Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 21, 2017 19:29:01 GMT -5
Thinking out loud...
If Donner hadn't been removed from SII-
Would we have ssen that 'superhero movie genre' surge much sooner?
What might have been gained/lost?
This is a rough guess...
* 1980: Superman II comes out with Donner at helm, more in line with the Mank script.
My guess is that the 'memory kiss' does come into play- as it wasn't in the script by Newman (Newman has Supes use his heat vision on a glass of water that he then gives to Lois), but suggested by Reeve.
I wasn't that bothered by the kiss, as I was by the execution of the scene by Lester and company. (Also, by that time in the film, they also made Lois kind of annoying) My money is that Mank and Donner would have had some more elegant way to execute this. Verisimilitude had a brilliant way of making this 'memory loss' in his fan cut heartbreaking rather than an awkward, goofy moment by showing a montage of Lois's memory loss. Maybe something similar would happen.
In any case, SII comes out and makes MORE money than it had originally. Reviews are even more spectacular.
* Because of the giant box office-
1982: - Mank writes/directs SIII- with Brainiac as a villain, Steve Lombard and Cat Grant added to the daily planet, and possibly Supergirl as an element.
1985: - Mank pushes Batman as well. Batman is on the fast track as SIII is a smash. Superman IV starts production.
1988: - Mank's Batman is a giant hit as well, with an unknown actor named Ray Liotta as Bruce Wayne/Batman. Rumors of a Batman vs. Superman comes up. Superman IV is released, written by Mank, directed by Donner. Sketchy details, but Parasite and Luthor are villains, Lana lang get involved.
1991: - Batman II and Superman V are both released as giant hits. Other studios want in on the action. "Spiderman" finally crashes through all its legal hurdles, instead of the "Abyss", James Cameron directs this, while producing "Wolverine and the X-men".
1995: - WB wants another giant franchise. It begins production on "Wonder Woman", with newcomer Naomi Watts, Richard Donner as producer.
Spiderman, X-men, Batman, and Superman movies continue to succeed at the box office.
1997: - "Second tier" superhero characters are considered for their own films, like Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America. After Wonder Woman's success, "Justice League" under George Miller is considered. Hollywood tentpoles are only/mainly superhero films.
2000: - Hollywood has to be even more competitive and starts investing in bigger budgeted superhero films shot back to back. Crossover studio superhero films are considered.
As the actors for many of these franchises get older, rather than reboot with new actors at the helm, Hollywood decides to instead work with the comic companies and instead move to next generations of said characters, rather than undoing past movie history and strengthen franchises that way instead.
2017: - Almost every major DC/Marvel superhero franchise has had a hit film made out of it. Now Netflix is working to reboot all of them but in long form tv series.
Anyhow- more a pipe dream than anything else, but.... in looking back, I guess (relatively speaking) it's still amazing that superhero films have come as far as it has even if Donner's firing derailed the 'superhero movie movement' by a few decades. Thank Raimi and Singer- then Feige I suppose for that.
If Donner hadn't been removed from SII-
Would we have ssen that 'superhero movie genre' surge much sooner?
What might have been gained/lost?
This is a rough guess...
* 1980: Superman II comes out with Donner at helm, more in line with the Mank script.
My guess is that the 'memory kiss' does come into play- as it wasn't in the script by Newman (Newman has Supes use his heat vision on a glass of water that he then gives to Lois), but suggested by Reeve.
I wasn't that bothered by the kiss, as I was by the execution of the scene by Lester and company. (Also, by that time in the film, they also made Lois kind of annoying) My money is that Mank and Donner would have had some more elegant way to execute this. Verisimilitude had a brilliant way of making this 'memory loss' in his fan cut heartbreaking rather than an awkward, goofy moment by showing a montage of Lois's memory loss. Maybe something similar would happen.
In any case, SII comes out and makes MORE money than it had originally. Reviews are even more spectacular.
* Because of the giant box office-
1982: - Mank writes/directs SIII- with Brainiac as a villain, Steve Lombard and Cat Grant added to the daily planet, and possibly Supergirl as an element.
1985: - Mank pushes Batman as well. Batman is on the fast track as SIII is a smash. Superman IV starts production.
1988: - Mank's Batman is a giant hit as well, with an unknown actor named Ray Liotta as Bruce Wayne/Batman. Rumors of a Batman vs. Superman comes up. Superman IV is released, written by Mank, directed by Donner. Sketchy details, but Parasite and Luthor are villains, Lana lang get involved.
1991: - Batman II and Superman V are both released as giant hits. Other studios want in on the action. "Spiderman" finally crashes through all its legal hurdles, instead of the "Abyss", James Cameron directs this, while producing "Wolverine and the X-men".
1995: - WB wants another giant franchise. It begins production on "Wonder Woman", with newcomer Naomi Watts, Richard Donner as producer.
Spiderman, X-men, Batman, and Superman movies continue to succeed at the box office.
1997: - "Second tier" superhero characters are considered for their own films, like Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America. After Wonder Woman's success, "Justice League" under George Miller is considered. Hollywood tentpoles are only/mainly superhero films.
2000: - Hollywood has to be even more competitive and starts investing in bigger budgeted superhero films shot back to back. Crossover studio superhero films are considered.
As the actors for many of these franchises get older, rather than reboot with new actors at the helm, Hollywood decides to instead work with the comic companies and instead move to next generations of said characters, rather than undoing past movie history and strengthen franchises that way instead.
2017: - Almost every major DC/Marvel superhero franchise has had a hit film made out of it. Now Netflix is working to reboot all of them but in long form tv series.
Anyhow- more a pipe dream than anything else, but.... in looking back, I guess (relatively speaking) it's still amazing that superhero films have come as far as it has even if Donner's firing derailed the 'superhero movie movement' by a few decades. Thank Raimi and Singer- then Feige I suppose for that.