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Post by EnriqueH on May 31, 2015 16:47:58 GMT -5
Can Donner's comments on anything be trusted after the Donner Cut of S2? What do you know about Donner?
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atp
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Post by atp on Jun 1, 2015 12:57:09 GMT -5
Can Donner's comments on anything be trusted after the Donner Cut of S2? What do you know about Donner? he lives like a king in hollywood. totally. self. sufficient.
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 1, 2015 14:59:53 GMT -5
After Superman, Donner obviously studied the principles and techniques of directing by George Lucas. He learned all about "faster" and "more intense" this served him well when he got to go back and do the Donner cut.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 1, 2015 15:46:50 GMT -5
After Superman, Donner obviously studied the principles and techniques of directing by George Lucas. He learned all about "faster" and "more intense" this served him well when he got to go back and do the Donner cut. The RDC is/was a disaster, though still glad that at least we got to see some of the never-before-seen footage. While we don't know how involved Donner was (reportedly by Thau, Donner was busy with 16 Blocks most of the time & never paid for his involvement) I still ultimately blame Thau for unnecessary cuts and changes to Baird's cutting, at the very least. Donner's core feeling about Superman in tone, though, I doubt has changed, even if his idea of pacing has.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 3, 2015 0:12:13 GMT -5
u dont really know who did what and who was ordered to do what. Donner put his name on this shyt for cash. I blame Donner totally. Donner complained that he didn't get paid a penny for his involvement & the interview with Thau said that Donner mostly was busy with 16 Blocks, but stopped by more, after Thau's work was underway. There are slivers on the Thau interview that give away who did what--- but it'd be nice to know more in detail.... In any case, there's the ABC/International Cut, the theatrical cut, and the RDC to do some comparisons and guesses. Thau said that he didn't touch the Baird cut material, but we can only form guesses what exactly was DOnner/Baird bits, until Thau decides to speak up again on this subject...
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 4, 2015 13:49:07 GMT -5
A lot of the Reeve-Brando scenes could be trimmed to cover Reeve's "theatrical" style in those early days of filming, and to trim some of the unnecessary dialogue, like the repeated, heavyhanded, "Look at me, Kal-El."
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atp
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Post by atp on Jun 4, 2015 17:13:28 GMT -5
A lot of the Reeve-Brando scenes could be trimmed to cover Reeve's "theatrical" style in those early days of filming, and to trim some of the unnecessary dialogue, like the repeated, heavyhanded, "Look at me, Kal-El." It isn't heavyhandes. It is emotional content.
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 4, 2015 20:27:11 GMT -5
Agreed. The "look at me Kal-El" line was great both times.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 4, 2015 20:53:07 GMT -5
Agreed. The "look at me Kal-El" line was great both times. Here's the blurb from the Mank script:
JOR-EL Now you have returned here to me for one last chance to redeem yourself. This too - finally - I have anticipated, my son. (pause) Look at me, Kal-El...
CLARK stares at him. JOR-EL'S eyes dance with light.
JOR-EL Once before, when you were small, I died while giving you a chance for life. And now, even though it will exhaust the final energy left within me...
CLARK (turns frightened) Father, no!...
JOR-EL Look at me, Kal-El!
I read the script long before the RDC and always imagined it as a loud line reading with urgency, as I figured JOR-EL was going to run out of time to deliver the message to Supes. Pity that the powers that be didn't include ALL the extra takes of Brando's short repowering scene. I can't imagine that filming this would have taken all that long for Brando's side.... (especially as he wouldn't even memorize lines but read them off a cue card...)
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 4, 2015 20:56:14 GMT -5
I too expected the second delivery of the line to be delivered more forcefully when I first read it in my head. Everyone also pictured Clark slowly gliding down to the molecular chamber instead of quickly zipping down tree.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 4, 2015 21:02:47 GMT -5
I too expected the second delivery of the line to be delivered more forcefully when I first read it in my head. Everyone also pictured Clark slowly gliding down to the molecular chamber instead of quickly zipping down tree. The dialogue that Reeve gives when he returns to the crystals I also imagined as much slower--- but, with Thau saying Donner preferred the 'faster faster' takes, I can't help but wonder if there were other Reeve takes where he approached the entire repowering scene much differently (and more effectively than blurting everything out somewhat fast and mumbly). Lester/Reeve's redo in SII is much less theatrical ("I failed...") and does more with less dialogue, I hate to admit- but given Donner's reputation for multiple takes on almost everything, here, too, I wish we got a chance to see the alternate takes, too....
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 4, 2015 21:20:30 GMT -5
It's possible that Donner only did tons of takes for STM and minimal takes for SII just to get it "in the can". He probably figured he could go back and do reshoots for SII to finesse it and get it up to STM standards.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 4, 2015 21:26:09 GMT -5
It's possible that Donner only did tons of takes for STM and minimal takes for SII just to get it "in the can". He probably figured he could go back and do reshoots for SII to finesse it and get it up to STM standards. Very true... But with Brando and Hackman, I think they had fixed windows of time in their contracts so Donner had to shoot all their takes asap. Aside: Another thing weird about Brando's contract, though, is that I can't understand why the Salkinds didn't think ahead of time if they didn't want to pay him percentage points on both movies. They assumed it was going to be a success- so, if they didn't want to give him that- why give Brando all that in the contract to begin with?
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 4, 2015 21:38:16 GMT -5
True about brando and Hackman.. although Donner did say in the SII commentary that he wanted to bring Brando back for reshoots... Also right before he got fired Donner also said (if I remember correctly) that SII was going to be bigger than originally planned and that he would maybe bring Hackman back.
Also I don't think anyone could accuse the Salkinds of planning the pictures very well.... they wasted a whole year before Donner even came on the project.
I'm betting they just offered whatever they had to just to get Brando on without thinking it through too well. However, they may have realized that they could have cut Brando out all along.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 4, 2015 22:03:49 GMT -5
It would have been interesting to see if bringing back Brando would have been the breaking point between the Salkinds and Donner, if it wasn't for the interview comments destroying the relationship earlier.
I seem to recall Brando being on board either attracting other investors or higher talent--- but in any case, if they didn't promise Brando points- maybe they would have kept Brando on?
(Though I remember a news article about lawsuits from the actors because the shooting wasn't done all in one fell swoop, but delayed for a time later, so that they were able to renegotiate for more $$$.... so, I guess I'm answering my own question that even if points weren't included as part of the package, Brando might have still demanded too much anyways)...
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jun 6, 2015 4:18:39 GMT -5
It is kind of ironic with all the blu/green screen shooting in contemporary flicks nowadays....that Christopher Reeve's and Marlon Brando's only scene together back in 1977 would be against......blu screen!!
This is where hiring someone like Brando could be a pain----he would not be available for the dates when the FOS was finally built which in my opinion compromised the quality of the re-powering shots----with obvious composite shots when Jorel appears in person to touch Supe's on the shoulder.
It could be another reason why no-one cared that much back in 1979 when Brando's re-powering scene was junked---- because of all the different optical elements that would have been involved would have made it very difficult to assemble effectively with 1978/79 film technology.
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Post by dehbum on Jun 6, 2015 8:14:07 GMT -5
Personally for me--it is not a question of whether the movie is fast or slow or video gamey or realistic--it is a question of ,for want of a better word-- "a vibe".
IMHO Zack Snyder films just have a flat feeling to them--as if there is no charisma. Lawrence Of Arabia and 2001 Space Odyssey are very slow moving films but they have a palpable sense of cinematic charisma that seeps into every frame.
So when that soldier in Man Of Steel says "they have got Superman in tow--the alien sir--that is what they are calling him--Superman".....it is said with so little emotion that the whole dialogue just falls "flat"!
I watched STM back to back with SII in 1981 and the audience atmosphere was electric.
I watched MOS in 2013 and the audience was just in a soporific trance.
To me, there are specific great things that MOS had that I give Snyder credit for in MOS, and other specific things that ruin much of the film for me. Most of it has to do with the awkwardness of the performances in the scenes- but this is some of the same awkwardness I noticed in some of the Thau-edited RDC scenes- so, that's why I've always wondered if I would be able to enjoy a good fan edit of MOS.... and Watchmen. To busy on there phones
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Post by dehbum on Jun 6, 2015 8:22:49 GMT -5
and here are the thoughts of Sarah Douglas and Valerie Perrine regarding Man Of Steel:
(apologies if this has been posted before)
Sarah Douglas:
I have to be honest in that I enjoyed the 1st half and I did not particularly enjoy the 2nd half. I felt like I was in a video game and it was all wham wham wham and it was all a bit too much and I really love Henry- I thought he was the hottest thing since sliced bread -thank you very much - however Christopher Reeve is still my Superman
Valerie Perrine:
I hated it!! (audience laughter) I hated everything about it-1st of all I fell asleep-and then all I saw was SFX and smashing into buildings-there was no story going on -there was no sympathy between characters-there was no character build up-it was just SFX and slam bam thank you mam.
Sarah Douglas: I have to say I really miss the humor- this new movie -I know the kids love it and a lot of people enjoyed but it is a different generation
watch more:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixgS2qm3AQ
Forgive me if I am wrong,but did this women not through Chris Reeve under the bus after he died? Pretty sure she did,I read this post from these 2 women and I see some old dames trying to live off some old fame and glory they once had
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zuperman
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Post by zuperman on Jun 6, 2015 18:17:30 GMT -5
Clark being repowered by Lara magically by love fits better the aura of the Fortress. This is more science-fantasy than science-fiction.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 22, 2015 18:35:25 GMT -5
and here are the thoughts of Sarah Douglas and Valerie Perrine regarding Man Of Steel:
(apologies if this has been posted before)
Sarah Douglas:
I have to be honest in that I enjoyed the 1st half and I did not particularly enjoy the 2nd half. I felt like I was in a video game and it was all wham wham wham and it was all a bit too much and I really love Henry- I thought he was the hottest thing since sliced bread -thank you very much - however Christopher Reeve is still my Superman
Valerie Perrine:
I hated it!! (audience laughter) I hated everything about it-1st of all I fell asleep-and then all I saw was SFX and smashing into buildings-there was no story going on -there was no sympathy between characters-there was no character build up-it was just SFX and slam bam thank you mam.
Sarah Douglas: I have to say I really miss the humor- this new movie -I know the kids love it and a lot of people enjoyed but it is a different generation
watch more:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixgS2qm3AQ
Forgive me if I am wrong,but did this women not through Chris Reeve under the bus after he died? Pretty sure she did,I read this post from these 2 women and I see some old dames trying to live off some old fame and glory they once had They seem to be echoing the thoughts of a lot of people younger than them and still in the business too. Paul Dini didn't seem to fussed about seeing the movie and Mark Waids thoughts are well know. Stamp didn't care for it and doesn't seem like Donner did either. You could also say at the same time these older folks aren't as in demand and have nothing left to lose so they can be onset whereas people still active in the industry have to kiss booty and not piss off the filmmakers or the studio.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 22, 2015 18:37:33 GMT -5
Thought Reeve's comments at 2:42 were particularly interesting and relevant right now with Man of Steel and Superman Returns. Particularly with Man of Steel because I think Reeve words are pretty relevant when it comes to that film.
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