crown
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Post by crown on Sept 20, 2015 4:09:48 GMT -5
Every Superhero movie needs a scene where we see the character donning the Suit or transforming into the hero! In MOS, SII Donner Cut, and SIV, we never see Clark transform into Superman. They need to spell it out to less intelligent folks that Clark is Superman.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 20, 2015 20:59:16 GMT -5
Every Superhero movie needs a scene where we see the character donning the Suit or transforming into the hero! In MOS, SII Donner Cut, and SIV, we never see Clark transform into Superman. They need to spell it out to less intelligent folks that Clark is Superman. I don't know if they need to spell it out, but it's an exciting bit (or at least it usually can be, unless shot badly).
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Post by supermanrecut on Sept 21, 2015 11:40:56 GMT -5
Every Superhero movie needs a scene where we see the character donning the Suit or transforming into the hero! In MOS, SII Donner Cut, and SIV, we never see Clark transform into Superman. They need to spell it out to less intelligent folks that Clark is Superman. Good point pointing out that we never actually do see Clark turn into Superman in the Donner Cut, as Im sure most fan edits do somehow include a changing into Superman scene. As for MOS- no, we never actually SEE CK turn into Superman, but it couldnt be any more spelled out that he IS Superman. Jor el shows him the suit, & 1 second later we see him step out of the ship wearing the suit, so Im sure no one watching the movie said to themselves- "Who the heck is this guy in the suit?" It couldnt be anmore clear that it is Clark. & in SIV, we DO see CK turn into Superman. In the subway scene when he steps into the photo booth, & exits as Superman. Of course, technically, if your a fan of the series, it is likely that people who have seen the sequels have seen the first one, so anyone who has seen the first one who watches the sequels definitely know CK is Superman, so theoretically the sequels wouldnt NEED a "Lets remind the audience who Superman is" scene. But of course for me personally, the more cool CK into Superman transformation scenes, the better
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crown
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Post by crown on Sept 21, 2015 14:27:00 GMT -5
& in SIV, we DO see CK turn into Superman. In the subway scene when he steps into the photo booth, & exits as Superman. I would dispute this. In SIV we don't SEE the transformation Clark just goes in the booth and then some as$hole in a Halloween costume comes out... what if it was a different person who came out of the two seater-booth?? We need to SEE the change... shirt rip/ glasses removal/ even the clothes fading away nonsense after the STM window jump would work.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2015 18:13:59 GMT -5
I would dispute this. In SIV we don't SEE the transformation Clark just goes in the booth and then some as$hole in a Halloween costume comes out... what if it was a different person who came out of the two seater-booth?? We need to SEE the change... shirt rip/ glasses removal/ even the clothes fading away nonsense after the STM window jump would work. Even in the comics, it was THE panel that was probably the most interesting to draw back in the day. I don't know so much about nowadays...
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Post by ChrisM on Nov 2, 2015 11:28:02 GMT -5
Every Superhero movie needs a scene where we see the character donning the Suit or transforming into the hero! In MOS, SII Donner Cut, and SIV, we never see Clark transform into Superman. They need to spell it out to less intelligent folks that Clark is Superman. Transformation scenes have been killed to death to the point where it feels like an obligation or a foreign object in the eye. It was done perfectly in STM... it was the original groundbreaking scene and they nailed it... but now every superhero film thinks they need a shirt-rip or something. Don't get me wrong. Superman is a character that thrives on the dual persona... and those transformation scenes will never be outdated IF they are executed with taste and complement the narrative. If you're going to insert a transformation, there needs to be a proper build-up... and the stakes need to be high enough to warrant the attention... otherwise it detracts more than anything. When we transformations in other superhero films - they just feel like rip-offs and frankly, it just looks out of place.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 2, 2015 15:24:19 GMT -5
Every Superhero movie needs a scene where we see the character donning the Suit or transforming into the hero! In MOS, SII Donner Cut, and SIV, we never see Clark transform into Superman. They need to spell it out to less intelligent folks that Clark is Superman. Transformation scenes have been killed to death to the point where it feels like an obligation or a foreign object in the eye. It was done perfectly in STM... it was the original groundbreaking scene and they nailed it... but now every superhero film thinks they need a shirt-rip or something. Don't get me wrong. Superman is a character that thrives on the dual persona... and those transformation scenes will never be outdated IF they are executed with taste and complement the narrative. If you're going to insert a transformation, there needs to be a proper build-up... and the stakes need to be high enough to warrant the attention... otherwise it detracts more than anything. When we transformations in other superhero films - they just feel like rip-offs and frankly, it just looks out of place. Agreed. While it's not exactly the same- The 'suiting up for action' bits in superhero movies seem to get weaker and weaker as time goes by. The Avengers 2 had a bit before the finale - but it wasn't really edited in a way that gave it as much power as the director sounded like it SHOULD have had in the commentary for it.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 5, 2015 16:46:04 GMT -5
I think a problem is a lot of films just kind of throw away the opportunity. They either don't do it right or don't do it at all. With Superman I do think we need to see it once in a film but done right. Don't need it all the time but more than any other hero his change into costume is iconic. When all other heroes with similar costumes do it they tend to be inspired by Superman. Plus it's an actor legacy thing. Reeves did it. Reeve did. Etc. Its like Bond saying "Bond. James Bond." Every guy has to try it at least once. As for other heroes copying it the comics did it before there ever was a superhero film. Tv shows did too. Even Billy Bateson transformed into Captain Marvel on the big screen before Christopher Reeve was even born. It's a classic element of the genre.
Even though we don't see him change I love it when Cap walks up the hill, the music swells, and it's revealed he's wearing the WWII uniform in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. You don't see him actually putting it on but it's a great "hero" moment.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 12, 2015 10:33:22 GMT -5
I think a problem is a lot of films just kind of throw away the opportunity. They either don't do it right or don't do it at all. With Superman I do think we need to see it once in a film but done right. Don't need it all the time but more than any other hero his change into costume is iconic. When all other heroes with similar costumes do it they tend to be inspired by Superman. Plus it's an actor legacy thing. Reeves did it. Reeve did. Etc. Its like Bond saying "Bond. James Bond." Every guy has to try it at least once. As for other heroes copying it the comics did it before there ever was a superhero film. Tv shows did too. Even Billy Bateson transformed into Captain Marvel on the big screen before Christopher Reeve was even born. It's a classic element of the genre. Even though we don't see him change I love it when Cap walks up the hill, the music swells, and it's revealed he's wearing the WWII uniform in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. You don't see him actually putting it on but it's a great "hero" moment. I agree- but I think Donner & Mank knew how to do it best (as usual): that there had to be some variation to give it energy. Just in one film, of course- there's the buildup to the phone booth- (rip phone booth) that becomes the revolving door- but there's also the change from Clark hearing the dog signal to leaping out of the side of the building (which I actually thought was pretty cool, though Donner hates it in the commentary). Singer tried sort of the same thing with SR- by starting with the run/shirt rip- but by trying too hard to suprise the audience, overdid it by having that infamous 'Clark forgets his shirt in the DP storage closet and changes there without anyone noticing' (which I still would have loved to have seen anyways, so odd that they left it off the dvd)--- then reworking the run through the alley to sloppily put back the 's' shirt underneath.... it was a poor misstep. Didn't kill the film, but killed the moment. But then again- he did have a cool thing with the elevator change- but imo it was lessened, there, too, by not having the 's' fill the shirt when Routh zooms up towards the camera. So- I guess what I'm saying is that it is fine to have a 'shirt rip/superhero costume reveal' or 'suit up montage'- but - just like action scenes - you can never have too many of them, but it depends on the imagination of the filmmaker to make it feel fresh every time.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 12, 2015 13:43:07 GMT -5
Well of course. Don't just throw it in there just to have it. It should be a memorable moment. Batman 89 had its classic suiting up sequence as well. It should be done just right. There's a lot I like about Superman returns but Singer bungled the costume change except in that elevator change. That was a new way to do it on screen that I don't think I'd ever seen before. I'll also admit I really liked some of the shirt rips on Lois & Clark.
It'll be interesting to see if and how Cavills Kent does it wearing a wetsuit under his clothes
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 12, 2015 14:20:39 GMT -5
Well of course. Don't just throw it in there just to have it. It should be a memorable moment. Batman 89 had its classic suiting up sequence as well. It should be done just right. There's a lot I like about Superman returns but Singer bungled the costume change except in that elevator change. That was a new way to do it on screen that I don't think I'd ever seen before. I'll also admit I really liked some of the shirt rips on Lois & Clark. It'll be interesting to see if and how Cavills Kent does it wearing a wetsuit under his clothes I liked the elevator change- but it just needed that extra closeup (imo) to make it perfect.
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