Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 14, 2018 12:26:29 GMT -5
Dammmit. Guess it’s a part of getting older to see the people you grew up watching die but this year has already been a real b!tch. She’ll always be the best Lois Lane to me.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 14, 2018 12:29:36 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 14, 2018 12:35:14 GMT -5
Just watched Superman I and II and hate to say I was thinking of the mortality of some of the cast since these people are getting older. Even the youngest cast members like East and McClure. Hopefully it wasn’t Kidders past that caught up with her because 69 is still a bit young to go. Phyllis Coates is even still alive and she’s twenty years older than Margot was.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 14, 2018 14:26:39 GMT -5
Just watched Superman I and II and hate to say I was thinking of the mortality of some of the cast since these people are getting older. Even the youngest cast members like East and McClure. Hopefully it wasn’t Kidders last that caught up with her because 69 is still a bit young to go. Phyllis Coates is even still alive and she’s twenty years older than Margot was. It looked like Kidder's smoking (which we'd see in bits and pieces in the behind the scenes footage when the cameras weren't rolling) aged her quite a bit between STM and SII. I wouldn't be surprised if the smoking all caught up to her. Felt bad for her (and was shocked) when she lost all her money with one car accident, and the sad bit of her homeless for awhile and diagnosed with bipolar disorder. With Fisher, she had the benefit of support from her Hollywood family it seemed. Kidder seemed to have a pretty rough ride, but I was lucky to see her (and buy a great autographed still from her from SII on the balcony scene) years ago at a convention - but couldn't really think of a good natural way to chat other than buying the photo and thanking her for her performance in the movie. So I can't say that I chatted with her all that much. I've mainly 'known' her through her outspoken interviews and actions. She mentioned enjoying a lot of time with her grandkids. I hope she had a peaceful last act of her life, post-Hollywood. She seemed like a good person from afar.
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Post by booshman on May 14, 2018 19:42:58 GMT -5
This is sad news to wake up to. She came over as a really genuine and lovely woman that I would have love to have met.
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crown
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Post by crown on May 14, 2018 19:47:18 GMT -5
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Post by booshman on May 14, 2018 22:23:20 GMT -5
She was really beautiful in STM. I have heard people in my personal life ask over the years why she was picked for Lois and say that they couldn't see why Superman fell for her, which I've never understood.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 14, 2018 22:29:39 GMT -5
Yeah. Beyond the obvious talent Kidder came across as confident vunerable and flawed all at the same time without being a b!tch or overly cocky. It’s a real fine line to walk but she did. None of the other women who tested for STM pulled off all that at once but she did. Lois’s human failings coupled with her good qualities are what make her fascinating to Superman. It’s a very foreign concept to someone like him so he’s curious.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 15, 2018 12:42:27 GMT -5
Yeah. Beyond the obvious talent Kidder came across as confident vunerable and flawed all at the same time without being a b!tch or overly cocky. It’s a real fine line to walk but she did. None of the other women who tested for STM pulled off all that at once but she did. Lois’s human failings coupled with her good qualities are what make her fascinating to Superman. It’s a very foreign concept to someone like him so he’s curious. Well put. What's interesting about Donner/Reeve's Superman is that he seems very innocent at heart... and the action isn't the core of STM, but the love story- which was Donner/Mank's 'hidden' strategy from the start. Didn't the 'Making of' book say that Leslie Ann Warren was the runner-up (or Donner's initial choice?)?--- If judging by the audition tapes, Kidder does seem more authentic and a little more of a tomboy than Warren. So, I do agree and think that they made the best choice for STM. Out of the actresses that seemed to embrace Kidder's version of Lois after STM, I'd have to say Erica Durance and Teri Hatcher come the closest. (With all due respect to Noel Neill).
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 17, 2018 14:34:21 GMT -5
I think Superman is a little innocent and naive while Lois is a little jaded and suspicious. That was shown perfectly during the interview scene where she says he’s going to be fighting every elected official in the country and he says he never lies. She likes his purity and he likes her humanity. The movie works because they flesh out all these character and personality traits so well. It makes them compelling. Marvels carried on using that formula so well.
It’s been nice to see the outpouring of sympathy and respect Kidders gotten. I wondered if she’d get what Fisher got and while it might not be as much it’s pretty darn close. You really don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone and I think when people like her pass we see how people feel about them or what they mean to them even though they don’t express it in everyday life. We really are seeing how much people appreciate all the work of those involved in the Superman films.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2018 15:49:15 GMT -5
I think Superman is a little innocent and naive while Lois is a little jaded and suspicious. That was shown perfectly during the interview scene where she says he’s going to be fighting every elected official in the country and he says he never lies. She likes his purity and he likes her humanity. The movie works because they flesh out all these character and personality traits so well. It makes them compelling. Marvels carried on using that formula so well. It’s been nice to see the outpouring of sympathy and respect Kidders gotten. I wondered if she’d get what Fisher got and while it might not be as much it’s pretty darn close. You really don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone and I think when people like her pass we see how people feel about them or what they mean to them even though they don’t express it in everyday life. We really are seeing how much people appreciate all the work of those involved in the Superman films. I agree. I thought it was going to be limited to (What looks like) the somewhat tiny (compared to Star Wars perhaps) STM fanbase- but yeah, I'm glad to see how large the expressions are for and her work on the net. (It's good to see SOME goodwill on the net!). But- I do think of the couple of appearances she had at conventions I was at. There was never a big line, she was pleasant, but (understandably) one time with a. friend who wanted to go up and talk with her, she was asleep at her booth. As I get older (and with older relatives) it's understandable. I just hope, again, that she had a peaceful last act of her life. It's a pity that there can't be a big outpouring of warmth for artists whose work we enjoy while they're still alive. You're right- sometimes we don't appreciate folks until they're no longer with us.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 17, 2018 20:24:55 GMT -5
Yeah it’s shame some don’t get that appreciation while they are alive. Kidder had it hard for a long time. Hopefully she didn’t suffer before she died and financially she was alright. She seemed like a good person.
I remember when Leonard Nimoy died and even though I didn’t know the man it was hard to see his health struggles in his last few years. I’ll tell ya one thing about people you know or grew up with dying makes you start to see your own mortality more clearly. Live for every day.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 17, 2018 21:35:22 GMT -5
Yeah it’s shame some don’t get that appreciation while they are alive. Kidder had it hard for a long time. Hopefully she didn’t suffer before she died and financially she was alright. She seemed like a good person. I remember when Leonard Nimoy died and even though I didn’t know the man it was hard to see his health struggles in his last few years. I’ll tell ya one thing about people you know or grew up with dying makes you start to see your own mortality more clearly. Live for every day. Nimoy at least had to have had strong finances. Health sucks, but if you have weak finances, it just quadruples the troubles. (Speaking from experience)
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 17, 2018 22:25:11 GMT -5
I’m sure he had the best care but in the end I imagine it was still a b!tch for him. He looked rough that last year or so with the COPD.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 19, 2018 0:55:05 GMT -5
I’m sure he had the best care but in the end I imagine it was still a b!tch for him. He looked rough that last year or so with the COPD. The older I get and the more deaths that I know about (not the celebrity ones) through acquaintances or relatives - it sadly seems rare for a 'peaceful' ending.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 19, 2018 9:07:50 GMT -5
It’s never good but one can at least take comfort if the persons who has passed has lived a long life.
I was busted up when Adam West died because I can’t think of a time in my life when I wasn’t a fan but he lived to be almost 90. It was a good run. I’d be happy to have that. I think the suddenness of his death is what hit people so hard.
When someone suffers or dies relatively young that’s harder for me to accept. Anton Yelchins death...just felt wrong on every level. He was young and still had a lot to do. He didn’t get to have that good long run. And his death was just so senseless and preventable. It wasn’t nature taking its course like with a disease or old age it was a freak accident. Same with Brandon Lee. It wasn’t their fault.
Even with someone like Heath Ledger who also died tragically young it was his own choices that may have gotten him there. It’s still sad but I can make sense of it. When someone dies like Yelchin or Lee did you can’t really come up with a reason why beyond someone negligence and that wasn’t those guys fault. The “hows” and “whys” of it can make a big difference.
I think Kidder lived a full if sometimes truly hard life but she got a better run than some. Still...in this day in age with today’s life expectancy 69 isn’t that old. Compared to West of Roger Moore she still had a long time to contribute and be with her family. Once again the suddenness of it hit hard. When you know someone’s sick you can kind of prepare for it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 19, 2018 13:45:13 GMT -5
It’s never good but one can at least take comfort if the persons who has passed has lived a long life. I was busted up when Adam West died because I can’t think of a time in my life when I wasn’t a fan but he lived to be almost 90. It was a good run. I’d be happy to have that. I think the suddenness of his death is what hit people so hard. When someone suffers or dies relatively young that’s harder for me to accept. Anton Yelchins death...just felt wrong on every level. He was young and still had a lot to do. He didn’t get to have that good long run. And his death was just so senseless and preventable. It wasn’t nature taking its course like with a disease or old age it was a freak accident. Same with Brandon Lee. It wasn’t their fault. Even with someone like Heath Ledger who also died tragically young it was his own choices that may have gotten him there. It’s still sad but I can make sense of it. When someone dies like Yelchin or Lee did you can’t really come up with a reason why beyond someone negligence and that wasn’t those guys fault. The “hows” and “whys” of it can make a big difference. I think Kidder lived a full if sometimes truly hard life but she got a better run than some. Still...in this day in age with today’s life expectancy 69 isn’t that old. Compared to West of Roger Moore she still had a long time to contribute and be with her family. Once again the suddenness of it hit hard. When you know someone’s sick you can kind of prepare for it. For me, when a star dies successful- if they had a good run and are at a good place in their lives, it's far less tragic than those that take their own (or wish to) because they're in a hole of sorts. For example, hopefully Kidder was in a good place when she died and I'd like to think so/ hope so. If she had died homeless on the street, during her low times, would have felt far worse for her.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 19, 2018 13:59:34 GMT -5
Yeah. It could have turned out better but it also could have turned out a lot worse. But that applies to anyone’s life. I think the best thing is she will at least be remembered fondly as an actress but as a figure who inspired people by being honest about her health issues and dealing with them. A lot of people can relate to what she went through and she showed you can improve your life.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 19, 2018 14:01:42 GMT -5
Yeah. It could have turned out better but it also could have turned out a lot worse. But that applies to anyone’s life. I think the best thing is she will at least be remembered fondly as an actress but as a figure who inspired people by being honest about her health issues and dealing with them. A lot of people can relate to what she went through and she showed you can improve your life. Right. Like many celeb deaths, though- I guess if there's a good thing that comes out of it, then it does make you look at your own life to reflect current choices.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 19, 2018 14:31:44 GMT -5
I think that’s what she probably hoped for. They can make going through things like that worth it on some level.
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Post by Metallo on Aug 9, 2018 11:44:29 GMT -5
www.darkhorizons.com/margot-kidders-passing-ruled-a-suicide/Dammn. Even knowing it was a possibility it’s still a gut punch. So sad. Much like Robin Williams death hearing this really gets to me. It got to me even before it was this was confirmed but the thought that someone’s that desperate and in pain makes it even worse.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 10, 2018 10:46:03 GMT -5
www.darkhorizons.com/margot-kidders-passing-ruled-a-suicide/Dammn. Even knowing it was a possibility it’s still a gut punch. So sad. Much like Robin Williams death hearing this really gets to me. It got to me even before it was this was confirmed but the thought that someone’s that desperate and in pain makes it even worse. Agreed. The impression I had was that Margot had settled into senior years and was part of her community and spending time with family and had developed a sense of contentment.... with Fisher, there was a great documentary about Carrie Fisher & her mom (Fisher who also suffered from bi-polar disorder)- that suggested maybe her up/down relationship with her mom probably kept her going now.... but this undoes that thought. With Williams, I was blown away- because my mind kind of raced to Michael Douglass' younger brother who killed himself but was a failed actor/comedian. Douglass' brother (who mentioned wanting his older brother to cast him in one of his films, but got a rejection)- died a failure in his brother's shadow at a one-room apartment, while Williams died a relative success, was ok money-wise, and a legend-but the diagnosis or his health overcoming him--- to this day (and I think others have said this)- I wonder if Reeve had still been alive, if he could have talked William off that path with Reeve's own struggles. Anyhow... extra sad that Kidder was in such a state before the end.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 10, 2018 17:59:52 GMT -5
Williams killed himself primarily because of his health problems. That probably magnified his depression. Much like Tony Scott or Don Cornelius he couldn’t deal with the grim diagnosis and/or physical pain. I know he did battle depression his whole life though. Seems like a lot of talented people with depression are drawn to comedy. Maybe as a form of gaining acceptance and positive reinforcement. Jim Carrey has his own mental health problems and we’ve seen a lot of these people struggle publically.
I’ve got to wonder how much drug use played in these people’s depression and chemical imbalances. I’m sure they used to feel better but after years of using it may have made their underlying problems even worse. Williams, Kidder, and Fisher were among many who used hard drugs when they were younger. I’d imagine if you use a lot your chemical balances are going to be different.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 11, 2018 13:48:38 GMT -5
Williams killed himself primarily because of his health problems. That probably magnified his depression. Much like Tony Scott or Don Cornelius he couldn’t deal with the grim diagnosis and/or physical pain. I know he did battle depression his whole life though. Seems like a lot of talented people with depression are drawn to comedy. Maybe as a form of gaining acceptance and positive reinforcement. Jim Carrey has his own mental health problems and we’ve seen a lot of these people struggle publically. I’ve got to wonder how much drug use played in these people’s depression and chemical imbalances. I’m sure they used to feel better but after years of using it may have made their underlying problems even worse. Williams, Kidder, and Fisher were among many who used hard drugs when they were younger. I’d imagine if you use a lot your chemical balances are going to be different. When the celebs are open about their health issues and get treatment or help (whatever type of help it is)- it's great when they feel enough courage to share their struggles publicly. Some comedians do great material from struggling with their personal demons- Carrey even when he was 'big' was pretty serious and open on talk shows when talking about personal stuff when asked. His 'Netflix special' on his journal In prepping to play Andy Kaufman was interesting- his sharing about his father failing at something he hated doing for years to save his family financially & it affecting Carrey at a young age was pretty revealing. He may have mental health issues, but his openness to talking about it seems like a sign of health rather than trying to conceal or bury everything... As far as drugs on top of people who have chemical imbalalances- you have a great point- who knows how much extra damage that could cause/ causes?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 12, 2018 10:06:32 GMT -5
I think there’s a correlation with some comedians. So many of them just seem to have various issues that get out of control and they use other things to deal with it. They’ work so hard to get people to like what they do but when they aren’t doing that they get in some pretty dark places mentally.
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