crown
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Post by crown on Aug 23, 2016 5:14:44 GMT -5
Completed fortress scenes would have been nice but THE great missing link of Donner's film is definitely his two hotel room scenes.
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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 23, 2016 6:16:45 GMT -5
What can I say? I like trees.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 23, 2016 10:02:39 GMT -5
Cutting out Donners crappier scenes...like turning back time. Again.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 23, 2016 10:39:12 GMT -5
One of the biggest 'hits' that come from the Thau/Donner cut is the middle section with the Lois/Clark/Supes romance.
What's sad is that all FOUR scenes by Donner were actually pretty important.
Going by the Mank script- The first two- make Lois more likeable and gives Reeve/Kidder a couple of really great moments (particularly the sadly unshot first Honeymoon Haven scene where Lois pushes Clark to practice kissing her- with disastrous results)
The second two with the home movies- is far more personal, as it is the 'real' first kiss between the two (if you don't count the kiss when Lois 'dies' in STM) and it removes the slightly oddball speech that Supes (and is confusing) about his Clark/Supes role and replaces it with something more sentimental.
Still- If there could ONLY be a couple of additional DONNER scenes to get shot that hadn't- I'd choose these:
#1- The Zod speech/Washington monument scene with a montage of villains conquering the world
#2- The first scene with the Honeymoon Haven
Followed immediately by the metro battle-
Again.... if there was any 3d (or even regular at this point) animated feature I could choose to get made, it would be to have Mank's Superman II translated into it- you could use the same audio tracks recorded from SII- and Terence Stamp and Sarah Douglass could help fill in the dialogue for the villain portions not shot.
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 23, 2016 20:46:53 GMT -5
As much as I would have liked to see Donner scenes between Superman and Lois in the fortress after she knows he secret, I think it would have been better having both hotel room scenes instead.
These two hotel scenes would have connected the Daily Planet Jump (that exists as an island really... the next Donner Lois and Clark scene is the DINER for crap sakes!) to the rest of Donner's film.
Wasn't there some blurry photo that suggested maybe.. just maybe.. Donner shot some material in Niagra??
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 24, 2016 0:40:17 GMT -5
As much as I would have liked to see Donner scenes between Superman and Lois in the fortress after she knows he secret, I think it would have been better having both hotel room scenes instead. These two hotel scenes would have connected the Daily Planet Jump (that exists as an island really... the next Donner Lois and Clark scene is the DINER for crap sakes!) to the rest of Donner's film. Wasn't there some blurry photo that suggested maybe.. just maybe.. Donner shot some material in Niagra?? The documentary showed that everything was well organized in notebooks as to what was shot- so, sadly- probably not.
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 24, 2016 1:13:38 GMT -5
As much as I would have liked to see Donner scenes between Superman and Lois in the fortress after she knows he secret, I think it would have been better having both hotel room scenes instead. These two hotel scenes would have connected the Daily Planet Jump (that exists as an island really... the next Donner Lois and Clark scene is the DINER for crap sakes!) to the rest of Donner's film. Wasn't there some blurry photo that suggested maybe.. just maybe.. Donner shot some material in Niagra?? The documentary showed that everything was well organized in notebooks as to what was shot- so, sadly- probably not. Well somebody needs to say it.. IT WAS A DUMB DECISION AND MADE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER TO SUSPEND FILMING OF SUPERMAN II Why on Earth would they film 70% of the movie and not bother filming the remaining 30% while they already had all the elements in place and the machine going??? I can understand filming the first 30% and then suspending the remaining 70% of the work to finish later... but once you do anything the initial 70% it's dumb not to just plow the rest of the way through. It's isn't worth the cost of shutting down and then starting back up again just to do that last 30% that you could have done earlier. If it was a matter of time, they could have easily delayed the film 6 months to the summer of 1979. They would have had time to fix legoland too.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 24, 2016 7:01:34 GMT -5
Because Donners stuff looked like something Non wiped his @ss with.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 24, 2016 11:39:35 GMT -5
The documentary showed that everything was well organized in notebooks as to what was shot- so, sadly- probably not. Well somebody needs to say it.. IT WAS A DUMB DECISION AND MADE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER TO SUSPEND FILMING OF SUPERMAN II Why on Earth would they film 70% of the movie and not bother filming the remaining 30% while they already had all the elements in place and the machine going??? I can understand filming the first 30% and then suspending the remaining 70% of the work to finish later... but once you do anything the initial 70% it's dumb not to just plow the rest of the way through. It's isn't worth the cost of shutting down and then starting back up again just to do that last 30% that you could have done earlier. If it was a matter of time, they could have easily delayed the film 6 months to the summer of 1979. They would have had time to fix legoland too. Donner said that Lester suggested it- but I imagine Lester was negotiating with the Salkinds all along to try to replace Donner during that time gap, and wanted to set everything in place during that time for a transition. Lester seemed to have 'no' career then and there. What better way to be in the spotlight again?
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 24, 2016 13:45:27 GMT -5
Because Donners stuff looked like something Non wiped his @ss with.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 24, 2016 15:37:11 GMT -5
Well somebody needs to say it.. IT WAS A DUMB DECISION AND MADE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER TO SUSPEND FILMING OF SUPERMAN II Why on Earth would they film 70% of the movie and not bother filming the remaining 30% while they already had all the elements in place and the machine going??? I can understand filming the first 30% and then suspending the remaining 70% of the work to finish later... but once you do anything the initial 70% it's dumb not to just plow the rest of the way through. It's isn't worth the cost of shutting down and then starting back up again just to do that last 30% that you could have done earlier. If it was a matter of time, they could have easily delayed the film 6 months to the summer of 1979. They would have had time to fix legoland too. Donner said that Lester suggested it- but I imagine Lester was negotiating with the Salkinds all along to try to replace Donner during that time gap, and wanted to set everything in place during that time for a transition. Lester seemed to have 'no' career then and there. What better way to be in the spotlight again? Interesting CAM....I think Lester knew when he told Donner to ditch SII and complete STM.......that it would be him(Lester) that would actually do the completion(of SII). Donner was taken for a ride. But there maybe some physical contemporary evidence(by no means definitive but incredibly intriguing) that plans were already afoot even during the completion of STM......that someone else would be coming back to finish off SII. In the making of Superman The Movie by David Michael Petrou, there is a very interesting observation made by Petrou on page 191: I was dubious. I had noted,taped to the side of one of the cameras,along with the chronology of the other films photographed by this particular camera, an addendum" Superman-1977& 1978 & 1979 & 1980 & 1981"Was it possible that someone knew something about this picture that I didn't?Petrou made this observation in March 1978......and even he seems stunned. Someone in Pinewood had already locked off a Panavision camera that would be used for the completion of SII. Could this have been someone associated with Lester? Should probably start a new thread dedicated to this one.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 24, 2016 17:42:43 GMT -5
Donner said that Lester suggested it- but I imagine Lester was negotiating with the Salkinds all along to try to replace Donner during that time gap, and wanted to set everything in place during that time for a transition. Lester seemed to have 'no' career then and there. What better way to be in the spotlight again? Interesting CAM....I think Lester knew when he told Donner to ditch SII and complete STM.......that it would be him(Lester) that would actually do the completion(of SII). Donner was taken for a ride. But there maybe some physical contemporary evidence(by no means definitive but incredibly intriguing) that plans were already afoot even during the completion of STM......that someone else would be coming back to finish off SII. In the making of Superman The Movie by David Michael Petrou, there is a very interesting observation made by Petrou on page 191: I was dubious. I had noted,taped to the side of one of the cameras,along with the chronology of the other films photographed by this particular camera, an addendum" Superman-1977& 1978 & 1979 & 1980 & 1981"Was it possible that someone knew something about this picture that I didn't?Petrou made this observation in March 1978......and even he seems stunned. Someone in Pinewood had already locked off a Panavision camera that would be used for the completion of SII. Could this have been someone associated with Lester? Should probably start a new thread dedicated to this one. That's interesting- I have the book, but don't remember all the details. What I do remember is a newspaper article regarding all the main actors suing for more money because both movies were supposed to be filmed back to back in one swoop, according to the contracts. So.... allowing a big delay between filming wouldn't have been wise, unless the Salkinds (and Lester) already weighed out the costs of doing so and the costs of removing Donner and replacing him with Lester. Costwise, it also would have been cheaper to keep the original scenes, stick to mostly Mank's script, and shoot as little as possible- UNLESS Lester had in his head that he really did want to take full credit for the thing as well. Hence, rewriting it, dumping the DP jump scene, and changing it up. (the replacing of Jorel could have been done by recasting easily with a lookalike- but, if you wanted to move away from Donner's choices as well.... made sense to rewrite and go back and get Supes' mom to finish it up. Sorta.)
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 25, 2016 3:38:18 GMT -5
Where is Lester these days?
I think we should physically confront him and ask why he conspired to steal Donner's film.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 25, 2016 9:27:07 GMT -5
Where is Lester these days? I think we should physically confront him and ask why he conspired to steal Donner's film. ...and you alone promptly get your @ss kicked by an 85 year old man because no one else went when they realized how crazy your plan sounds. Just don't corner him in the bathroom, ok?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 25, 2016 10:21:46 GMT -5
Where is Lester these days? I think we should physically confront him and ask why he conspired to steal Donner's film. I think the Superman 2006 documentaries laid out the facts and made Lester look bad enough as it is. Add to that, having contemporary directors come out and say how much the DONNER Superman films influenced them, should also be enough for Lester to realize how history is going to regard his actions. I can't help but think: if Lester gave Donner a call, stuck to the Mank script (as much as possible), tried to stay true to the original director's tone- that Donner could have kept credit, Lester still would have gotten his money- and who knows? As is.... everyone still is talking about Superman and Donner, (and will always be as long as the character continues), nobody is jumping up and down about a Hard Day's Night.
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 25, 2016 13:49:03 GMT -5
Where is Lester these days? I think we should physically confront him and ask why he conspired to steal Donner's film. ...and you alone promptly get your @ss kicked by an 85 year old man because no one else went when they realized how crazy your plan sounds. Just don't corner him in the bathroom, ok? I just mean we should form picket lines outside his house until he comes out and explains himself.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 25, 2016 15:25:08 GMT -5
...and you alone promptly get your @ss kicked by an 85 year old man because no one else went when they realized how crazy your plan sounds. Just don't corner him in the bathroom, ok? I just mean we should form picket lines outside his house until he comes out and explains himself. Ah...then the cops can kick your @ss... ...and make fun of you afterwards.
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 25, 2016 15:53:09 GMT -5
I just mean we should form picket lines outside his house until he comes out and explains himself. Ah...then the cops can kick your @ss... ...and make fun of you afterwards. Superhero Lives Matter???
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 25, 2016 21:02:51 GMT -5
Just because you're some weirdo who walked out of the house in spandex it doesn't make you a superhero.
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 25, 2016 21:11:47 GMT -5
Just because you're some weirdo who walked out of the house in spandex it doesn't make you a superhero. What DOES make someone a superhero? Not a hero, a superhero.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 25, 2016 21:20:42 GMT -5
Not being some guy who spends his time spamming a message board with loads of stupid posts because he's got nothing better to contribute?
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 25, 2016 21:22:17 GMT -5
Not being some guy who spends his time spamming a message board because he's got nothing better to contribute? So you're saying that you're a superhero? That's an extraordinary claim.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 25, 2016 21:26:07 GMT -5
Nope. Just saying what makes one NOT a superhero.
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crown
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Post by crown on Aug 25, 2016 21:28:28 GMT -5
Nope. Just saying what makes one NOT a superhero. Who IS a superhero?
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