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Post by Kamdan on Feb 3, 2017 8:32:28 GMT -5
Has anyone else read his book? I learned a few new tidbits like how Albert Finney and Christopher Plummer were the initial choices for General Zod. James Robards was the original choice for Perry White, but he was rather dismissive towards the idea of a Superman movie. Pick it up if you can!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 3, 2017 9:56:35 GMT -5
Do you mean Jason Robards? I didn't know about that but I can see why they wanted him after the huge sucess he had with a similar role (obviously different tonally) in All The Presidents Men. Nah I've never read it but It sounds like a fascinating read.
Christopher Plummer is another one as an interesting choice for Zod. He did a fine job playing General Chang years later in Star Trek VI so I think he could have done something entertaining with the role of Zod. He played a somewhat villainous character opposite Christopher Reeve a few years later in Somewhere in Time.
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 3, 2017 15:25:19 GMT -5
Oh, pardon me, you're correct. Yeah, their basis to cast him was based on All the President's Men. When they tried to convince them that Brando and Hackman were in it, he said, "Well, that's their problem."
I had the same thoughts about Plummer. Finney through me through a loop though. So glad we ended up with Stamp.
Mankiewicz also gave word about how the Newmans and Benton reacted to his rewrite of the script. He called Benton and he gave him his grace, saying he had no attachment to the material. After the film came out, he said that David Newman called him and congratulated him on his work and that he was proud to have his name on it. However, Mankiewicz later read an article with Newman claiming that their script was merely edited down and not rewritten. Mankiewicz then quipped that his work on Sheena served them wrong about their writing abilities.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 3, 2017 16:27:47 GMT -5
That doesn't surprise me. Benton is a talented guy in his own right. I'm not sure what the Newmans did of note outside of Superman. Seems like they just got hired because they worked on the musical which was almost the opposite of what Donner wanted to do.
I'm a little shocked they didn't even consider Ed Asner as Perry White. The MTM show ended in 1977 so maybe they could have worked out a schedule. Maybe they thought he was too tied to comedy at that time. The Supergirl tv series has basically made Karas boss Snapper Carr into a Lou Grant clone with Kara subbing for Mary.
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 3, 2017 19:22:57 GMT -5
Newman was Benton's long time writing partner. They worked on Bonnie and Clyde and What's Up, Doc together. Benton also worked on the script for the Superman musical. Apparently, the Salkinds weren't aware of their involvement with the musical until after the fact.
I believe Ed Asner was another consideration for the role as well as Mary Tyler Moore as Lois Lane, but that would have been too closely associated with the show. Plus, Asner got to do his own Lou Grant series after The Mary Tyler Moore Show.
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Post by Metallo on Feb 3, 2017 19:54:44 GMT -5
Ah yeah you're right. Now I do seem to remember that the Newmans worked on Bonnie and Clyde too. That does give them a Hackman connection too.
It's just hard for me to believe the Salkinds didn't know they worked on the Superman musical especially since the televised adaptation aired after they acquired the film rights but before filming began. Leslie Ann Warren, who played Lois in the tv version, even tested for Lois in the movie. You'd think Ilya would have heard that from someone.
That's interesting about MTM. I think she was a bit too old for it by that point though. Asner did at least get his chance years later in one of the animated films.
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 3, 2017 20:59:08 GMT -5
I know what you mean, but looking up someone's full credits wasn't as easy back in those days. Even Mankiewicz remarked how the Salkinds were more like promoters than they were producers, literally going through the list of the top money making films of the time and contacting those people to be involved with the project. Guess that's why they asked Newman and Benton to handle the initial rewrite, as well as having Warren manage to test by having enough clout to come in. Even Gerald Christopher attempted to sneak his Superboy days past the Lois and Clark producers, but they eventually caught on. Still baffled to why Donner didn't tell Warren to "tone it down" during the test. Donner apparently commented that most of the testing actresses were good enough to be "Mrs. Richard Donner," but none of them good enough to be Lois Lane.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 4, 2017 13:55:32 GMT -5
I know what you mean, but looking up someone's full credits wasn't as easy back in those days. Even Mankiewicz remarked how the Salkinds were more like promoters than they were producers, literally going through the list of the top money making films of the time and contacting those people to be involved with the project. Guess that's why they asked Newman and Benton to handle the initial rewrite, as well as having Warren manage to test by having enough clout to come in. Even Gerald Christopher attempted to sneak his Superboy days past the Lois and Clark producers, but they eventually caught on. Still baffled to why Donner didn't tell Warren to "tone it down" during the test. Donner apparently commented that most of the testing actresses were good enough to be "Mrs. Richard Donner," but none of them good enough to be Lois Lane. Ironically, I saw an episode of "Desperate Housewifes" where Warren played the mother of tv Lois Teri Hatcher--- and gave a very similar 'over the top' performance. Some actors have 'autodrive' modes, perhaps this was hers for broad comedy. Still- I'd read in the making of Supes book that Warren was REALLY close to getting the role. The gal from 'Grease' as well.
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Post by Metallo on Feb 4, 2017 14:29:58 GMT -5
Desperate Housewives must have been the destination for Lois Lanes. Wasn't Dana Delaney on there too? You've got a point though. Warren has done plenty of drama but I usually remember her for her comedy work. I though that she was great in stuff like Clue and Life Stinks.
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 4, 2017 16:56:38 GMT -5
So glad that Kidder came in and had the right mixture, because Warren was way too broad and obviously infatuated with Superman, while Channing was too headstrong around Clark. Wish we could have seen their complete screen tests for both scenes. I think Warren firing a gun at Clark would have really made her look like a cuckoo.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 4, 2017 23:52:41 GMT -5
So glad that Kidder came in and had the right mixture, because Warren was way too broad and obviously infatuated with Superman, while Channing was too headstrong around Clark. Wish we could have seen their complete screen tests for both scenes. I think Warren firing a gun at Clark would have really made her look like a cuckoo. Agreed. While we got a lot of great material for the box set of Superman--- There were snippets of things that I would have loved to have seen the complete version of (i.e. John Williams' whole interview for Superman, the screen tests, etc.). I agree that Warren was too 'big' in the scene, and Channing made me fear for Clark's life. Kidder had some of the goofiness Warren provided, but also the edge that Channing had, so of course she was the right pick. I can't help but wonder... were the tests shown really THE closest contenders? With half of Hollywood auditioning, would have thought there would have been stronger 'close' competing screen tests for Lois ....
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Post by atp on Feb 5, 2017 5:34:06 GMT -5
I remember hearing that Keenan Wynn (Digger Barnes from Dallas) was originally going to play Perry White, and that Jackie Cooper was a last-minute replacement.
By the way, was Mankiewicz partly to blame for ruining the Donner cut of S2?
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Post by atp on Feb 5, 2017 5:35:54 GMT -5
Christopher Plummer would have been very good as Zod. Not the stupid Lester version of Zod, but the version in STM.
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Post by Metallo on Feb 5, 2017 8:59:50 GMT -5
So glad that Kidder came in and had the right mixture, because Warren was way too broad and obviously infatuated with Superman, while Channing was too headstrong around Clark. Wish we could have seen their complete screen tests for both scenes. I think Warren firing a gun at Clark would have really made her look like a cuckoo. Stockard Channing, for whatever reason, came in with the Rizzo from Grease attitude and mannerisms. She just came off like a c.unt which is a line that's there with the character that you have to be careful not to cross. Lois is tough and independent but shouldn't be unlikable. Sometimes Coates came across as too tough. Adams and Neill were too nice. Hatcher could at times be too whiny and selfish. Kidders Lois had the right balance. She had the characters natural dash of cynicism while also being endearing. That also mixed well in with Reeve's own newness. The perfect and naive Superman is attracted to Lois's worldliness and flaws. I think Kidder worked because she played a version of herself. I think Mank even said something to that effect that as soon as she walked in she was Lois.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 5, 2017 20:27:06 GMT -5
I remember hearing that Keenan Wynn (Digger Barnes from Dallas) was originally going to play Perry White, and that Jackie Cooper was a last-minute replacement. By the way, was Mankiewicz partly to blame for ruining the Donner cut of S2? Whoever said to cut the arctic scenes and truncate the Lester scenes to a point of clunkiness didn't do it any favors- whether it was Donner or Mank, it didn't help....
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 5, 2017 20:29:46 GMT -5
Christopher Plummer would have been very good as Zod. Not the stupid Lester version of Zod, but the version in STM. Plummer was awesome as General Chang in Trek 6.... I imagine we might have gotten something similar if he was Zod. Still- Nobody can do Zod as much justice as Stamp imo. Terence Stamp, to me, is/was the epitome of 'cool' with how he played the role, even with Lester's sabotage of Donner's SII film. His behind the scenes interviews confirm it even more of how cool he is, with his real-life history.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 5, 2017 20:33:26 GMT -5
So glad that Kidder came in and had the right mixture, because Warren was way too broad and obviously infatuated with Superman, while Channing was too headstrong around Clark. Wish we could have seen their complete screen tests for both scenes. I think Warren firing a gun at Clark would have really made her look like a cuckoo. Stockard Channing, for whatever reason, came in with the Rizzo from Grease attitude and mannerisms. She just came off like a c.unt which is a line that's there with the character that you have to be careful not to cross. Lois is tough and independent but shouldn't be unlikable. Sometimes Coates came across as too tough. Adams and Neill were too nice. Hatcher could at times be too whiny and selfish. Kidders Lois had the right balance. She had the characters natural dash cynicism while also being endearing. That also mixed well in with Reeve own newness. The perfect and naive Superman is attracted to Lois's worldliness and flaws. I think Kidder worked because she played a version of herself. I think Mank even said something to that effect that as soon as she walked in she was Lois. Good points. Hatcher and Erica Durance I think were great successors to Lois myself, preferred Durance by far to Adams, who is just thoroughly miscast imo (I even prefer Bosworth to Adams). Channing felt like Rizzo right off the bat in the screen test. Oddly, loved her when she was older in "West Wing".
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