|
Post by ChrisM on Apr 17, 2015 13:27:19 GMT -5
We've all beat the dead horse that is Superman II, but there are also a few fan cuts of STM floating around on the web. One of those cuts completely removed the missile hijacking sequences from the film... and the more I reflect on it, it just might be a case of addition by subtraction. Those scenes function completely independent of the overall narrative. Look at it this way, we never see them break into the museum, kill 2 guards and steal the kryptonite, and yet, nobody has ever complained about that.
So while it would've been interesting to reveal some details of this plot device to satisfy our curiosity, it's clearly not needed to move the story forward. One can even argue that the movie stalls during this exposition because the scheming is absurd in its simplicity... and they get away with it twice!
The edit flows something along these lines:
Eve turns away from the camera: "I wonder what they're wearing in Addis Abeba..."
We cut to the overhead flyover of the army convoy just as it is in the film, but then instead of cutting to Luthor's scheming, we skip over that and cut to Jimmy taking pictures/Lois' interview with the Indian... it's seamless because we've already established the western scenery with the convoy flyover and then Jimmy at Hoover Dam.
That being said, there is a brief opportunity later in the film to revisit the hijacking as Luthor explains to Superman: "I'll admit there were a few problems adjusting the precise trajectory of the missile... and finding the optimum stress point of the fault line itself..." -- that part of the dialog can be a voice-over where we show Tessmacher reprogramming one of the missiles (just enough to give us a flavor of what happened)
-- the voice-over cuts back to Luthor's close-up when there's a slight pause in the dialog before he resumes speaking: ".... which by the way is 'target zero' riiight... there."
So that's the gist of it. I think it takes a huge element of camp out of the film while also improving the pacing. What do you think?
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Apr 17, 2015 14:05:57 GMT -5
good idea.
anything that reduces the amount of lex and otis is a benefit
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 17, 2015 19:30:41 GMT -5
They should cut out Superman's first night out after the chopper rescue.. it's just random booty Superman hijinks which takes away from the core love story.
The flying sequence shouldn't be a half step either.... they should either have both Lois and Superman singing or cut it entirely.. no "poem talking" crap. On second thought just cut the sequence all together... all you need is Teschmacher holding up the "I Spent the Night With Superman" paper to get the point across.
Also cut Superman's scenes in Lex's Lair... it's hopelessly campy to have Superman interact with Lex when he could simply throw him into outerspace in a second.
Also cut the Superman saves random booty things in California.... more random booty Superman feats that no one is surprised or cares about.
And cut the sequence of Lois dying and Superman turning the world back.... too morbid and deus ex machines suck.
Finally nix when Superman drops Lex off in jail.... it goes against due process of law.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 18, 2015 8:51:19 GMT -5
I guess you don't really need to see it, but it certainly adds to the production value tremendously to see it.
The idea of hijacking a pair of rockets from the military versus the kryptonite from a museum- that sounds big scale enough enough of an idea that an audience member would want to see that to give the movie more credibility- though the camp I could have done without, for sure.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,843
|
Post by Metallo on Apr 23, 2015 13:04:35 GMT -5
It's not a must have for the story but it adds to the entertainment value. Hackman and Beatty had great comic chemistry.
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 24, 2015 1:39:40 GMT -5
It's not a must have for the story but it adds to the entertainment value. Hackman and Beatty had great comic chemistry. THIS 1000% Of course Hackman and Perrine had 0% comedic chemistry which was a shame.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 24, 2015 18:41:22 GMT -5
Would have been a nice counterbalance to how scary the performances SHOULD have been with the PZ criminals. They're quiet and chilling under Donner. The moon attack and the white house stuff is fantastic, at least we got that....
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 26, 2015 0:24:19 GMT -5
I also love how sickly Zod looks in the Donner scenes. Dark circles under eyes and pale skin.. really scary looking. In the Lester scenes Zod basically turned into a parody of himself.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 26, 2015 1:03:47 GMT -5
I also love how sickly Zod looks in the Donner scenes. Dark circles under eyes and pale skin.. really scary looking. In the Lester scenes Zod basically turned into a parody of himself. As I think was Lester's intent--- turning the PZ criminals into Lex and Otis.... but that was never Donner's intent, from looking at his footage and the Mank script. It really undermines the film imo.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,843
|
Post by Metallo on Apr 27, 2015 7:27:03 GMT -5
It was never intentional I think but I like to think being under the yellow sun made them more robust and improved their looks. I actually prefer the way Zod looks in the Lester footage. His look is less...I dunno...dated for lack of a better term. The bit of gray and slightly different hair just looked more badass to me.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Apr 27, 2015 10:48:35 GMT -5
in an interview, terence stamp said he had green paint on his face and was lit from belowto give him that pale look in the donner footage.
i always liked the fact that zod wasnt this huge strong looking guy. the fact that this pale frail-looking person was the head of kryptons military made him a lot more scary. either he was very very good at his job or else he was a psychopath. or maybe both!
i also prefer his voice in donners scenes. when he speaks quietly it makes him a lot more menacing. again gives the impression of a psychopath.
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 27, 2015 14:59:39 GMT -5
Yeah I hated Zod's look and behavior in the Lester scenes... the gray slicked hair feathered in the back the shiny red vinyl on the costume... calling Ursa "my dear" Examining the piece of pie (foreshadowing the 3 stooges slapstick that it to come in the Metro battle) I was even embarrassed for Zod when he calls Earth Houston on live TV. UGHHHH
Awesome about Zod wearing green face paint in Donner scenes... he did look sickly and scary especially when being sentenced by Brando.
I also preferred the british voice by Donner than the Lester dubbed deep voice... again more scary and villainous.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Apr 27, 2015 17:26:28 GMT -5
The worst thing Lester did was to ruin the villains in S2. It's like the way Freddy Krueger was ruined between the first Elm Street film and the later parts.
I think Ursa was ruined the least. Zod became a parody. And Non went from being a cold, scary looking monster in STM to a comical buffoon in S2 who made squeaking and grunting noises like a baby. Ursa seemed to be the most consistent.
That reminds me, who filmed the scene with Non playing with the metal balls in the white house? I will be disappointed if it was Donner.
And yes , WTF was up with the red stripes on Zod's costume? Were they in STM too?
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 28, 2015 5:36:08 GMT -5
The worst thing Lester did was to ruin the villains in S2. It's like the way Freddy Krueger was ruined between the first Elm Street film and the later parts. I think Ursa was ruined the least. Zod became a parody. And Non went from being a cold, scary looking monster in STM to a comical buffoon in S2 who made squeaking and grunting noises like a baby. Ursa seemed to be the most consistent. That reminds me, who filmed the scene with Non playing with the metal balls in the white house? I will be disappointed if it was Donner. And yes , WTF was up with the red stripes on Zod's costume? Were they in STM too? Yeah it was like Lester thought Zod and Ursa were lovers and Non was their retarded child. Actually Ursa was changed THE MOST... her whole character she went from an asexual man hating bitch to a woman who only wished to please her General. Also do you really need to ask whether it was Testicle-Lesticle who shot Non playing with his steel balls?
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Apr 28, 2015 7:18:53 GMT -5
The worst thing Lester did was to ruin the villains in S2. It's like the way Freddy Krueger was ruined between the first Elm Street film and the later parts. I think Ursa was ruined the least. Zod became a parody. And Non went from being a cold, scary looking monster in STM to a comical buffoon in S2 who made squeaking and grunting noises like a baby. Ursa seemed to be the most consistent. That reminds me, who filmed the scene with Non playing with the metal balls in the white house? I will be disappointed if it was Donner. And yes , WTF was up with the red stripes on Zod's costume? Were they in STM too? Yeah it was like Lester thought Zod and Ursa were lovers and Non was their retarded child. Actually Ursa was changed THE MOST... her whole character she went from an asexual man hating bitch to a woman who only wished to please her General. Also do you really need to ask whether it was Testicle-Lesticle who shot Non playing with his steel balls? The reason I ask is that white house scene has gene hackman in it. i thought all hackman footage was donner's.
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 28, 2015 9:26:58 GMT -5
In all seriousness yes.. the 'Non plays with his own balls scene' was probably Donner. Just because Donner was going to have the villains be serious 95% of the time didn't mean he wouldn't have ANY room for levity.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Apr 28, 2015 10:28:27 GMT -5
is it true that Donner was planning to have CGI villains for a CGI villains rule the world scene?
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 28, 2015 14:28:36 GMT -5
is it true that Donner was planning to have CGI villains for a CGI villains rule the world scene? He was planning to but you didn't say please.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 29, 2015 1:57:27 GMT -5
Yeah it was like Lester thought Zod and Ursa were lovers and Non was their retarded child. Actually Ursa was changed THE MOST... her whole character she went from an asexual man hating bitch to a woman who only wished to please her General. Also do you really need to ask whether it was Testicle-Lesticle who shot Non playing with his steel balls? The reason I ask is that white house scene has gene hackman in it. i thought all hackman footage was donner's. I don't think the beginning of that white house scene was Donner- I think- much like the DP attack- the Donner stuff starts with Hackman shaking the white hankerchief, but the stuff preceding it put in by Lester. Reasons: 1. The script specifically had Non look out the window to see the shattered Washington monument. 2. The script also had (off camera) Ursa kill another man, then be in the room. 3. The look of Ursa is greatly different & the dialogue, too- totally contradicts the Mank script. In the Mank script, Zod actually had a plan. I don't know why the RDC left the beginning stuff in by Lester.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Apr 29, 2015 2:58:59 GMT -5
Did anyone else think Ursa said, "You're master of all U.S. of A"?
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 29, 2015 3:24:47 GMT -5
I thought she said 'use of a'
Also wat was Ursa playing with? I always thought it was supposed to be a model of our solar system
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 29, 2015 13:18:13 GMT -5
Did anyone else think Ursa said, "You're master of all U.S. of A"? Yeah, I did, too. Here's the original opener to the White house bit in the Mank script: INT. WHITE HOUSE OVAL OFFICE - DAY ZOD stares out the window at the destroyed Washington Monument. NON stands in front of a wall mirror, wraps the Presidential flag around himself with a contented growl. There is a terrible scream from O.S. which suddenly cuts off. USRA enters through a side door, her chest considerably more decorated than before. URSA I'm bored with this puny planet. The men here do not even try to resist anymore. ZOD Then leave. There are dozens of other life systems nearby. Find one that suits you. There is a knock on the door. They turn. So.... we know that it changed, because NON isn't wrapped in a flag- but it looks like Donner switched it to Non looking out through the window to stare at the destroyed monument. The violence may or may not have been toned down for Ursa (Would Donner have shot the bit with Ursa walking into the room and sitting on the desk if he stayed? It's not the first case of missing bits), but I doubt that Donner would have made Zod bored with ruling the world, so I still feel (plus Ursa's face & hair look a bit different) it's Lester's footage. There's an extended speech in an earlier speech by Zod that suggests he planned more in ruling the world...
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 29, 2015 19:44:20 GMT -5
So how come Thau didn't put in the first part of the scene?
I guess it would make sense that Donner shot it... it is kinda weird that Ursa says "I told you this was a puny planet." When we never heard her tell Zod it was puny in the first place.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by atp on Apr 30, 2015 2:07:31 GMT -5
So how come Thau didn't put in the first part of the scene? . Not enough people said please.
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,134
|
Post by crown on Apr 30, 2015 2:51:23 GMT -5
The biggest sin was Thau simply gave up looking for Donner's completed blank bullets scene and opted to just use the screen-test instead. He would have tried looking harder but no one asked him nicely.
|
|