Superman II Story Confusion

[zoom]

I was always confused w/ how Clark got his powers back in the Lester cut, I tried to look up online and on here.


The only thing that I was able to come up with was the Crystal, but no explaintion or even on the commentary. Of course the Donner cut showed, but for everyone who hasn't seen it. I always presumed he just found a way.


I'm new here and I see STM referred to about, what does it stand for?

[Jimbo]

That's shorthand for Superman the Movie. Expect it everywhere around here. ;D

I guess we're supposed to believe that somehow the crystal gave him back his powers, then and there. I also think Ken Thorne's choir, which was in full swing at the time, contributed as well.

[Legsy]

Actually is was just Thorne's choir. The green crystal was just there to bring some color to an all white background.

In all seriousness, this was the biggest flaw of Lester's II. It just doesn't make sense. He just showed up and the crystal just gave him his power back. Sure it works for part IV mainly because part IV just doesn't work. But, for a continuation of STM it does not. Of course Lester is not to blame, it's the Salkinds doing really. It's all about the Benjamin's, and they didn't want Brando to get more.

[crazy_asian_man]

If I recall correctly, in the Lester-revised script, Supes holds the crystal, then there are visual fx that suggest that he's regaining the powers, and he falls to the ground.

So when they decided to just cut it as he looks up at what's left of the crystal console- either I assume the filmmakers wanted to (1) either suggest that he was going to put it in and talk to his folks again without showing it... or (2) they're suggesting that the crystal was all he needed to restore his power, without the console, or talking to his folks.

Since they were never going to pay Brando nor re-cast the part of Jor-el...
The only third option, I think, would have been Supes talking to Lara/Sussanah York about the problem... which would have just made the lack of a Supes/Jor-el relationsihp in SII seem even odder by including it.

Showing Supes/Clark holding onto the crystal and shaking with power, and falling to the ground might not have been that bad, but the act doesn't seem on the surface like it'd make for that emotional of a scene compared to a father giving up his life for his son- (*though, the way the RDC edited it totally butchered how emotional that scene coulda/shoulda been).

Maybe leaving it up to the audience's imagination was the best compromise, given all the things considered....

[Kamdan]

Back when I first watched this as a kid, I understood right away that the crystal was the last energy source from Krypton and it was transfered into Superman, thus regaining his powers. I liked how it was spared because he gave it to Lois. I didn't buy it in the Donner cut how it happened to be untouched. If that damn thing had enough power to build the fortress, why couldn't it repower Superman? Now, how the fortress had enough power to de-power the villians is another story... ;D

[The Phantom Menace]

Jan 7, 2009 12:34:48 GMT -5 Kamdan said:

I liked how it was spared because he gave it to Lois.

I agree. There's a nice bit of symmetry. Lois was the reason he chose to give up his powers, and by leaving that crystal lying on the ground (therefore not being destroyed with everything else), she's the reason he's able to get his powers back.

[crazy_asian_man]

I liked how it was spared because he gave it to Lois. I didn't buy it in the Donner cut how it happened to be untouched.

I always assumed that the green crystal was indestructable, and different by Jor-el's design, than the other crystals.

It's a nice point about the symmetry of Lois' saving the green crystal....still...At the same time, it's a little annoying that something that was one of the last remnants of an extinct planet got treated so casually by a top reporter. It's a suprise she didn't step on it by accident and break it, if she had such little regard for it. ;p

[Jimbo]

It was vintage 1979 Rat Lois. Lower your expectations. ;D

[Legsy]

I'm in the mood for a hot dog, hamburger (with everything on it) and a large orange juice, freshly squeezed.

[Kirok]

While the notion of Lois inadvertently saving the green crystal from destruction, and thus allowing Clark to get his powers back after giving them up for her in the first place is an interesting one, I don't like it b/c it trivializes everything too much. Basically what it's saying is that if Lois hadn't so casually left the crystal laying on the ground far away from its proper place then Clark could never have gotten his powers back. I agree with CAM, she should have treated it with more respect.

As for the Lester vs. Donner repowerings, everything about the Lester scene is superior except for the pay off. The presentation of the Donner repowering is just sorely lacking, even with the presence of Brando.

[albertd]

Jan 7, 2009 1:26:58 GMT -5 zoom said:

I was always confused w/ how Clark got his powers back in the Lester cut, I tried to look up online and on here.


The only thing that I was able to come up with was the Crystal, but no explaintion or even on the commentary. Of course the Donner cut showed, but for everyone who hasn't seen it. I always presumed he just found a way.


I'm new here and I see STM referred to about, what does it stand for?

In the original storyboard there are rays of light/energy coming out of the eyes of "hologram Jor-El". Those rays hit Clark while he yelled "Father!!" This was not exactly the way it was shown in the Richard Donner cut!

[Kirok]

Jan 7, 2009 16:52:27 GMT -5 @albertd said:

In the original storyboard there are rays of light/energy coming out of the eyes of "hologram Jor-El". Those rays hit Clark while he yelled "Father!!" This was not exactly the way it was shown in the Richard Donner cut!

Yes, this is what we all expected (because of the storyboards) and would have been far better than Clark having a seizure after being touched by a physical Jor-El who drifts/fades away. The repeated music in the scene didn't help either.

[EvilSupes]

One of the reasons why I still think the added Brando footage doesn't change my opinion of the Donner Cut. A lot of people say they only strength is the Brando footage but as much as I love Donner, give me Lester's cut anyday.

[Jimbo]

Yup.

Including the mother was a lame replacement to give Superman someone to talk to (and further the plot by explaining the villains), but from an emotional level, it really works well in the depowering scene.

[joey m]

I don't really get it in either version. That friggin crystal does everything. Except allow you to harness the awesome power of cellophane...hey wait...

[zoom]

Jan 7, 2009 12:16:38 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Maybe leaving it up to the audience's imagination was the best compromise, given all the things considered....

That's what I thought too, they were leaving it open for "movie magic" as they was no explaination for them having strange new powers either in the fortress fight.


Actually, this also got me thinking as I recall in one of the special features, they show a clip of Clark (de-powered) in a room full of reflections/mirrors. Was this a deleted scene? Or perhaps theyw were testing FX ways of giving him back his powers (or taking them away)?

[riderfan]

I know Lester's works because of the less is more approach. But, as I call it the Richard Donner 'rough' cut, who knows how the repowering scene would have worked if Donner finished it as intended 30 years ago, with better effects, Stuart Baird editing, and John Williams scoring it ! I think it could have been something else

I wonder what a Williams General Zod theme would have been like............

[Matt in the Hat]

Jan 7, 2009 21:35:15 GMT -5 zoom said:

Jan 7, 2009 12:16:38 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Maybe leaving it up to the audience's imagination was the best compromise, given all the things considered....

That's what I thought too, they were leaving it open for "movie magic" as they was no explaination for them having strange new powers either in the fortress fight.


Actually, this also got me thinking as I recall in one of the special features, they show a clip of Clark (de-powered) in a room full of reflections/mirrors. Was this a deleted scene? Or perhaps theyw were testing FX ways of giving him back his powers (or taking them away)?

It was a test for the depowering. I like the Donner Cut verson myself, as the Lester one looks cheap and cheezy with that skeleton thing in there.

And in general, Lester's Superman II always turns me off of it. Weird powers, rednecks, and english speaking frenchmen.

[Metallo]

If I recall correctly, in the Lester-revised script, Supes holds the crystal, then there are visual fx that suggest that he's regaining the powers, and he falls to the ground.

I always assumed it was a dramatic choice. Like not knowing exactly whats going to happen next and then you get the shocking and triumphant return of Superman. Its still confusing though. I cut IV some slack over the crystal the kiss, and new powers cause II introduced all that bullshit first and most people back then didn't seem to care to much.

[albertd]

Jan 7, 2009 16:58:31 GMT -5 Kirok said:

Jan 7, 2009 16:52:27 GMT -5 @albertd said:

In the original storyboard there are rays of light/energy coming out of the eyes of "hologram Jor-El". Those rays hit Clark while he yelled "Father!!" This was not exactly the way it was shown in the Richard Donner cut!

Yes, this is what we all expected (because of the storyboards) and would have been far better than Clark having a seizure after being touched by a physical Jor-El who drifts/fades away. The repeated music in the scene didn't help either.

I also think creating the re-powering special effects from the storyboard would have been cheaper than what we got in the RDC.

[crazy_asian_man]

In listening to Donner's commentary on the RDC, it sounds like out of everything, the repowering is something he's least happy about, and suggested that he would have brought Brando back for reshoots.

On a similiar note, it's too bad there wasn't a second disc for the RDC, with maybe Donner's storyboards placed in spots where Donner didn't get 1000% what he envisioned and script subtitles on the bottom of what should be happening for these gaps in what couldn't be shot.... sort of like what they do for rare films of the past, where lost bits could never be found, but only the boards still exist, so we could REALLY envision what was in Donner's head-.

It kinda works for older films I see on dvd where stuff is lost (Anyone here see "Metropolis"?) --- maybe storyboards and dialogue/text might have been less jarring than using bits of Lester footage that never really matched in any way tone-wise to begin with. (Villains rule the world in CGI...storyboards!)

[Jor-L5150]

it's a cop-out frankly.

you're sitting there scratching your head- and you are supposed to forget about it in a few minutes 'cause superman and zod throw down .

i realise donner would have reshot brando and reeve if he could- but i do like the explanation better than .." vagarie " .. they could have at least thron in some FX of superman/clark glowing w/ energy and maybe a Lara voieover warning him that he is absorbing the LAST of kryptons energy.

sure , the RDC is a bit clunky in its presentation- but given the myth-archetypes they were using it was appropriate.

didnt RKS use both lara and Jor in his fancut? i had it but gave it to a buddy and i dont remember.