Interview with Elliot S! Maggin

[stargazer01]

This is an awesome interview to this very famous Superman writer, as I understand. He talks about all his work he did on the Superman comics, his novels based on the Reeve movies, and just Superman in general.

And he also said this about SR,

"I liked Superman Returns. They did two things really deftly: (1) they dealt effectively with Superman's absence the day the Trade Center fell, much better than we ever did justifying his apparent absence during World War II, and (2) the disposition of the relationship with Lois was, I thought, just perfect and appropriately bittersweet. I hope the movie continuity progresses from that point."

Cool. Take that Grant Morrison!

supermanhomepage.com/comics/interviews/interviews-intro.php?topic=c-interview_maggin


I haven't read his Superman novels, are they worth buying?

[Jor-L5150]

i read one of his novels , it was pretty good- but deeply steeped in silver-age nuances.

[Valentine Smith]

Both of his novels, Last Son Of Krypton and Miracle Monday are basically the best Superman stories I've ever read.

Even though it's VERY much "bronze age Superman", with Clark working at WGBS and Superman having limitless powers, HOWEVER...

Intentionally or not, for whatever reason the way EVERONE speaks in those books, they sound exactly like the cast of STM. When you read them, you'll see them as they appear in STM. Luthor in particular steals the book. He talks like a cross between Gene Hackman and a cantankerous Robert Heinlein character (in fact, the pacing and tone of the books reminds me very much of Heinlein), and Maggin gets DEEP into the childhood friendship between Clark/Superboy and Lex.

As far as I'm concerned, no writer in the 70 year history of Superman has ever understood what makes Superman and his supporting cast tick the way Maggin does. You can get cheap paperback copies of these books for like, $2 if you look hard enough. BUY THEM BOTH.

[Jor-L5150]

Jan 23, 2009 19:55:38 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

Both of his novels, Last Son Of Krypton and Miracle Monday are basically the best Superman stories I've ever read.

Even though it's VERY much "bronze age Superman", with Clark working at WGBS and Superman having limitless powers, HOWEVER...

Intentionally or not, for whatever reason the way EVERONE speaks in those books, they sound exactly like the cast of STM. When you read them, you'll see them as they appear in STM. Luthor in particular steals the book. He talks like a cross between Gene Hackman and a cantankerous Robert Heinlein character (in fact, the pacing and tone of the books reminds me very much of Heinlein), and Maggin gets DEEP into the childhood friendship between Clark/Superboy and Lex.

As far as I'm concerned, no writer in the 70 year history of Superman has ever understood what makes Superman and his supporting cast tick the way Maggin does. You can get cheap paperback copies of these books for like, $2 if you look hard enough. BUY THEM BOTH.

funny you mention all that-
elliot maggin wrote " last son.. " in a hurry - when WB/DC comics realised they werent allowed to do a movie novelisation of the STM script ( it had something to do with licensing and that mario puzo was a credited writer ..probaby they were just cheap ).
ironically , puzo went to DC when the salkinds hired him and did extensive research on the vintage comics. evidently early drafts refelcted the slver/bronze age superman - but that was changed when surveys indicated that the traditional " daily planet " cast was more familiar than the " wgbs " angle.
strangely enough the BEST comic-book movie ever , deliberately avoided being TOO MUCH like the c.70's comics.

elliot was very clever to marry the comic book and film versions together so well.

[stargazer01]

Thanks for the info, Jor and Valentine.

So, is it true that in the novels Supes is so powerful that he even flies in deep space without any extra oxigen?

Valentine, so, do you consider Maggin a better Superman writer than even Alan Moore?

[Matt in the Hat]

I have considered Carey Bates a better writer than Maggin over the years. He brought so much into making the overpowered kryptonian version down to eye level. I can easily read something by him and not be overwhelmed by it, as opposed to other stories I've read over the years *coughcoughRedSoncough*.

Seriously, I think on his own merits, ES!M did an okay job. Ever read some of his other novels? Such as the unpublished Starwinds Howl and the Kingdom Come novelization? They're worth checking out too.

[Valentine Smith]

Gazer...Moore and Maggin aren't trying to do the same thing. I don't think Moore could have written hundreds of Superman stories the way Maggin did. He just wrote 2 of the best!

Maggin understands what makes Superman tick. He gets the Clark/Superman duality like nobody else. He gets what makes him human AND what sets him apart.

His Superman can fly in deep space without oxygen, can break the time barrier, can probably juggle planets...but it doesn't matter. These stories are about CHOICES that he makes. They're about WHY someone that powerful is the hero he is.

Christ, I'm drunk. This isn't the thread for me right now. But I love these books. His comic stories are great, but he dumbed 'em down compared to these novels. Imagine novels where the dialogue and the pacing feels like STM, but everything else is pure 1970-1985 Superman comics. HE EVEN BRINGS IN THE GUARDIANS FROM THE GREEN LANTERN COMICS.

Approximately every third chapter is a flashback to Smallville in the 1950s (keep in mind when these books were published in the late 70s...and they FIRMLY take place in that time period) and his development as Superboy. And the best thing is, they don't feel like comics in prose form, nor do they feel like movie tie-ins. They work purely as science fiction novels.

I could just go on and on, but I shouldn't.

[Kirok]

I'm intrigued by these novels now. Are they readily available or does one have to go out of his way to find old copies?

(Of course I got the Last Days of Krypton for Christmas last year and still haven't got around to reading it to I should probably do that first.)

[stargazer01]

Jan 24, 2009 1:51:07 GMT -5 Matt in the Hat said:

I have considered Carey Bates a better writer than Maggin over the years. He brought so much into making the overpowered kryptonian version down to eye level. I can easily read something by him and not be overwhelmed by it, as opposed to other stories I've read over the years *coughcoughRedSoncough*.

Seriously, I think on his own merits, ES!M did an okay job. Ever read some of his other novels? Such as the unpublished Starwinds Howl and the Kingdom Come novelization? They're worth checking out too.

Carey Bates? Never heard of him/her. Can you recommend any stories? I'm fairly new to the comics, ever since SR came out.

And it seems that you are a Dr. Who fan, eh Matt? I LOVE Dr. Who. I haven't seen most of the series over the many years, it just wasn't available for me, but the little I have seen, it's really cool and entertaining. Do we have a Dr. Who thread?

[stargazer01]

Jan 24, 2009 13:01:21 GMT -5 Kirok said:

I'm intrigued by these novels now. Are they readily available or does one have to go out of his way to find old copies?

(Of course I got the Last Days of Krypton for Christmas last year and still haven't got around to reading it to I should probably do that first.)

I'm intrigued too!

Valentine definitely knows how to express himself, even when drunk. ;D Just joking, Val. Thanks, mate. I'll try to find them; there aren't so many good Superman stories out there, and me loves a good Superman story.

Kirok, I still haven't read the Last Days Of Krypton either, and I own it. haha. I heard mostly good things about it, hopefully it will be worth it.

[Matt in the Hat]

I'll dig through some stuff and look for some issues of Bates' run. He was a writer on at the same time as Maggin on the Supes books.


Oh, and heck yes, I love Doctor who. I've been anticipating the new specials coming up soon. I've since gotten into the older stuff as well, like the early hartnell/Troughton years, Peter Davison's run and other stuff. I REALLY hope that rumor of Paul McGann is true, that we'll see some flashbacks in a coming ep.

[Shane]

My Mum picked up Last Son Of Krypton some time last year found it dirt cheap i read it enjoyed it dont think iwill read it again will pass it on to one of you guys if interested

[Jor-L5150]

there was an ebb and flow to the degree of superman's powers, just as there was an ebb and flow between the " camp " and " dark " batman.
so- all-in-all , its about a good story at hand. if its a good read- dont punish yourself by trying to reconcile continuity because over any 3 year span dc comics will care signifagantly LESS about contiunity than you do.

now - having said that - its true in the 60's and 70's superman had almost hyperbolic to the point it was like a lester movie with convenient-on-the-spot new powers all the time. it got ridiculous at times -
clark kent sits at the newsdesk of wgbs in a live broadcast , his superhearing detects the vibrations of an alien ship about to attack- uses his super-telepathy to activate a super-robot to dispatch the ship, with only the slightest distraction from his monlogue.

denny o'niell ( THE batman GURU of DC ) was handed the task of making superman " exciting " and less pastiche. he rejected the omni-god angle and and preferred a " labors of hercules " approach where superman had to struggle ( physically and emotionally ) to prevail . it was sort of a reboot-light that did not undue continuity- just made superman different . it lasted about a year before o'niel got bored.


( look and see superman eating kryptonite )

it was an amazing storyline , where kryptonite ( which had become a total gimmick ) was removed and a bizzare clone-like creature " permanately " leached supermans powers to about 50-60 % .
pretty heavy for the time. it was a great story and was adapted TWICE for other superman " continuities " . the fist was a one-shot special that put the story into the pre-doomsday byrne superman . the second was for the S:TAS comic.

[Valentine Smith]

Love that storyline. The first issue features an ICONIC Neal Adams cover, and the interiors mark the first official Curt Swan/Murphy Anderson art team on Superman...which lasted about the next 16 years.

Once O'Neill left, most issues were written by either Bates or Maggin. I love them both, and this era of Superman is my favorite of them all.

[Metallo]

Watching Superman chow down on inert Kryptonite was laugh out loud funny to me.

[Jor-L5150]

yeah but o'niell's downplaying of supermans power was more or less ignored therafter.

of course there was also the in-continuity reboot in ..about 82/83 i think where lex luthor got his power suit and became a benign dictator of his own planet , and brainaic lost his fruity look and became a scary looking skeletal android.

o'neil and the 83 were interesting to me because they didnt UNDO the whole history - just reset the premise. its a safe way to go , imo.
when byrne came along and the CRISIS happened everything was wiped away.

[stargazer01]

^Wow, you guys really know your stuff! I'm not worthy. ;D


OK, so in the same interview Mr. Maggin also said this on Supes and Lois relationship,

"I never thought he should marry Lois - no matter what Mort Weisinger promised a thousand years ago. I mean he "should" marry Lois in the sense of making an honest woman of her and all - but for storytelling purposes, they should never hook up successfully. Only tragically. Like Romeo and Juliet. Zeus and Leda. Batman and Talia. Know what I mean?"



And I just found this fantastic 2006 Boston Globe interview with Mr. Maggin, where he delves a little deeper into his thoughts on the movie:

By Kate Bolick | July 9, 2006

AFTER A LIFETIME of never giving Lois Lane a second thought, she sailed into my mind six months ago and stuck. Over dinner that night, I explained to a friend how Superman's girlfriend suddenly seemed to me one of pop culture's most fascinating and unheralded female figures: the iconic girl reporter, ambitious (even career obsessed), independent, attractive without being a bombsheck, not to mention her fantastically weird love triangle with Superman and Clark Kent. When my friend told me that ``Superman Returns" was scheduled to be released in June, and that he'd already downloaded the preview, I was confident that a conversation about the movie would figure into this girl reporter's future.

But a conversation with whom? Hardly an expert on the vast and complicated underground of Superman fandom, I wanted an interlocutor who was both intimate with and critically distant from Superman as a subject. But in the 70 years since that hot, sleepless night in Cleveland when two teenage boys, Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster, created the Superman character, DC Comics has employed scores of writers and artists, numerous television and movie adaptations have aired, and innumerable studies and papers have been published.

A bit of Lois-inspired sleuthing found me Elliot S! Maggin. A principal Superman comic writer from the early 1970s through the mid-'80s, and the author of three Superman novels, Maggin has thought a lot about our man in tights (as one might expect from someone who added a very super-hero-like exclamation point to his name). To verify my hunch that Maggin was an important player in Superman history, I sought out one of the literary world's comic authorities, the novelist Jonathan Lethem, who branded him ``the real deal." So I lined up the interview, ran out to see the movie (which was even more romantic and Lois-centric than I'd dared to hope), and the next day spoke to Maggin by phone in Los Angeles, where he writes screenplays and books and works as a software consultant.

IDEAS: Have you seen the new film? What did you think?
MAGGIN: I loved it! Isn't that appalling? There have been dozens of us writing this character over the past 70 years, and what the makers of this movie did was take the questions we've been asking and begin to answer them. I don't want to spoil it, but they resolved the Lois and Superman relationship much better than I would have ever had the chance to do. And I was glad to have Clark back to being bumbling, because that's the way I used to write him. The manners are the disguise, not the glasses or the clothes, and Brandon Routh did a great job with that.

IDEAS: Spiderman has become a pretty tough onscreen rival in the 20 years since the last Superman movie. Can Superman compete?
MAGGIN: I think it's the other way around. Superman is the personification of a recurring archetype that resurfaces in every dominant culture in human history, and this is the name and costume and aspect we've chosen for ours. Spiderman isn't a powered-down version of Superman. And Batman isn't a mortal version. They're different characters and they serve different purposes.

IDEAS: What does Superman personify?
MAGGIN: The values that the culture sees itself as having. I'm reminded of this great scene in the movie ``Nixon," when Anthony Hopkins, as Nixon, is talking to the portraits of old dead presidents hanging in the White House. He looks up at Kennedy and says, ``You were who they wanted to be. I'm who they are." Superman is who we want to be.

Superman is very Jeffersonian. He's a character that brings rural values to an urban environment. The next place to look is Frederick Jackson Turner and the frontier thesis. The fundamental values of the American community are born of the fact that we're always pushing against a new frontier. Well, here we are, with an alien immigrant, an orphan, who's everything we want to grow up to be.

IDEAS: If Superman is an archetype, who was Superman before Superman?
MAGGIN: Paul Bunyan. John Henry. Abraham Lincoln. George Washington.
IDEAS: You started writing Superman in the 1970s, while you were a junior at Brandeis. Back then, who did you imagine him to be?
MAGGIN: My first Superman story was called ``What Can One Man Do?" In it, the guardians of the universe planted the idea in Superman's head that he was a force for social stratification and dependence, rather than independence. They argued that in a world where there's a Superman, there's no despair: If you're trapped at the bottom of a mine shaft for three days, until the moment you drag your last breath you're thinking, ``Well, Superman is going to show up any minute now." The guardians believed that people needed to claim responsibility for their own mishigas. Every story I wrote after that point was a commentary on that first story. It defined my attitude toward the character.

IDEAS: That sounds a lot like the argument in Lois Lane's Pulitzer Prize winning article in ``Superman Returns," ``Does the World Need Superman?" Does this mean you're a fan of Lois?
MAGGIN: When I was writing Superman, I had lunch one day with Gerry Conway, who was writing Spiderman at the time. He confided that he was going to kill off Spiderman's girlfriend, Gwen Stacy, because he liked Mary Jane Watson better. I got real jealous that Gerry got to kill off a major character, so I decided to think through an idea of how I could kill off Lois and supplant her with somebody else. But that night, I had a pretty hefty dream about Lois. Let's just say I'd never been attracted to this woman before. So I kept her! And that was probably to my advantage, because she's a terrific character. In every incarnation, she's been the next version of the hard-ass great lady.

IDEAS: Is it fair to call Lois an archetype as well?
MAGGIN: I think she's two archetypes, actually. At some point she's the damsel in distress, the Cinderella or the Rapunzel who needs outside intervention to get rescued. But she's also Maid Marian and Joan of Arc, a woman with her own initiative and panache, who feels she needs this heroic man, but in the final analysis probably doesn't, really. That second archetype is the Lois I've had a crush on all these years, the character Kate Bosworth plays.

IDEAS: Who do you see as her real-world equivalents?
MAGGIN: Eleanor Roosevelt maybe. Alice Roosevelt Longworth for sure, Teddy's daughter who was having a dull White House wedding-dull until she grabbed an officer's saber out of its sheath and used it to cut the cake. Margaret Meade, who never did find a guy up to her standards but claimed she had four successful marriages. How about Melinda Gates, who actually taught her husband how to use his super powers?

Kate Bolick is senior editor of Domino Magazine. Her interviews appear regularly in Ideas. E-mail [e-mail].

www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2006/07/09/qa_with_elliot_s_maggin/


eh, what a fascinating man.

[Valentine Smith]

He's amazing, isn't he?

Read his novels! And then, find a copy of Superman #400, which I feel is his finest comic work.

[Jor-L5150]

i have a copy of " last son.." if you want to borrow it.
also- you should read the early " revamp " storylines . you can borrow those too if you need.

[stargazer01]

Val, thanks for the recommendation. Can I call you that way?

Jan 27, 2009 16:33:38 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

i have a copy of " last son.." if you want to borrow it.
also- you should read the early " revamp " storylines . you can borrow those too if you need.

You are refering to me, right?

[Matt in the Hat]

Seems I don't have too many issues of any Bates issues. If I remember right, I believe he did "The Sword of Superman" which appeared in a Superman Annual.

And I just remembered a 3 parter that was excellent by Maggin called "Who took the Super out of Superman?" This took a stab at the identities of Superman/Clark Kent. And the end points to one of the things brought up recently in the "Who is the real identity?" thread. Also took a stab at Pre-Crisis relations with Clark and Lois.

[fggafagas]

Jan 25, 2009 17:13:18 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

there was an ebb and flow to the degree of superman's powers, just as there was an ebb and flow between the " camp " and " dark " batman.
so- all-in-all , its about a good story at hand. if its a good read- dont punish yourself by trying to reconcile continuity because over any 3 year span dc comics will care signifagantly LESS about contiunity than you do.

now - having said that - its true in the 60's and 70's superman had almost hyperbolic to the point it was like a lester movie with convenient-on-the-spot new powers all the time. it got ridiculous at times -
clark kent sits at the newsdesk of wgbs in a live broadcast , his superhearing detects the vibrations of an alien ship about to attack- uses his super-telepathy to activate a super-robot to dispatch the ship, with only the slightest distraction from his monlogue.

denny o'niell ( THE batman GURU of DC ) was handed the task of making superman " exciting " and less pastiche. he rejected the omni-god angle and and preferred a " labors of hercules " approach where superman had to struggle ( physically and emotionally ) to prevail . it was sort of a reboot-light that did not undue continuity- just made superman different . it lasted about a year before o'niel got bored.


( look and see superman eating kryptonite )

it was an amazing storyline , where kryptonite ( which had become a total gimmick ) was removed and a bizzare clone-like creature " permanately " leached supermans powers to about 50-60 % .
pretty heavy for the time. it was a great story and was adapted TWICE for other superman " continuities " . the fist was a one-shot special that put the story into the pre-doomsday byrne superman . the second was for the S:TAS comic.

What were the limits of this powered down Superman? How much could he lift?

[stargazer01]

Jan 28, 2009 18:18:42 GMT -5 Matt in the Hat said:

Seems I don't have too many issues of any Bates issues. If I remember right, I believe he did "The Sword of Superman" which appeared in a Superman Annual.

And I just remembered a 3 parter that was excellent by Maggin called "Who took the Super out of Superman?" This took a stab at the identities of Superman/Clark Kent. And the end points to one of the things brought up recently in the "Who is the real identity?" thread. Also took a stab at Pre-Crisis relations with Clark and Lois.

Thanks, I'll try to find them.

[Jor-L5150]

Jan 28, 2009 1:13:19 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

Val, thanks for the recommendation. Can I call you that way?

Jan 27, 2009 16:33:38 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

i have a copy of " last son.." if you want to borrow it.
also- you should read the early " revamp " storylines . you can borrow those too if you need.

You are refering to me, right?

yeah- pm if you want to borrow some stuff. if not , then try ebay.

( a REALLY wish they'd do an " archive edition " of denny o'neil's superman )

[Jor-L5150]

Jan 29, 2009 4:30:50 GMT -5 @fggafagas said:

What were the limits of this powered down Superman? How much could he lift?[/quote]

he was approxamitley about what byrne would have had.
he was not omni-god , he could feel fatigue. the sandcreature/zombie basically leached his power about halfway.