brando. Proof is in the pudding that Brando is still widely considered(as of 2022!) to be the greatest screen actor of all time. And Hackman is probably not far behind(as of 2022) . I can't think of an analogous comparison if a new Supes movie came out now. Di Caprio as Jorel. Tom Cruise or Johhny Depp(defamation trial withstanding!) as Luthor. LOL! That's how high STM was at the time. And all of that was without mentioning the great man himself(Reeve)! STM was on a whole other level. Always was. Most likely , always will be. There are great actors and then there are the right actors. You’ve got to figure out the sweet spot where you get both. It’s about getting the best out of those actors. Donner was more of an actors director. Snyder isn’t. He doesn’t know how to get the best performances out of his actors. Like you said Crowe is a great actor and Costner was a fine choice for Pa Kent but the material wasn’t there and Snyder didn’t know how to feature them best. MOS has a lot of great actors in its cast but some of them aren’t in the right roles and some of them just weren’t used well. STM had the superior casting and the superior usage. Donner said it himself he knew what he needed to do to get what he wanted out of his stars. He worked with Kidder one way and with Reeve in a different way. Actors have their own processes. He knew how to manage Brando too. Even Cary Elwes had some great insight on how to get Marlon in a good mood and to cooperate. Donner discussing how he got Harvey Stephens to react exactly how he wanted in that last shot for The Omen is brilliant. The Omen is almost the anti Superman movie when you really break it down. Donner was such a pro that he could flip that entire concept for hero a couple of years later and make it work just as well. |
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atp
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Post by atp on May 24, 2022 15:11:52 GMT -5
Are there even any actors today that have the same stature as Brando and Hackman?
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Post by dejan on May 31, 2022 14:04:28 GMT -5
Are there even any actors today that have the same stature as Brando and Hackman? In my personal opinion(and as always it's just an insignificant opinion-lol!)............no! Hackman starred alongside a pre-Titanic DiCaprio(and Russel Crowe!) in Raimi's the Quick And The Dead in 93'. At that point , obviously Hackman's seniority, in terms of the character he portrayed in that film, overshadowed the much younger chaps like DiCaprio and Crowe. Circling back to 1977 for STM, Hackman was a good 20 years older than Reeve at that point in time.......yet Reeve always gave the impression of being much older.....and in the scenes with Hackman(for both I & II) , that age difference was never apparent in terms of the recitation......again IMHO. Hackman also starred alongside Tom Cruise , again in 93' in The Firm(nice little flick BTW). Apparently Hackman got pissed off that his name would not be on equal billing to that of Cruise......so he asked to have his name removed altogether lol. Cruise was already 10+ years into his career by that point and touching 30. It's still one of Cruise's best dramatic nuanced performances IMHO....and he holds his own against Hackman. But Hackman still gives a very cultured performance in his own right. Johhny Depp apparently starred in 2 films with Brando in the 90s. I have not seen them , so can't comment. But IMHO it's these 3 guys(Depp,Cruise,DiCaprio) who represent the best of the current crop over the last 20-30 years or so. To have all 3 in a new Supes movie would be the equivalent of what it was like to have Brando and Hackman in STM in 78'. When you think about it a lot of modern superhero flicks have tried to ape that star billing that we got in STM......but have never quite reached the same heights. In the MCU we had: Lee Jones in Cap America Jeff Bridges in Iron Man 1 Hopkins in Thor 1 ect ect There was Caine in Begins and Nickelson in Burton's Batman But Brando is Brando......and there is only one of those! There is also only one Reeve! STM was lightning in a bottle. |
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Post by Metallo on May 31, 2022 18:11:39 GMT -5
There really isn’t a modern equivalent to Hackman or Brando Nicholson who has stepped into these kinds of superhero movies recently. They all had the right mix of star power, critical acclaim, success, and respect among their peers as true icons that it meant a great deal in not only getting those films made but making them successful. There have been a few guys from their era who have done it after them but they didn’t mean as much to getting those films made.
Sean Connery tried out the comic book world with “LXG” but it was far too late in his career and a total failure. His in involvement in Highlander wasn’t as big a deal or payoff as Brando’s in Superman but it was obvious the producers of that film wanted him for similar reasons. Jeff Bridges is one of the guys younger them that is similar in that his involvement probably helped Iron Man tremendously but as great as he is even he’s not quite on a Brando level. Same with Neeson in Batman Begins or Hopkins in Thor. Great stars and talents but I think all those films would have been made without them because making the movies didn’t depend on their involvement. By the time those films rolled around the superhero genre was more proven and less risky. When STM was made most of the film industry didn’t even see the appeal.
Depp has really fallen off over the last ten or fifteen years. It’s like once he got a taste of that blockbuster fame and money with the Pirates films he became a parody of himself turning in the same goofy performances. Before he ever does any kind of superhero film I’d like to see him get back to the old standard he used to have for his work.
Its been interesting to see Cruise slowly ease into that elder statesmen phase of his career. I think after his last Mission Impossible film we’ll be seeing him embrace more of those kinds of roles as a lead. I’d be curious to see him hop on board the superhero train considering he’s flirted with those kinds of movies in the past. The problem is the amount of control and influence Cruise has on his movies. Unless it was a smaller role I can’t see him giving up that kind of control so maybe he’d do a lesser known property where he could have that.
DiCaprio I can see continuing to do his own thing. Those kinds of movies don’t seem to be his bag. Not right now anyway.
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Post by atp on May 31, 2022 20:09:53 GMT -5
Soon we will be accused of being the Hackman Only People
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