MoS is 9 years old

[Metallo]

If it came down to big screen Lex Luthors I think most would choose to be Hackman only people. Spaceys been blackballed because he was, to put it mildly, having some serious issues. Jessie Eisenberg was just flat out god f*cking awful.

[atp]

Spacey was also crap as Lex Luthor in SR

[Metallo]

I didn’t mind him. He had some poor material at times in that movie but I thought it was no brainer casting. Eisenberg I found to be insufferable.

[dejan]

Metallo
Perfect and succinct analysis in your posts regarding the right actor for the right roles and the cinematic trajectories for the likes of DiCaprio,Cruise and Depp.

Did a bit of research and found out that DiCaprio was a comic book fan as a kid.
He would have been a hair too young to watch STM in 78'.......but I am pretty sure he grew up raised on Reeve's Supes.
For sure, DiCaprio is a huge fan of Brando.
Indeed I think he is seeking to emulate him.
Ergo Brando took part in a superhero flick.......therefore DiCaprio must follow suit! lol 


I like your prediction for Cruise.
IMHO his last truly cerebral role was in Eyes Wide Shut which is more than 20 years ago.
Most of the stuff he has done since then(and quite frankly even before) has had some element of action orientated stuff in it.
Which is fine as he handles that side pretty well, even to the extent that he performs his own death defying stunts.
But far more importantly, he also has good dramatic chops if he is allowed to express them....Magnolia,A Few Good Men,The Fourth Of July, Rain Man, The Firm and Eyes Wide Shut are testimony to this fact.

In fact here is Reeve in 1990 recommending Cruise for an Oscar for his turn in 4th Of July:


As you say, he likes to excercise control over the material, especially those scripts which conform to the Cruise formula(arrogant cocky upstart who overcomes problems ,wins the day and never dies--lol-excluding Valkirie and Collateral!).
Could this be a problem if he takes part in any superhero project?
Definitely!
Having said that, the role of Jorel could be well suited for Cruise as the character has that powerful resonance within the Supes lore(saving,redeeming,guiding Supes on his endeavors).So I think it's a role that Cruise could have some affinity for.

Totally agree with you that Depp has lost the plot with Pirates....which is a shame for an actor who always prided himself on integrity of performance.He definitely phoned it in for Pirates 4 &5 which for me are like SIV.....with better effects lol!
But his last role was in Minimata(based on the true story about mercury poisoning of rural Japanese towns/villages by big transnational corporations).
Very interesting material and he plays the part of an aged photo journalist which is just the kind of role this chap should be tackling at his age(again-defamation suit notwithstanding).
I can see Depp doing a Luthor or Jorel if the material was right.

I found a clip of The Brave(1997) featuring Depp and Brando.
I have not seen the entire film but even so, when Brando gets into a monalogue , there are few who can match him.
What's also weird is that Depp is wearing a bandana which makes him look like you know who!
So here it is- Jorel from ' Kryptn' meeting Capt'n Jack Sparraw!


You also identified a very interesting factor with regards to how the very best (Brando and Hackman) were needed to attract financial interest in the then upcoming STM , which as you say, was a project that was straying into unknown cinematic territory.
It's like an inverse correlation.
Because as you also rightly said, superhero flicks these days are almost guranteed to get a healthy return on their initial investements......hence the reason NOT to attract(or to need) the very finest acting talent that Hollywood has to offer.

Which would be to the detriment of a new Supes movie as it by definition , demands the creme de la creme of acting talent , to set it apart from everything else that is currently out there.
Doubt it will happen but here's hopin'!

[Metallo]

Jun 1, 2022 12:43:23 GMT -5 dejan said:

Metallo
Perfect and succinct analysis in your posts regarding the right actor for the right roles and the cinematic trajectories for the likes of DiCaprio,Cruise and Depp.

Did a bit of research and found out that DiCaprio was a comic book fan as a kid.
He would have been a hair too young to watch STM in 78'.......but I am pretty sure he grew up raised on Reeve's Supes.
For sure, DiCaprio is a huge fan of Brando.
Indeed I think he is seeking to emulate him.
Ergo Brando took part in a superhero flick.......therefore DiCaprio must follow suit! lol 


I like your prediction for Cruise.
IMHO his last truly cerebral role was in Eyes Wide Shut which is more than 20 years ago.
Most of the stuff he has done since then(and quite frankly even before) has had some element of action orientated stuff in it.
Which is fine as he handles that side pretty well, even to the extent that he performs his own death defying stunts.
But far more importantly, he also has good dramatic chops if he is allowed to express them....Magnolia,A Few Good Men,The Fourth Of July, Rain Man, The Firm and Eyes Wide Shut are testimony to this fact.

In fact here is Reeve in 1990 recommending Cruise for an Oscar for his turn in 4th Of July:


As you say, he likes to excercise control over the material, especially those scripts which conform to the Cruise formula(arrogant cocky upstart who overcomes problems ,wins the day and never dies--lol-excluding Valkirie and Collateral!).
Could this be a problem if he takes part in any superhero project?
Definitely!
Having said that, the role of Jorel could be well suited for Cruise as the character has that powerful resonance within the Supes lore(saving,redeeming,guiding Supes on his endeavors).So I think it's a role that Cruise could have some affinity for.

Totally agree with you that Depp has lost the plot with Pirates....which is a shame for an actor who always prided himself on integrity of performance.He definitely phoned it in for Pirates 4 &5 which for me are like SIV.....with better effects lol!
But his last role was in Minimata(based on the true story about mercury poisoning of rural Japanese towns/villages by big transnational corporations).
Very interesting material and he plays the part of an aged photo journalist which is just the kind of role this chap should be tackling at his age(again-defamation suit notwithstanding).
I can see Depp doing a Luthor or Jorel if the material was right.

I found a clip of The Brave(1997) featuring Depp and Brando.
I have not seen the entire film but even so, when Brando gets into a monalogue , there are few who can match him.
What's also weird is that Depp is wearing a bandana which makes him look like you know who!
So here it is- Jorel from ' Kryptn' meeting Capt'n Jack Sparraw!


You also identified a very interesting factor with regards to how the very best (Brando and Hackman) were needed to attract financial interest in the then upcoming STM , which as you say, was a project that was straying into unknown cinematic territory.
It's like an inverse correlation.
Because as you also rightly said, superhero flicks these days are almost guranteed to get a healthy return on their initial investements......hence the reason NOT to attract(or to need) the very finest acting talent that Hollywood has to offer.

Which would be to the detriment of a new Supes movie as it by definition , demands the creme de la creme of acting talent , to set it apart from everything else that is currently out there.
Doubt it will happen but here's hopin'!

I think DiCaprio is a big Star Wars fan. He definitely likes this stuff but I’m not sure he’s ready to star in it yet. Maybe one day. For now he can write his own ticket, call his own shots, etc.

Cruise really has been focusing on the action movie genre for the last 25 years or so and its seemingly increased as he’s gotten older. I think he saw a certain window to make those kinds of big films and big money and he took it. As the window has started to close I think he’s trying to do as much as he can. I enjoyed Valkyrie because while it had some action it was also a dramatic film.

You’re right about Depp and Brando. Not only were they friends but I think he looked at Brando as a a sort of role model (for better or worse) when it came to his life and career.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jun 1, 2022 2:11:06 GMT -5 atp said:

Spacey was also crap as Lex Luthor in SR

I thought Spacey was fine... but the choice to try to force him into Hackman's version of Luthor was a big mistake. With the Singer version deciding to go on-book, off-book with being a sequel... Hackman's Luthor I don't think was the right thing to ressurect.

There's some things that I thought worked ok... like how they used Parker Posey, to a degree- and Lex's cruelty and sadism put in suggested by his time in prison- but overall, design-wise it felt like a step backward to keep the real-estate version.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jun 1, 2022 12:43:23 GMT -5 dejan said:

Metallo
Perfect and succinct analysis in your posts regarding the right actor for the right roles and the cinematic trajectories for the likes of DiCaprio,Cruise and Depp.

Did a bit of research and found out that DiCaprio was a comic book fan as a kid.
He would have been a hair too young to watch STM in 78'.......but I am pretty sure he grew up raised on Reeve's Supes.
For sure, DiCaprio is a huge fan of Brando.
Indeed I think he is seeking to emulate him.
Ergo Brando took part in a superhero flick.......therefore DiCaprio must follow suit! lol 


I like your prediction for Cruise.
IMHO his last truly cerebral role was in Eyes Wide Shut which is more than 20 years ago.
Most of the stuff he has done since then(and quite frankly even before) has had some element of action orientated stuff in it.
Which is fine as he handles that side pretty well, even to the extent that he performs his own death defying stunts.
But far more importantly, he also has good dramatic chops if he is allowed to express them....Magnolia,A Few Good Men,The Fourth Of July, Rain Man, The Firm and Eyes Wide Shut are testimony to this fact.

In fact here is Reeve in 1990 recommending Cruise for an Oscar for his turn in 4th Of July:


As you say, he likes to excercise control over the material, especially those scripts which conform to the Cruise formula(arrogant cocky upstart who overcomes problems ,wins the day and never dies--lol-excluding Valkirie and Collateral!).
Could this be a problem if he takes part in any superhero project?
Definitely!
Having said that, the role of Jorel could be well suited for Cruise as the character has that powerful resonance within the Supes lore(saving,redeeming,guiding Supes on his endeavors).So I think it's a role that Cruise could have some affinity for.

Totally agree with you that Depp has lost the plot with Pirates....which is a shame for an actor who always prided himself on integrity of performance.He definitely phoned it in for Pirates 4 &5 which for me are like SIV.....with better effects lol!
But his last role was in Minimata(based on the true story about mercury poisoning of rural Japanese towns/villages by big transnational corporations).
Very interesting material and he plays the part of an aged photo journalist which is just the kind of role this chap should be tackling at his age(again-defamation suit notwithstanding).
I can see Depp doing a Luthor or Jorel if the material was right.

I found a clip of The Brave(1997) featuring Depp and Brando.
I have not seen the entire film but even so, when Brando gets into a monalogue , there are few who can match him.
What's also weird is that Depp is wearing a bandana which makes him look like you know who!
So here it is- Jorel from ' Kryptn' meeting Capt'n Jack Sparraw!


You also identified a very interesting factor with regards to how the very best (Brando and Hackman) were needed to attract financial interest in the then upcoming STM , which as you say, was a project that was straying into unknown cinematic territory.
It's like an inverse correlation.
Because as you also rightly said, superhero flicks these days are almost guranteed to get a healthy return on their initial investements......hence the reason NOT to attract(or to need) the very finest acting talent that Hollywood has to offer.

Which would be to the detriment of a new Supes movie as it by definition , demands the creme de la creme of acting talent , to set it apart from everything else that is currently out there.
Doubt it will happen but here's hopin'!

It'll be interesting to see how Cruise wants to reshape his career as he's really hitting the age where old age can't be hidden anymore--- I mean, he looks fantastic in Top Gun: Maverick, but.... where to go next after Mission Impossible and when he feels like it's too much to be the lead action hero?

For sure, he's got to be thinking he doesn't want to be on the stage too long as an action hero (He's got to be noticing what happened to Ahnuld when he tried to come back at his age)-- but I don't see him retiring to the small screen like Harrison Ford is apparently doing now, either.

[Metallo]

Yeah it’ll be interesting to see where his career goes during this I guess you could call it third phase. The next two mission impossibles feel like his big action hero/franchise swan song.

I had a female friend 20 years ago who talked about how Hollywood tried to keep Cruise looking eternally young. Even then it was obvious. That’s why when I first started to notice his age finally starting to show in the last ten years it was a little shocking.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jun 28, 2022 9:58:29 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah it’ll be interesting to see where his career goes during this I guess you could call it third phase. The next two mission impossibles feel like his big action hero/franchise swan song.

I had a female friend 20 years ago who talked about how Hollywood tried to keep Cruise looking eternally young. Even then it was obvious. That’s why when I first started to notice his age finally starting to show in the last ten years it was a little shocking.

What's weird is that seeing Top Gun: Maverick with it playing into Cruise's age felt like a 'win' for old guys like me as his character won.

If Cruise can continue to navigate a successful career into REAL old age, I feel weirdly like it's a win for all the people who were young when he was young, too.

But- I'm not sure how he can... but to be honest, LOVING it when actors who were young when I was young are able to make a comeback of sorts without botox:

Some examples-
* Patrick Stewart in Picard
* Ralph Macchio and the actor who played JOhnny, Elisabeth Shue in Cobra Kai
* Stallone in Creed II still playing Rocky-
* Nicolas Cage in Unbearable Weight of Immense Talent movie...

I don't doubt Cruise's acting abilities- but it's certainly going to be a challenge to figure out how to repackage himself as he gets older now- if he still wants to be the lead actor in any new franchise at this point.

[atp]

Jun 30, 2022 1:29:17 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Jun 28, 2022 9:58:29 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah it’ll be interesting to see where his career goes during this I guess you could call it third phase. The next two mission impossibles feel like his big action hero/franchise swan song.

I had a female friend 20 years ago who talked about how Hollywood tried to keep Cruise looking eternally young. Even then it was obvious. That’s why when I first started to notice his age finally starting to show in the last ten years it was a little shocking.

What's weird is that seeing Top Gun: Maverick with it playing into Cruise's age felt like a 'win' for old guys like me as his character won.

If Cruise can continue to navigate a successful career into REAL old age, I feel weirdly like it's a win for all the people who were young when he was young, too.

But- I'm not sure how he can... but to be honest, LOVING it when actors who were young when I was young are able to make a comeback of sorts without botox:

Some examples-
* Patrick Stewart in Picard
* Ralph Macchio and the actor who played JOhnny, Elisabeth Shue in Cobra Kai
* Stallone in Creed II still playing Rocky-
* Nicolas Cage in Unbearable Weight of Immense Talent movie...

I don't doubt Cruise's acting abilities- but it's certainly going to be a challenge to figure out how to repackage himself as he gets older now- if he still wants to be the lead actor in any new franchise at this point.

Do you think an older Tom Cruise would be a good Jor El if they reboot Superman?

He now definitely looks like he could be Superman's father, and particularly the Christopher Reeve version of Superman.

Brando had the same quality. He actually looked like an older version of Superman.

That is missing with actors like Russell Crowe and Angus McFadyen. I simply don't buy them as Superman's father.

[Metallo]

Jun 30, 2022 1:29:17 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Jun 28, 2022 9:58:29 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Yeah it’ll be interesting to see where his career goes during this I guess you could call it third phase. The next two mission impossibles feel like his big action hero/franchise swan song.

I had a female friend 20 years ago who talked about how Hollywood tried to keep Cruise looking eternally young. Even then it was obvious. That’s why when I first started to notice his age finally starting to show in the last ten years it was a little shocking.

What's weird is that seeing Top Gun: Maverick with it playing into Cruise's age felt like a 'win' for old guys like me as his character won.

If Cruise can continue to navigate a successful career into REAL old age, I feel weirdly like it's a win for all the people who were young when he was young, too.

But- I'm not sure how he can... but to be honest, LOVING it when actors who were young when I was young are able to make a comeback of sorts without botox:

Some examples-
* Patrick Stewart in Picard
* Ralph Macchio and the actor who played JOhnny, Elisabeth Shue in Cobra Kai
* Stallone in Creed II still playing Rocky-
* Nicolas Cage in Unbearable Weight of Immense Talent movie...

I don't doubt Cruise's acting abilities- but it's certainly going to be a challenge to figure out how to repackage himself as he gets older now- if he still wants to be the lead actor in any new franchise at this point.

Acknowledging these characters ages makes them more interesting and relatable. We’ve all gotten older so of course they should. Ignoring it and keeping the same status quo would be absurd at this point but too many movies still do that. It was fascinating to see Kirk admitting he was older in Star Trek II since he’s the type of guy that would have trouble accepting it. One of the flaws of the last few X-men movies was thirty years passed between First Class and Dark Phoenix and not only did no one point it out but it wasn’t worked into the characters at all. It took me right out of the movies.

[Metallo]

Jun 30, 2022 2:21:40 GMT -5 atp said:

Jun 30, 2022 1:29:17 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

What's weird is that seeing Top Gun: Maverick with it playing into Cruise's age felt like a 'win' for old guys like me as his character won.

If Cruise can continue to navigate a successful career into REAL old age, I feel weirdly like it's a win for all the people who were young when he was young, too.

But- I'm not sure how he can... but to be honest, LOVING it when actors who were young when I was young are able to make a comeback of sorts without botox:

Some examples-
* Patrick Stewart in Picard
* Ralph Macchio and the actor who played JOhnny, Elisabeth Shue in Cobra Kai
* Stallone in Creed II still playing Rocky-
* Nicolas Cage in Unbearable Weight of Immense Talent movie...

I don't doubt Cruise's acting abilities- but it's certainly going to be a challenge to figure out how to repackage himself as he gets older now- if he still wants to be the lead actor in any new franchise at this point.

Do you think an older Tom Cruise would be a good Jor El if they reboot Superman?

He now definitely looks like he could be Superman's father, and particularly the Christopher Reeve version of Superman.

Brando had the same quality. He actually looked like an older version of Superman.

That is missing with actors like Russell Crowe and Angus McFadyen. I simply don't buy them as Superman's father.

I think guys like that are too rugged to be Jor-El. Good actors but they don’t quite fit the image of the character that’s always existed. It’s not just the beards but them being naturally manly guys. Crowe would have made for a better apron in the Thor films than Jor-El which is funny since Hopkins was rumored to be a choice for Jor-El years ago. Cruise could do it but it’s a question of if he’d want to. Would he be great at it?nnSomething inside leaves me torn on that. If it’s the Cruise that really stretched himself as an actor and played more introspective and vulnerable then maybe.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jun 30, 2022 2:21:40 GMT -5 atp said:

Jun 30, 2022 1:29:17 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

What's weird is that seeing Top Gun: Maverick with it playing into Cruise's age felt like a 'win' for old guys like me as his character won.

If Cruise can continue to navigate a successful career into REAL old age, I feel weirdly like it's a win for all the people who were young when he was young, too.

But- I'm not sure how he can... but to be honest, LOVING it when actors who were young when I was young are able to make a comeback of sorts without botox:

Some examples-
* Patrick Stewart in Picard
* Ralph Macchio and the actor who played JOhnny, Elisabeth Shue in Cobra Kai
* Stallone in Creed II still playing Rocky-
* Nicolas Cage in Unbearable Weight of Immense Talent movie...

I don't doubt Cruise's acting abilities- but it's certainly going to be a challenge to figure out how to repackage himself as he gets older now- if he still wants to be the lead actor in any new franchise at this point.

Do you think an older Tom Cruise would be a good Jor El if they reboot Superman?

He now definitely looks like he could be Superman's father, and particularly the Christopher Reeve version of Superman.

Brando had the same quality. He actually looked like an older version of Superman.

That is missing with actors like Russell Crowe and Angus McFadyen. I simply don't buy them as Superman's father.

I'm glad that I was too young to really be aware of Brando's history prior to seeing STM- otherwise I'm not sure if I could have had that 'clean slate' to accept him as Jor-el.

With Tom Cruise (and Ben Affleck)- It'd be too hard to see either of them in a superhero film as anything but Tom Cruise and Ben Afflekck.

But.... I admit sometimes something might just end up working for me, despite all my protests that it can't, I admit. (As an example, I never would have thought a Cobra Kai series was a good idea until it came out and suprised the heck out of me).

Crowe and Costner as Jor-el and Kent actually I thought were ok casting in MOS, but everything else was a disaster, so it was a moot point. So, I could be wrong with Cruise as Jor-el, but until I see it... who knows?

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 1, 2022 13:37:48 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Jun 30, 2022 1:29:17 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

What's weird is that seeing Top Gun: Maverick with it playing into Cruise's age felt like a 'win' for old guys like me as his character won.

If Cruise can continue to navigate a successful career into REAL old age, I feel weirdly like it's a win for all the people who were young when he was young, too.

But- I'm not sure how he can... but to be honest, LOVING it when actors who were young when I was young are able to make a comeback of sorts without botox:

Some examples-
* Patrick Stewart in Picard
* Ralph Macchio and the actor who played JOhnny, Elisabeth Shue in Cobra Kai
* Stallone in Creed II still playing Rocky-
* Nicolas Cage in Unbearable Weight of Immense Talent movie...

I don't doubt Cruise's acting abilities- but it's certainly going to be a challenge to figure out how to repackage himself as he gets older now- if he still wants to be the lead actor in any new franchise at this point.

Acknowledging these characters ages makes them more interesting and relatable. We’ve all gotten older so of course they should. Ignoring it and keeping the same status quo would be absurd at this point but too many movies still do that. It was fascinating to see Kirk admitting he was older in Star Trek II since he’s the type of guy that would have trouble accepting it. One of the flaws of the last few X-men movies was thirty years passed between First Class and Dark Phoenix and not only did no one point it out but it wasn’t worked into the characters at all. It took me right out of the movies.

I was actually so shocked that First Class and X-men Days of Future Past could wipe out the bad taste of X3- and give it a clean slate so to speak, that it was a minor miracle and I could forgive a lot. But- it's so sad that right after DOFP, Apocalypse blew it with its final act - and Dark Phoenix was bad from beginning to end. But--- given how X-men was a first ever live action superhero group movie, nice that there were more good parts than bad overall in the sequels as a whole that sprung out of one movie that might not have even made it from the get-go.

[atp]

Jul 2, 2022 3:29:29 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Jun 30, 2022 2:21:40 GMT -5 atp said:

Do you think an older Tom Cruise would be a good Jor El if they reboot Superman?

He now definitely looks like he could be Superman's father, and particularly the Christopher Reeve version of Superman.

Brando had the same quality. He actually looked like an older version of Superman.

That is missing with actors like Russell Crowe and Angus McFadyen. I simply don't buy them as Superman's father.

I'm glad that I was too young to really be aware of Brando's history prior to seeing STM- otherwise I'm not sure if I could have had that 'clean slate' to accept him as Jor-el.

With Tom Cruise (and Ben Affleck)- It'd be too hard to see either of them in a superhero film as anything but Tom Cruise and Ben Afflekck.

But.... I admit sometimes something might just end up working for me, despite all my protests that it can't, I admit. (As an example, I never would have thought a Cobra Kai series was a good idea until it came out and suprised the heck out of me).

Crowe and Costner as Jor-el and Kent actually I thought were ok casting in MOS, but everything else was a disaster, so it was a moot point. So, I could be wrong with Cruise as Jor-el, but until I see it... who knows?

Kevin Costner should have been much much better in MoS. When I heard he was cast, I thought it sounded perfect. But it was crap.

[Metallo]

Jul 2, 2022 3:29:29 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Jun 30, 2022 2:21:40 GMT -5 atp said:

Do you think an older Tom Cruise would be a good Jor El if they reboot Superman?

He now definitely looks like he could be Superman's father, and particularly the Christopher Reeve version of Superman.

Brando had the same quality. He actually looked like an older version of Superman.

That is missing with actors like Russell Crowe and Angus McFadyen. I simply don't buy them as Superman's father.

I'm glad that I was too young to really be aware of Brando's history prior to seeing STM- otherwise I'm not sure if I could have had that 'clean slate' to accept him as Jor-el.

With Tom Cruise (and Ben Affleck)- It'd be too hard to see either of them in a superhero film as anything but Tom Cruise and Ben Afflekck.

But.... I admit sometimes something might just end up working for me, despite all my protests that it can't, I admit. (As an example, I never would have thought a Cobra Kai series was a good idea until it came out and suprised the heck out of me).

Crowe and Costner as Jor-el and Kent actually I thought were ok casting in MOS, but everything else was a disaster, so it was a moot point. So, I could be wrong with Cruise as Jor-el, but until I see it... who knows?

Yeah I thought they were both fine but such big stars it’s hard to look past them as them. Especially Cruise.

[Metallo]

Jul 2, 2022 3:35:42 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Jul 1, 2022 13:37:48 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Acknowledging these characters ages makes them more interesting and relatable. We’ve all gotten older so of course they should. Ignoring it and keeping the same status quo would be absurd at this point but too many movies still do that. It was fascinating to see Kirk admitting he was older in Star Trek II since he’s the type of guy that would have trouble accepting it. One of the flaws of the last few X-men movies was thirty years passed between First Class and Dark Phoenix and not only did no one point it out but it wasn’t worked into the characters at all. It took me right out of the movies.

I was actually so shocked that First Class and X-men Days of Future Past could wipe out the bad taste of X3- and give it a clean slate so to speak, that it was a minor miracle and I could forgive a lot. But- it's so sad that right after DOFP, Apocalypse blew it with its final act - and Dark Phoenix was bad from beginning to end. But--- given how X-men was a first ever live action superhero group movie, nice that there were more good parts than bad overall in the sequels as a whole that sprung out of one movie that might not have even made it from the get-go.

First Class really turned it all around. You’re right though. Too bad they squandered it. What surprised me was how quickly that happened and they just couldn’t pull up out of the nosedive they were on. It’s like it was destined for Disney to get the rights back when they did and the failure of the FoX-men universe and Fantfourstic just made it easier.

[Metallo]

Jul 2, 2022 6:45:02 GMT -5 atp said:

Jul 2, 2022 3:29:29 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I'm glad that I was too young to really be aware of Brando's history prior to seeing STM- otherwise I'm not sure if I could have had that 'clean slate' to accept him as Jor-el.

With Tom Cruise (and Ben Affleck)- It'd be too hard to see either of them in a superhero film as anything but Tom Cruise and Ben Afflekck.

But.... I admit sometimes something might just end up working for me, despite all my protests that it can't, I admit. (As an example, I never would have thought a Cobra Kai series was a good idea until it came out and suprised the heck out of me).

Crowe and Costner as Jor-el and Kent actually I thought were ok casting in MOS, but everything else was a disaster, so it was a moot point. So, I could be wrong with Cruise as Jor-el, but until I see it... who knows?

Kevin Costner should have been much much better in MoS. When I heard he was cast, I thought it sounded perfect. But it was crap.

He had a crap script and crap directing. You could tell Costner was struggling to find something good to say about MOS because during the press tour he focused on the technical side and the special effects. He was a director so he knew the characters and story were subpar.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 2, 2022 6:45:02 GMT -5 atp said:

Jul 2, 2022 3:29:29 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I'm glad that I was too young to really be aware of Brando's history prior to seeing STM- otherwise I'm not sure if I could have had that 'clean slate' to accept him as Jor-el.

With Tom Cruise (and Ben Affleck)- It'd be too hard to see either of them in a superhero film as anything but Tom Cruise and Ben Afflekck.

But.... I admit sometimes something might just end up working for me, despite all my protests that it can't, I admit. (As an example, I never would have thought a Cobra Kai series was a good idea until it came out and suprised the heck out of me).

Crowe and Costner as Jor-el and Kent actually I thought were ok casting in MOS, but everything else was a disaster, so it was a moot point. So, I could be wrong with Cruise as Jor-el, but until I see it... who knows?

Kevin Costner should have been much much better in MoS. When I heard he was cast, I thought it sounded perfect. But it was crap.

Snyder for art direction, I would have been fine with.
Goyer for a first draft would have offered some good ideas, think-

But if someone like Nolan took over from there - it MIGHT have been great. (I say 'might' after the horrific 'Dark Knight Rises'...)