MerM
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Post by MerM on Jun 26, 2009 13:38:43 GMT -5
You get the shovel, I'll get the microphone.
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Legsy
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Alright, alright, alright...
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Post by Legsy on Jun 26, 2009 14:09:11 GMT -5
So wrong. Funny, but wrong.
;D ;D ;D
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 27, 2009 13:08:35 GMT -5
The RDC- not the fan cut versions- (which are generally better)...
Tried to look at it 'fresh', since I hadn't looked at either the theatrical or any other full versions in awhile---
Found myself trying to step into Thau's shoes for a bit and see if I could more figure out his motivations for all his bizzare choices.
This time out, actually, I think I did get more why he did what he did--- and what he tried to achieve through some of the choices.
In removing the score in the Daily Planet attack, for instance, and adding the bit with Non crushing the camera, it is a bit more menacing- also the appearance of Supes on the flagpole without fanfare score was probably also supposed to keep that sense of menace by his sudden appearance- but the problem is just that, if Thau went in that direction, he still didn't cut it right- if the level of menace was supposed to rise and accelerate, he should have cut out the closeup of Perry's eyes blinking to suggest he wasn't hurt that bad, the extra Luthor bit "you ought to have him fixed" beat, and the unnecessary (in this context) bit of going to the newspaper vendor.
In other cases, the tone of the footage by Lester just doesn't match the tone that Thau seemed to try to convey by the cutting. Cutting comedic footage shorter doesn't make it more serious, it just made it shorter. (i.e.- the Honeymoon Haven scenes). Perhaps with Lester there might not have been alternate takes or footage for Thau to use to help shift the tone away from Lester's comedic take, very possible.
Still, it gave me a bit more sympathy for Thau when I rewatched the documentary and heard Donner's suggestion to move so fast past Lester's footage that you don't think about it too much. I can see that more clearly now, but the sacrifice is that it just makes it feel more truncated and sloppy, and shows how all the editing in the world can't totally fix the film to be REALLY what Donner intended. It's a futile gesture, if one aims for perfection.
Even giving Thau a 'pass' on the truncating of Lester scenes.....
The ultimate crime to me was seeing Thau unncessarily cut into Donner footage that was cut better (or uncut better) and mixed in the ABC-tv or IRC version- particularly a couple of lines that were really well delivered by Kidder in front of the FOS and on the Balcony.
The deleted scenes also are cut a little odd.... I assume that the 'North' scene was just scraps put together, as it's cut REALLY oddly between angles of Lex and Teschmacher.
Anyhow, ihavenolegs said it best: if you take the RDC as a bonus disc of deleted scenes/alternate takes rather than a real alternate version, then you probably have the most fun with it.
To me, it still feels like a fan cut- and has me curious if Thau would have done better or have done more damage to the RDC assembly, if he had more time to 'touch up' the RDC....
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jun 30, 2009 18:57:38 GMT -5
SII - fancut , maverick cut .
forgot i had this one !! LOL , not since jarjar has a movie warranted so much tinkering !
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Post by 1stelder on Jul 15, 2009 17:14:52 GMT -5
STM: The 2001 Thau Cut with the deleted "feed the babies"/Superman rescues Miss Teschmaker scenes. I watched it with my young niece who had never seen a Superman movie, cartoon or TV show before. I thought that would be the best introduction to my favorite superhero for her. She loved it, especially the "You've got me? Who's got you" moment.
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The Phantom Menace
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Sept 7, 2009 18:25:25 GMT -5
Has it really been this long since any of us have watched a Superman film?  I just finished watching Superman II (Theatrical). |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 20, 2009 16:27:50 GMT -5
^^^ naaahhh.... people just forget...  anyway, just wathed cam's amazing SII cut. |
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Sept 20, 2009 16:53:23 GMT -5
Me too! But the rest of the movies I probably won't watch until X-mas. I've been holding off like a good little boy so I can keep the movies fresh, without ruining the experience by over-watching them. It's hard for me to do, since I love the movies so much, that I used to watch them all about 3-4 times a year. That's a problem I have with movies I love, I can't just watch them once, I have to watch them A LOT!  |
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The Phantom Menace
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Oct 11, 2009 15:29:15 GMT -5
Superman: the Movie (2000 Expanded Edition) I've been on a bit of a superhero movie kick, so I figured I go with the original (though I'm not sure why I chose expanded over theatrical  ). |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Oct 12, 2009 17:58:43 GMT -5
Recently, in the last few weeks...
Viewed three anonymous (requested anonymity) fan cuts---
In general, what's good about watching others' cuts is that it helps restore a 'fresh' look at the material each time it's viewed, although I don't always notice the subtleties of choices between RDC and LC switches (others are far better at that than me- my ears are definitely not as good)- .
Anyhow, the new thought that comes up after viewing the three- is: Unless it's an extended version- and even then - there's SOMETHING that's lost (if it has to be somewhat logical), which is sad.
I think with time and the knowledge of how rare any Reeve/Supes footage is, there's a sense of wanting to keep every shred of film performance. With other films that have fan recuts, at least it's the same director (for the most part)--- with the Donner/Lester situation..... it's always a bit frustrating because even in the theatrical, there are things that just don't quite match to feel like a seamless work.
Wouldn't it be cool if the next animated feature from WB was actually Superman II as originally planned by Donner (using his storyboards/etc.?)? Maybe that would be the closest solution to seeing his vision at this point?
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Oct 13, 2009 11:32:15 GMT -5
I watched STM and S2 theatrical cuts (must be first time in around a decade I've watched these cuts properly) and I thoroughly enjoyed them both. I totally got into them again.
After the Donner cut debacle & awful Superman IV footage 3 years ago I walked away from Reeve Supes films for a while. It was time to revisit over the weekend.
I am sticking with theatrical S2 from now on - anything else is too distracting. I enjoyed S2 far more than I have done since finding out about its politics.
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Legsy
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Post by Legsy on Oct 13, 2009 11:33:44 GMT -5
Watched SR last night.
Still love it.
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The Phantom Menace
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Nov 1, 2009 2:04:25 GMT -5
Watched Superman III
Does anyone else find it a bit ironic that the triumphant Superman theme starts to play under Ken Thorne's credit in the opening titles?
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 2, 2009 12:47:22 GMT -5
Watched Superman III Does anyone else find it a bit ironic that the triumphant Superman theme starts to play under Ken Thorne's credit in the opening titles? Better him than Phyllis Thaxter's credit in STM. ;D |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Nov 9, 2009 16:22:57 GMT -5
superman returns ( theatrical ) .
it is beautiful. too long. i want to edit this.
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The Phantom Menace
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Eyes to the stage, pilgrim, she's just warming up.
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Nov 18, 2009 3:33:40 GMT -5
I watched Superman (Expanded Edition) w/ commentary by Donner and Mankiewicz
Much more enjoyable than their commentary for the Donner Cut of II, as there is less bitterness (though it does crop up when they discuss the sequel).
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 30, 2009 14:09:44 GMT -5
RDC... Thought if I gave it more time in between viewings, it would actually shine more. But.. Sadly, it has more in common (because of its truncated nature and cheap looking 'new' fx) with "Superman IV" in spirit, aside from the new footage. Because of the editing/odd music cues.... painful, sadly. Reedit WB. Please. I'd buy it. |
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Post by superman on Dec 3, 2009 10:40:01 GMT -5
SUPERMAN RETURNSIt was my 4th time on DVD ~ (I saw it 3 times at the movies) So my Lucky 7th time… I enjoyed it a lot more, than the previous times, (mainly because I have not seen this film in two years, I’ve actually documented my last viewing, it was 9th July 2007, my last viewing, and back then all I could do was complain about how they cheated in the flying scenes, for example… the flight with Lois… towards the end when you see the bridge, you can hardly notice them… then the next shot is upwards between two buildings… a cheat. Well tonight… I am use to that, so I simply enjoyed John Ottman’s score during that scene, as it is his best composition in the film, and the other small thing I noticed tonight is that we never see James Karen as Ben Hubbard, his name does appear in the opening credits though! So now when I looked up here: www.imdb.com/title/tt0348150/fullcredits#cast it says his scenes were deleted! Speaking of which, the deleted scenes should be on disc one! I need to complain – sorry – but I did enjoy the movie. 
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 3, 2009 16:48:35 GMT -5
Speaking of commentaries...
It's a pity that there wasn't a separate commentary by Stuart Baird for BOTH STM and the RDC!
Given that the more time passes, the more I realize how much of a contribution it was that Baird made to the series- given how he's had to look at the film footage ten zillion times more than even Donner- would love to hear HIS take on the series (and the RDC editing!) ;p
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Post by Jimbo on Dec 3, 2009 16:53:15 GMT -5
A Baird commentary for RDC? I can imagine...
"Wow, this editing sucks. Thau is a wanker."
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 3, 2009 17:15:07 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D Actually, I think the commentary sound more like this: "AAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"  |
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Post by superman on Dec 4, 2009 10:07:38 GMT -5
SII – THE RICHARD DONNER CUTSo, why didn’t I watch ‘The Donner Cut’ BEFORE watching ‘Superman Returns’ last night? Well, because I prefer ‘Returns’ to ‘The Donner Cut’ – and seeing Archival footage of Marlon Brando in ‘Returns’ left me thirsty to pop in my ‘Donner Cut’ DVD tonight. 'The Donner Cut', has it’s great moments, but on a whole, it’s edited so badly, that it feels like a ‘ slap’ in the face.  As many of you have probably mentioned – viewing the Donner Cut, is not to be viewed as a movie, but as a deleted scene. That was my 5th time of viewing it - and I still can't get over it - if Richard Donner had finished Superman II 'his' way - would it be better than Lester's version - I mean... that Paris opening sets the stage for what follows... and that is why a billion people out there who are not fans like us... think that part two is better than one! On the other hand - we would have had a 'fox' opening ;D! The Lester Version WINS!
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Dec 4, 2009 17:33:51 GMT -5
A Baird commentary for RDC? I can imagine... "Wow, this editing sucks. Thau is a wanker." ^^^ ;D Speaking of commentaries... It's a pity that there wasn't a separate commentary by Stuart Baird for BOTH STM and the RDC! Given that the more time passes, the more I realize how much of a contribution it was that Baird made to the series- given how he's had to look at the film footage ten zillion times more than even Donner- would love to hear HIS take on the series (and the RDC editing!) ;p another conspicuouse absence was the salkind/spengler commenary for so long. i LOVE it that we have it, but it was in 06, if we could ahve had that in 2000 like the first dvd i think it would have been better. spengler actually is very informative but seems tired and almost bored, i wish we could have gotten him in sooner when it was fresher. |
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The Phantom Menace
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Post by The Phantom Menace on Dec 4, 2009 21:04:14 GMT -5
I wish the Salkind/Spengler commentaries had captions to indicate who was speaking, because I can't keep their voices straight.
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Post by Jimbo on Dec 5, 2009 0:07:32 GMT -5
I wish the Salkind/Spengler commentaries had captions to indicate who was speaking, because I can't keep their voices straight. The loud one is Salkind. The bored one is Spengler. |
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