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Post by ChrisM on Nov 12, 2014 11:01:14 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 12, 2014 21:33:04 GMT -5
It's a good point. The sad truth is that now the 'age of superhero films' is pretty much here- the downside is that STM becomes more difficult to pitch to newer folks for how special it was. On the plus side- the cast, Williams' music, Donner's complex direction (those complicated camera moves done in-camera still amaze me), and the love story isn't interchangeable with other newer faces nor fx. Donner's sentimentality and perfectionism is so present in STM that what's nice is that there's just too much to STM that resists being lumped in as 'just another superhero film'.
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 26, 2014 11:50:04 GMT -5
Superhero movies wont be made like that again.... ever. So in that respect, STM will always stand out as different and unique, warts and all. Same can't be said for most of the superhero flicks that are made in this era -- they are all cookie-cutter formulas with the same pacing, look-and-feel, emphasis on visual overload and obligatory supervillain fight at the end. End result - they will be forgotten in a sea of clones. This is where oversaturation hurts the brand. I do wonder if we'll eventually see that bubble pop.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 29, 2014 3:03:26 GMT -5
Superhero movies wont be made like that again.... ever. So in that respect, STM will always stand out as different and unique, warts and all. Same can't be said for most of the superhero flicks that are made in this era -- they are all cookie-cutter formulas with the same pacing, look-and-feel, emphasis on visual overload and obligatory supervillain fight at the end. End result - they will be forgotten in a sea of clones. This is where oversaturation hurts the brand. I do wonder if we'll eventually see that bubble pop. I agree. The audacity of the risk when noone else even dared try something like this- then Donner's perfectionism made this special. I hope that STM doesn't get dismissed over time. Right now, there are a lot of good superhero films, but very few that feel like epics, like Donner's STM/part of SII. Even though I didn't care for it much at the time, to a much lesser degree I'd even say Burton's Batman feels epic.... but much of that feeling might be the drought of superhero films surrounding the Burton one as well. In any case, I'm glad I still never tire of seeing STM/SII...
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 15, 2014 15:44:39 GMT -5
I'm glad I still never tire of seeing STM/SII... Truthfully, I haven't sat through either movie in many years. SII is much less watchable for me at this point... that might change if I ever get around to downloading one of the fan edits. The closest I have come to watching anything Superman these days is playing the G-rated scenes from the STM blu ray for my 2-year-old.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 15, 2014 16:53:30 GMT -5
I'm glad I still never tire of seeing STM/SII... Truthfully, I haven't sat through either movie in many years. SII is much less watchable for me at this point... that might change if I ever get around to downloading one of the fan edits. The closest I have come to watching anything Superman these days is playing the G-rated scenes from the STM blu ray for my 2-year-old. Well.... I know I can never objectively look at either film. Much of it is the whole experience for me & the context of it when I saw it. Don't know if it can work at all with the newer generation- it might be considered too slow pace, too good-natured, fx too outdated, too silly, etc. etc. - But the charm of the leads I think/hope transcends time. It's a pity that it's next to impossible to really see what Donner really intended. oh well...
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Dec 16, 2014 12:55:18 GMT -5
It's funny you guys are talking about this since I was just thinking about this. Most superhero movies stumble in the third act. Especially the end. Even the best ones. Blade, Xmen The Wolverine Batman Begins and other all have things or points where it's like the writer just gave up to speed along the ending or they betray everything the movie was building too. That's thing I'll give Lester. II has a more satisfying ending than I.
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Post by ChrisM on Dec 16, 2014 16:51:14 GMT -5
That's thing I'll give Lester. II has a more satisfying ending than I. Amnesia kiss is just as absurd as spinning the earth backwards. That being said, the fan edits that let Lois remember makes a huge difference. It's one of the big reasons I'm curious to sit through a couple of the better fan cuts.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 18, 2014 1:00:37 GMT -5
That's thing I'll give Lester. II has a more satisfying ending than I. Amnesia kiss is just as absurd as spinning the earth backwards. That being said, the fan edits that let Lois remember makes a huge difference. It's one of the big reasons I'm curious to sit through a couple of the better fan cuts. The way Reeve described it sounded poetic. The original script (by the Newmans) had Supes give Lois a drink to forget (which REALLY wouldn't age well nowadays). The way it was filmed looked awkward and uncomfortable (if the discussion happened on the rooftop like SR, it might not have looked so cheap and awkward). I think even how time was turned back looked a little goofy, even under Donner. But, oh well....
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Jan 11, 2015 15:51:57 GMT -5
That's thing I'll give Lester. II has a more satisfying ending than I. Amnesia kiss is just as absurd as spinning the earth backwards. That being said, the fan edits that let Lois remember makes a huge difference. It's one of the big reasons I'm curious to sit through a couple of the better fan cuts. Not really. The amnesia kiss is silly but doesn't raise nearly the amount of questions that reversing the rotation of the earth does (if you take it literally). Shouldn't there also be TWO Supermen flying around IF hes also still fixing the fault line and the quake damage? There's got to be right? That's never really addressed at all. They're both examples of Deux ex machina at their worst but ones just insane. Ones arguably more morally reprehensible though.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 12, 2015 20:35:11 GMT -5
Amnesia kiss is just as absurd as spinning the earth backwards. That being said, the fan edits that let Lois remember makes a huge difference. It's one of the big reasons I'm curious to sit through a couple of the better fan cuts. Not really. The amnesia kiss is silly but doesn't raise nearly the amount of questions that reversing the rotation of the earth does (if you take it literally). Shouldn't there also be TWO Supermen flying around IF hes also still fixing the fault line and the quake damage? There's got to be right? That's never really addressed at all. They're both examples of Deux ex machina at their worst but ones just insane. Ones arguably more morally reprehensible though. We can all blame Puzo for coming up with the 'time reversal' in the first place. I'd read in a script synopsis in Mediascene decades ago that the time reversal destroys the Fortress of Solitude as a consquence.... but still hard to envision time reversal working in any scenario. Donner/Mank's approach of Superman being desperate for a solution and hearing his fathers' voices is great as it could be given how silly a mechanism it is--- but the problem is just that there's no real consequence to Supes happening. If it turned out to crack the phantom zone, at least there's SOMETHING that happens as a result of it.
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