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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 21, 2022 2:30:21 GMT -5
We chat about this is in bits an pieces on different threads- but thought to maybe concentrate it in one thread.
Feelings change over time, but currently here's how I feel about these actors as Supes:
#1: Welling-
Welling had a great presence as young Clark- and the Smallville-verse is really kind of its own thing. I know young kids that worship the show as it was their gateway to Superman and to superheroes, so it's hard to take it away from them.
I did think of Welling as a natural feeling mirror to Reeve's Superman... but the writing in the series started off as an interesting elseworlds' type of Superman series, and then became a hybrid of recycled soap (thin layered relationships that would get recycled and memory wipes and fake deaths)... but also some great episodes and seasons.
Welling's unwillingness to put on the suit might be a mixed blessing. I do kind of like his bit in Crisis, but the series itself kept on getting so removed from the source material, it was tough digestion.
#2: Routh-
Routh was chosen and encouraged to be Reeve's successor. He amazingly had similiar look and voice to Reeve- almost impossible right there- but oddly I did prefer Reeve's Superman and ROuth's Clark. But, hey, I was totally on board with SInger's plan at the time to continue and expand the Donnerverse. His appearance on Crisis I loved- and thought he actually fit the role even better with a number of years and dad-hood on him. HOpefully WB comes back to him while he's still in physical shape to still play Supes.
I don't know if Routh is a great actor, but he's the best Reeve-successor to Superman. He has the physical far more than any other actor I think currently.
#3: Cavill-
Having said that- I'm 'okay' as a runner up with Cavill (though open to a new face) to a lesser degree. Cavill was underserved by Goyer and Snyder's vision for Superman and Clark which to me didn't really fit.
I'm more comfortable with Cavill as Supes than Affleck as Batman. Nothing against Affleck, but I see the celeb more than the character.
#4: Hoechlin-
He gives it his all.... but he has a look that feels totally wrong to me as Supes.
One reviewer put it best: Superman should have a look that when he's in the room, you're only noticing him. When he and Welling had the scene in Crisis, Hoechlin was pretty invisible. I generally am more open when it's not iconic characters- but he just feels like an actor playing him rather than the character.
Maybe he looks more like Superman than Nicole Kidman- but.... I have to say, the unshaven look makes the argument even worse. Having said that, I did buy the blu-ray because of giant acclaim for the series.
So, I know I've said these here and there, but thought maybe nice to have a thread pulling it all together.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 21, 2022 13:41:21 GMT -5
This is a good one CAM since it’s all the guys who have spent any amount of real time playing the character in the 21st century. Since they’re all in a ten year age span of each other they could all theoretically play Superman right now if asked.  Welling was a pretty weak actor when Smallville began but he did get better. I don’t think he was outstanding but for what Smallville was he ended up being fine. He was pretty good at playing Clark’s young naïveté. I thought he did a good job playing an older Clark in Crisis too. It’s just a shame he still loathes the idea of putting on the suit. Routh had some natural Superman qualities that someone is just born with. He was also inexperienced and SR didn’t give him many chances to really act but when he did he was pretty good. When he got to get away from doing what Reeve did and do some things unique to his Superman he was even better. Crisis really gave him the kind of material that made him look even better. It fixed a lot of the criticisms from Superman Returns from his demeanor to the costume. I think this is when he may have jumped up to be the best modern/21st century Superman in my eyes. Cavill has the looks and the physique but he just didn’t seem to understand Superman from a psychological point of view. Worst off all he was given horrible material and direction. Playing Superman as a sometimes angry sometimes stoic god who grudgingly wanted to do good on his terms completely missed the mark. I don’t think any of these guys got it as wrong as Cavill. He got bigger opportunities than any of them and I’m just tired that we can’t seem to move on from him. Hoechlin is the most lacking physically but I think as far as his take on Clark and Superman it feels the most right. Like Routh he has some natural Superman qualities in his personality that just fit the character like a glove. What he was given in Supergirl was often inconsistent but he’s been given great stuff to work with on Superman & Lois. Like Routh letting Hoechlin play the character in uncharted territory in this time in his life is also a strong advantage. It lets him explore some fresh ground creatively. Superman the father is the payoff to things they tried to set up in Lois & Clark and Superman Returns. Superman & Lois gets to do that because those previous projects broke the ice on something a lot of fans resisted for a long time. For me it comes down to Routh vs Hoechlin for who is the best Clark/Superman of the last 20 years. If Routh had more time on screen I’d give him the nod. Hoechlin is getting the right time the right opportunities and the right support. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 22, 2022 0:33:10 GMT -5
This is a good one CAM since it’s all the guys who have spent any amount of real time playing the character in the 21st century. Since they’re all in a ten year age span of each other they could all theoretically play Superman right now if asked. Welling was a pretty weak actor when Smallville began but he did get better. I don’t think he was outstanding but for what Smallville was he ended up being fine. He was pretty good at playing Clark’s young naïveté. I thought he did a good job playing an older Clark in Crisis too. It’s just a shame he still loathes the idea of putting on the suit. Routh had some natural Superman qualities that someone is just born with. He was also inexperienced and SR didn’t give him many chances to really act but when he did he was pretty good. When he got to get away from doing what Reeve did and do some things unique to his Superman he was even better. Crisis really gave him the kind of material that made him look even better. It fixed a lot of the criticisms from Superman Returns from his demeanor to the costume. I think this is when he may have jumped up to be the best modern/21st century Superman in my eyes. Cavill has the looks and the physique but he just didn’t seem to understand Superman from a psychological point of view. Worst off all he was given horrible material and direction. Playing Superman as a sometimes angry sometimes stoic god who grudgingly wanted to do good on his terms completely missed the mark. I don’t think any of these guys got it as wrong as Cavill. He got bigger opportunities than any of them and I’m just tired that we can’t seem to move on from him. Hoechlin is the most lacking physically but I think as far as his take on Clark and Superman it feels the most right. Like Routh he has some natural Superman qualities in his personality that just fit the character like a glove. What he was given in Supergirl was often inconsistent but he’s been given great stuff to work with on Superman & Lois. Like Routh letting Hoechlin play the character in uncharted territory in this time in his life is also a strong advantage. It lets him explore some fresh ground creatively. Superman the father is the payoff to things they tried to set up in Lois & Clark and Superman Returns. Superman & Lois gets to do that because those previous projects broke the ice on something a lot of fans resisted for a long time. For me it comes down to Routh vs Hoechlin for who is the best Clark/Superman of the last 20 years. If Routh had more time on screen I’d give him the nod. Hoechlin is getting the right time the right opportunities and the right support. I'm glad that at least Routh got a little bit in Crisis. Sad that he wasn't asked to do the tv show.... but after listening to a podcast with Steven Amiel on what that entails to be a lead- and the hours involved year round, I could see how they might have assumed Routh wouldn't be interested, if they already were cutting him out of Legends. While the tv show is getting raves (I still have yet to view the blu ray I bought)- I doubt Hoechlin will get an opportunity for the big screen if Welling at the height of his popularity on Smallville was never considered. Rumoredly Cavill is being groomed back to the DCEU as Supes, but I'm so 'meh' on the DCEU, it would require a Routh or Bale to be put back into it for me to be that enthused. Having said that, I am looking forward to seeing Keaton in the Flash movie, which the buzz said was good despite a star that destroyed his own career publicly. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 22, 2022 9:34:54 GMT -5
Sounding more and more like the Cavill rumors are the usual internet bs to get the fans talking. The same thing happened every few months so some people can get clicks.
I think Routh would take any shot to play Superman again. I think plans are just so in flux right now with WB doing their own thing.
Hoechlin is doing great on tv so I’d like to see him stick to that. Let Superman & Lois have a proper run
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Post by atp on Jul 22, 2022 9:38:42 GMT -5
Routh looks amazing.
He has aged well. And really looks like Superman
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Post by Metallo on Jul 22, 2022 9:58:11 GMT -5
Routh looks amazing. He has aged well. And really looks like Superman I agree. I think he looks better now than he did 15 years ago. Routh looked too boyish back then for what he was playing. I think he need a little age and life experience on him. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 22, 2022 10:32:38 GMT -5
It’s a pity that all of us agree in Routh can’t get WB to agree....
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Post by Metallo on Jul 22, 2022 19:19:06 GMT -5
It’s a pity that all of us agree in Routh can’t get WB to agree.... When it comes to DC they haven’t agreed on much over the years. Of course they have no idea what they could be doing with Superman. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 22, 2022 19:50:07 GMT -5
It’s a pity that all of us agree in Routh can’t get WB to agree.... When it comes to DC they haven’t agreed on much over the years. Of course they have no idea what they could be doing with Superman. That's why I was so crazy-shocked when WB actually greenlit (it seemed) whatever Bryan Singer wanted to do with Superman Returns.... which it seemed really was responsible for getting the Brando footage released, and adjacent to that the previously unreleased Donner footage. In an alternate universe- where SR didn't happen and dvd sales still were going down, I doubt more and more that the Donner footage would have ever happened if not for WB greenlighting SR. As is, it's harder and harder to envision the expanded SII on blue will ever happen. (Though I hope I'm wrong) |
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Post by atp on Jul 23, 2022 10:46:48 GMT -5
This is a good one CAM since it’s all the guys who have spent any amount of real time playing the character in the 21st century. Since they’re all in a ten year age span of each other they could all theoretically play Superman right now if asked. Cavill looks like he hasn't aged well |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 23, 2022 12:47:47 GMT -5
This is a good one CAM since it’s all the guys who have spent any amount of real time playing the character in the 21st century. Since they’re all in a ten year age span of each other they could all theoretically play Superman right now if asked. Cavill looks like he hasn't aged well  Please insert CGI Cavill. Do it please.  No not that way! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 25, 2022 11:52:21 GMT -5
If nothing else, the recut JL should go down in history for the lamest use of CGI technicians ever in a Hollywood motion picture. "Mustache removal".... ugh.
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Post by Metallo on Jul 25, 2022 13:22:35 GMT -5
If nothing else, the recut JL should go down in history for the lamest use of CGI technicians ever in a Hollywood motion picture. "Mustache removal".... ugh. I feel bad for the cg artists because they probably didn’t have the most time or budget to remove the mustache but the final results were absolutely horrible. |
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Post by atp on Jul 25, 2022 13:37:51 GMT -5
Mr Thau please remove CGI moustache in JL scene
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 26, 2022 23:51:33 GMT -5
Mr Thau please remove CGI moustache in JL scene To this day I wonder who exactly was the stubborn one- Cavill or the studio for him not shaving it off and just pasting on a fake one for the other movie he was also working on. So ridiculous. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 27, 2022 11:46:10 GMT -5
Mr Thau please remove CGI moustache in JL scene To this day I wonder who exactly was the stubborn one- Cavill or the studio for him not shaving it off and just pasting on a fake one for the other movie he was also working on. So ridiculous. It was mostly Tom Cruise and to a lesser extent Paramount. They refused to budge on the mustache even though it was ridiculous. They grow back pretty fast. Cavill looks like his certainly does. It’s interesting to go back to see just how many comic book/superhero movies Tom Cruise has affected by wanting and getting his way on something. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 27, 2022 14:28:44 GMT -5
To this day I wonder who exactly was the stubborn one- Cavill or the studio for him not shaving it off and just pasting on a fake one for the other movie he was also working on. So ridiculous. It was mostly Tom Cruise and to a lesser extent Paramount. They refused to budge on the mustache even though it was ridiculous. They grow back pretty fast. Cavill looks like his certainly does. It’s interesting to go back to see just how many comic book/superhero movies Tom Cruise has affected by wanting and getting his way on something. As an aside, Cavill was GREAT in that Mission Impossible movie. It's easy to say, but I wonder if Cavill was either so afraid of Cruise that he was afraid to shave off the mustache or if he had been so detached with Snyder being kicked off of/quitting JL that he thought not to challenge any of his bosses by getting a razor out. I admire a lot of what Cruise has done- but that's one thing that's pretty damn silly if that is true about them holding the line on a mustache. What if the character was supposed to not have bathed? Is that something possible to put into an actor's contract? Bleaugh. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 27, 2022 15:12:27 GMT -5
It was mostly Tom Cruise and to a lesser extent Paramount. They refused to budge on the mustache even though it was ridiculous. They grow back pretty fast. Cavill looks like his certainly does. It’s interesting to go back to see just how many comic book/superhero movies Tom Cruise has affected by wanting and getting his way on something. As an aside, Cavill was GREAT in that Mission Impossible movie. It's easy to say, but I wonder if Cavill was either so afraid of Cruise that he was afraid to shave off the mustache or if he had been so detached with Snyder being kicked off of/quitting JL that he thought not to challenge any of his bosses by getting a razor out. I admire a lot of what Cruise has done- but that's one thing that's pretty darn silly if that is true about them holding the line on a mustache. What if the character was supposed to not have bathed? Is that something possible to put into an actor's contract? Bleaugh. I don’t think fear had anything to do with it. Contractually they wouldn’t let him make any major changes to his appearance that might affect shooting even though I think Fallout may have been in a break from shooting during that period. Cruise is known to take the rules seriously on his movies especially since he’s a producer. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 31, 2022 17:41:39 GMT -5
As an aside, Cavill was GREAT in that Mission Impossible movie. It's easy to say, but I wonder if Cavill was either so afraid of Cruise that he was afraid to shave off the mustache or if he had been so detached with Snyder being kicked off of/quitting JL that he thought not to challenge any of his bosses by getting a razor out. I admire a lot of what Cruise has done- but that's one thing that's pretty darn silly if that is true about them holding the line on a mustache. What if the character was supposed to not have bathed? Is that something possible to put into an actor's contract? Bleaugh. I don’t think fear had anything to do with it. Contractually they wouldn’t let him make any major changes to his appearance that might affect shooting even though I think Fallout may have been in a break from shooting during that period. Cruise is known to take the rules seriously on his movies especially since he’s a producer. Good point.... but considering the advancements in 21st century fake mustaches and the CGI costs to fix it.... I do wonder if anyone made a phone call to anyone to ask about this between studios, and who stood firm on the ethical line of actual organically-grown mustaches on film.  |
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Post by Metallo on Aug 1, 2022 15:48:05 GMT -5
I don’t think fear had anything to do with it. Contractually they wouldn’t let him make any major changes to his appearance that might affect shooting even though I think Fallout may have been in a break from shooting during that period. Cruise is known to take the rules seriously on his movies especially since he’s a producer. Good point.... but considering the advancements in 21st century fake mustaches and the CGI costs to fix it.... I do wonder if anyone made a phone call to anyone to ask about this between studios, and who stood firm on the ethical line of actual organically-grown mustaches on film. In all seriousness it all could be been avoided if both sides were willing to work something out instead of the typical Hollywood selfishness and posturing. |
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