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Post by Valentine Smith on Aug 29, 2012 10:18:00 GMT -5
I love the Rush Hour flicks. I think X3 is better than X1. And I think a Ratner-directed Superman flick using a rewritten version of the Abrams script would have been the most entertaining Superman movie of all time.
I'm not ashamed, and I'm not sorry.
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Aug 29, 2012 13:00:38 GMT -5
I'm with you Val. I love the Rush Hour movies and I'm looking forward to the 4th one. X3 was directed good.. the problem was with the script not the directing.
Ratner could do a good JLA movie.
The Wachowski's could do a good one as well, I'd love to see the colors brought from Speed Racer into a super hero flick.
I think what we really have to worry about is the script, if it's a good script and a director sticks to it and makes it look good, there won't be any problems.. I'm more worried about the script than a director at this point.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Aug 29, 2012 14:36:16 GMT -5
Ratner, in relation to Justice League, would be the poor man's Whedon. And if Justice League is even remotely like The Avengers, that's a win in my book.
X-Men 3 wasn't Ratner's fault. It was the speedy production that harmed it. And I love the Rush Hour movies...
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Post by starchild on Aug 29, 2012 18:18:06 GMT -5
Ratner, in relation to Justice League, would be the poor man's Whedon. And if Justice League is even remotely like The Avengers, that's a win in my book. Ratner would be an interesting choice here.
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Aug 29, 2012 18:30:40 GMT -5
Ratner, in relation to Justice League, would be the poor man's Whedon. And if Justice League is even remotely like The Avengers, that's a win in my book. X-Men 3 wasn't Ratner's fault. It was the speedy production that harmed it. And I love the Rush Hour movies... As much poop as Ratner gets (and I've made a couple jokes, I'll admit) he's a solid filmmaker.
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cypher85
New Member
Back off, man. I'm a scientist
Posts: 1,468
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Post by cypher85 on Aug 30, 2012 8:40:50 GMT -5
And he sure loves his shrimp cocktail
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 30, 2012 12:15:34 GMT -5
Ratner knows how to tell a comprehensible story, I'll give him that- and it was shot well enough, but.... I wouldn't go as far as to say that he's a very good film director, based on not just X3, but his other films as well (The first Rush Hour was good tv movie stuff, but found the other ones irritating and flat. His 'prequel/remake' for the Hannibal Lecter movie I didn't feel was nearly as good as "Manhunter" based on the same material from years earlier, too...)
The problem I had with his X-3 is/are the story/character choices he made/allowed to happen, dumbing down all the complex characterizations and interactions.
X-3's story was very much based on a melding of both the Dark Phoenix storyline and Joss Whedon's storyline with 'the Cure'---- (both of which were far more intelligently done in the comix)--- so turning good story material into inferior material I blame Ratner for. (Which is similar to my irritation with Zack Snyder. If it's original work that didn't have a good enough rewrite it's one thing, but the good material was ALWAYS there in the comics with Watchmen & Xmen)
Directors get to adjust scripts, he coulda/shoulda adjusted it to be smarter, imo.
X-men:First Class under Singer & the Kickass director apparenlty had LESS time to get made than X-3, so I don't think the rushed schedule was enough of an excuse, imo.
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Post by Jimbo on Aug 30, 2012 12:52:14 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Ratner had zero time to make script changes. For example, the moronic portrayal of Juggernaut was already set in stone with the casting of Vinnie Jones. Plus with the scope of the film - locations, sets, actor schedules, he probably had to shoot what he had to begin with.
Vaughn left the movie in March 2005, and Ratner took over shortly thereafter and somehow had the movie ready by May 2006. It's a minor miracle it's as "good" as it is. The entire movie was shot between August and December 2005, and all post-production was done by May. Very impressive.
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Post by starchild on Aug 30, 2012 14:27:03 GMT -5
Vaughn left the movie in March 2005, and Ratner took over shortly thereafter and somehow had the movie ready by May 2006. It's a minor miracle it's as "good" as it is. The entire movie was shot between August and December 2005, and all post-production was done by May. Very impressive. I did not know that Jimbo!That's remarkable that Ratner was able to do this ... and thanks for sharing it.
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Post by Matt in the Hat on Aug 30, 2012 17:56:41 GMT -5
I dunno about either the wachowskis or ratner. Matthew Vaughn, maybe?
It seems like a rather complex layout of characters that would need a very focused writer and director team.
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Post by Paul (ral) on Aug 30, 2012 18:18:09 GMT -5
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Post by Jimbo on Aug 30, 2012 19:19:30 GMT -5
To Ratner's credit, Matthew Vaughn left because he did not think he could get the movie done in time. Ratner had even less time, and he still pulled it off.
Sure, the story is crap, but the direction is ok. I don't fault it too much since the production was an uphill battle, Cyclops had to be written out, etc.
Still, it's all Singer's fault for ditching Fox to go make SR. ;D
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 30, 2012 19:43:36 GMT -5
In an interview after X-men:First Class, Vaughn talked about how, after he saw the final film, he realized that he really would have the resources (I presume money for rush fx) he thought he would have had to complete X3 even with the constraints of time.... and that, ironically, his shooting schedule was far more crunched on First Class than he would have been given for X3. (Would normally sound like bs, but Vaughn from what I read apparently doesn't mind pissing people off by being a fairly straight shooter, despite the fake excuse saying that his family didn't want him away for so long as the reason he was leaving.... something I read as an excuse for Darren Aronofsky leaving Wolverine 2--- and laughed my head off, that they recycled that bullpoope excuse) Singer could have been locked into a contract to do X3 soon after the success of X2, but wasn't. He's said that he would have been fine producing (much like X:First Class) and supervising X3 from afar, (If memory serves right, he said this at the Comicon convention) while shooting Superman Returns, (believable because he multitasked with "House" producing and seemed to be able to do it fine with "First Class" as well).... From what I read, 20th Century was just too pissed off that Singer took the Superman offer, rather than let him produce X3. Pity, but definitely glad they made up for Xmen First Class and the new sequel..... In hindsight, from looking at the Singer situation with the non-sequel, I guess we should be thankful that Donner at least was able to shoot half of SII before he left, than not at all...... at least we got a 'sense' of what Donner would have done with SII, whereas with SR 2, we only have the vaguest suggestions and speculation. (And maybe it's all we'll ever get at this point....)
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 6, 2012 12:59:38 GMT -5
sorry buddy! ;D i need to visit your place more often.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 6, 2012 13:13:32 GMT -5
i've never seen the rush hour movies- frankly i have always found chris tucker annoying and unfunny. jackie chan is charming though, if you guys are saying they're good i'll try to keep an open mind next time its on tv or whatever. i don't really care for X-3, but i don;t hold it against ratner that much. yes, it was just a terrible story. it was a dumb plot and dodgy script. is it better than X-1....? not sure. it certainly has some advantages: the cast is much more at ease in their roles (t hough stewart and mckellon are so good and so at ease with sci-fi/fantasy they didnt need any improvement), the production value is much much better so on those levels i think X-3 blows it out of the water. as to story i think X-1 is slightly less dumb. listening to the (barley comprehensible and inarticulate) commentary though, ratner acts like it's an epic masterpiece. one striking departure is the color palette which is much brighter than X1/X-2. he was good at "red dragon", but i doubt he has the talent to ruin a story and cast that good! all in all... i am not at all jazzed about ratner doing it- but if its a really good script then i wont have the degree of anxiety i initially had (and to a point still have) over snyder doing MOS. if MOS is a really good movie i'd like to see MOSII be concurrent with JL. going to have a sharp eye on "cloud atlas"
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 6, 2012 17:06:08 GMT -5
do. NOT. want(!) EXCLUSIVE: Warner Brothers Kicking Around The Idea Of Using LOBO In JUSTICE LEAGUE Recently the only Justice League movie news we have been getting is who may or may not be directing the movie, but it seems that Warner Brothers might be looking to amp up the story by including Lobo. Read more at www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JakeLester/news/?a=66855#JwR3k5IWMBq1RhmK.99 Warner Brothers is going to be looking to get the most bang for their buck when they finally get around to producing a Justice League movie. A while back I reported to you that DC will be working towards a shared universe with their next film, Man Of Steel. The Justice League film is said to bring DC Comics all-stars such as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Green Lantern together on the big screen. However, there might be one name added to the list. According to my source Warner Brothers is tossing around the idea of including Lobo in the film, that Will Beall is currently writing. It has not been disclosed whether or not Lobo would help or fight the League, but having them in there is sure to please some fans. This would not be a total shocker since they are currently developing a Lobo film with Brad Peyton handling writing and directing duties along with having Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson interested in playing the title character.
Keep in mind this is only in the brainstorming stage at the moment so it is not a done deal, and there is a possibility they may not decide to do it at all. There is currently no timetable on the Lobo project, but WB is wanting to get Justice League off the ground for a 2015 release date so it very well could be before then. For the latest on Lobo and Justice League make sure you check back here at CBM. Read more at www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JakeLester/news/?a=66855#JwR3k5IWMBq1RhmK.99
no. just...... no.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 6, 2012 18:05:48 GMT -5
(yawn)
Who's his "source?" Comic Book Guy? Please.
Guys. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. NONE of this has a shred of credibility. It's like the imaginary SR2 that was NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
By the way, does anybody have a lead on the Superman vs. Lobo treatment that Keith Giffen worked on about ten years ago? It was supposedly terrific, and I'd love to read it.
Basically, at one point, WB kicked around the idea of the new Superman movie NOT being "Death of" OR an origin story, but rather just an "early in Superman's career" type flick, and the first major powered threat he encountered was Lobo. As strange as it sounds, I heard nothing but good things from people who read it. And Keith Giffen rules.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Sept 6, 2012 18:51:01 GMT -5
;D
i'm just cuttin' and pastin' a link there!
generally yes, giffen is a good writer ...but i HAAAAAAATE lobo. even in S:TAS lobo is terrible and unfunny and annoying. worst ep's of the series.
i'd rather see a live-action "GREEN LANTERN: G'NORT & CH'P" or a sequel to halle barry "catwoman" than a live action lobo.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 6, 2012 19:24:01 GMT -5
Not a fan, either. Although I thought he was alright on S:TAS. His recent appearance on Young Justice was good, too.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 7, 2012 12:48:41 GMT -5
Hm... I think this is one of the few instances where we'll agree to disagree, Val. Loved Giffen's Perez-esque layouts early on, really enjoyed his early Legion art style- but his writing just rubs me the wrong way. I think hearing his 'justification' and glee for killing off the Karate Kid- twice- in the Legion just irritated me to no end.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 7, 2012 15:04:21 GMT -5
He's certainly a curmudgeon. I enjoy him, myself. You didn't enjoy his Ambush Bug minis?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 8, 2012 11:21:11 GMT -5
Loved Ambush Bug, but have a love/hate relationship with his Legion involvement.
What I do find curious is how sporadic his credits are post-Legion in comics. I wonder how these guys get their bills paid.... royalties on the old Legion books can't be THAT much!
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 8, 2012 12:25:14 GMT -5
CAM, I've been putting it off for awhile, but one of these days I'm doing a comprehensive inventory/re-visiting of my Legion books. We'll talk!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 10, 2012 22:11:02 GMT -5
CAM, I've been putting it off for awhile, but one of these days I'm doing a comprehensive inventory/re-visiting of my Legion books. We'll talk! That would be cool- looking forward to that! Definitely off-topic, but I recently introduced my 7 year old nephew to the Legion Archives (the 60's stuff) and he LOVES it bigtime. It's funny how the Legion had pretty solid specific stages that it went through- from the innocent 60's stuff- definitely targeted to 7 year olds, then the 70's stuff which was still fairly innocent, (Cary Bates/Cockrum/Grell era) but maybe geared a bit older (13-14 year olds), then the Levitz era (where the characters got a bit snottier to each other, but the love Levitz had for the characters and the universe was fascinating), then the post-Levitz era--- which was a total mess imo. Anyhow, got a feeling you've got the same big love for the Legion as I do--- but maybe moreso if you stayed with them post-Levitz....
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Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Sept 23, 2012 19:06:27 GMT -5
WB don't have a clue what they are doing. If it weren't for Avengers spurring them on this JLA would crash and burn just like the last time.
I doubt the Ratner rumor is true but if it is he's a gun for hire with no vision and a movie like JL needs vision. THE DC heroes are icons and they need to be presented as such. Beast was one of the best things about X3 and THAT can be attributed to Matthew Vaughn.
Ratner gets a partial pass for X3 because it wasn't his movie but while Red Dragon was competently directed it had no flare of its own even compared to the dated yet creative Manhunter. So far thats been arguably the best Ratners had to offer so it doesn't inspire me with confidence.
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