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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 31, 2022 11:03:11 GMT -5
Of coursee I had to buy it.
But darn it’s such a gigantic disappointment. It’s a fun enough read but the art style feels like tracings of the most famous press photos.
I get more visual chills and excitement re-reading the Mort Drucker Superman movie parodies. This really needed a passionate artist. Annoying that it’s getting such praise because no offense ti the oerson but there’s a dozen or so pro artists who adore STM and woykd have been a better fit.
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Post by Kamdan on Jul 31, 2022 15:33:17 GMT -5
The obvious trace job has plagued this project since the first art was released and it was obviously the image of Superman flying into the camera that was on the cover of the original VHS of Superman: The Movie. It was a major distraction for me to be able to spot what photos and screencaps were used for the comic. Even Jim Bowers was pointing out all of the specific Caped Wonder shots that were used, which I suppose is just bragging rights on his part because he only owns the collection of photos and not the rights. In a perfect world, it would have been fun to have seen Gary Frank do this project, but this was seen as a B-list project and not an A-list assignment.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 31, 2022 15:59:05 GMT -5
I have nothing but praise for Jim Bowers and the joy his website and his podcasts have given- but, I guess me and him differ on feelings on the book.
I totally hear you on this possibly being a 'b' assignment for many comic artists...
For many licensed projects- More often than not, the art rarely is great....
A few exceptions: * George Perez's awesome "Logan's Run" adaptation that sadly never got a hardback or trade- * Burton's Batman by Jerry Ordway * Gray Morrow's Supergirl adaptation
The other Batman Burtonverse movie books actually had decent artists attached to it, but did look more like an assignment, particularly how it was laid out.
Superman Returns had good artists, but the stories weren't really all that interesting, despite me really loving parts of the movie it led into.
I was more excited (and apparently so was the artist) when Superman II was going to be drawn by John Byrne (who wasn't in need of any assignments, so it would have been a passion project) for the tie-in.
I totally agree that Gary Frank would have been perfect for this.... but I would have been fine a few other artists that I think would have been a stronger choice for such a rare project.
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Post by Kamdan on Jul 31, 2022 18:27:25 GMT -5
I’d love to know more about the licensing rights between the Superman and Batman films. For the Batman ‘89 comic, there were restrictions on how close Quinones could depict the actors resemblances from the film. That developed into a criticisms since it appeared to look more like the Animated Series instead of the Burton films. That restriction appears to not be in the Superman comics since they could randomly throw in cameos for Richard Pryor and even The Goonies.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 31, 2022 20:37:20 GMT -5
I’d love to know more about the licensing rights between the Superman and Batman films. For the Batman ‘89 comic, there were restrictions on how close Quinones could depict the actors resemblances from the film. That developed into a criticisms since it appeared to look more like the Animated Series instead of the Burton films. That restriction appears to not be in the Superman comics since they could randomly throw in cameos for Richard Pryor and even The Goonies. Good point. To me, it's a bit bizzare... If you can't draw the characters to look like the actors who played them- what's the point? On the flip side- if it were- for example, say, the screenwriters who wrote the films continuing more/less what was going to happen in the respective Superman/Batman films, then the lack of resemblance could be forgiven to a degree. I remember seeking out Sam Hamm's Batman years ago just out of curiosity since he wrote the first draft of Burton's Batman. (The result was only ok, but still) If there were a licensed comic book adaptation of what Bryan Singer's X3 was going to be liked based on the actual material that existed or the screenwriters, or definitely Singer's Man of Steel- then I'd be fine if it didn't resemble the actors... But--- as is.... I would have been more than happy getting Gary Frank to do the art. Or Dan Jurgens. Or John Byrne/Terry Austin.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 1, 2022 15:37:31 GMT -5
I’d love to know more about the licensing rights between the Superman and Batman films. For the Batman ‘89 comic, there were restrictions on how close Quinones could depict the actors resemblances from the film. That developed into a criticisms since it appeared to look more like the Animated Series instead of the Burton films. That restriction appears to not be in the Superman comics since they could randomly throw in cameos for Richard Pryor and even The Goonies. It was clear they didn’t have all the likeness rights to all the actors for Batman 89. Some they did some they didn’t. In some cases they probably couldn’t get them but in others it may have been down to budget and how much they were willing to spend on rights as well as prioritizing whose likeness was more important to get. Dc has had that problem since the Batman 66 comics. As for a cameo from someone like Richard Pryor that doesn’t mean anything if it’s a one time deal. Comics have done that all the time. Think about how many famous people you’ve seen “cameo” in comics. It may be something similar to using likeness and material under the satire rule. Once you regularly start using someone’s likeness then you have to pay up. George Reeves likeness is clearly used in the Batman 66 comic but it was just for one panel. Doing a whole comic with his likeness would be something else entirely.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 1, 2022 15:39:48 GMT -5
I’d love to know more about the licensing rights between the Superman and Batman films. For the Batman ‘89 comic, there were restrictions on how close Quinones could depict the actors resemblances from the film. That developed into a criticisms since it appeared to look more like the Animated Series instead of the Burton films. That restriction appears to not be in the Superman comics since they could randomly throw in cameos for Richard Pryor and even The Goonies. Good point. To me, it's a bit bizzare... If you can't draw the characters to look like the actors who played them- what's the point? On the flip side- if it were- for example, say, the screenwriters who wrote the films continuing more/less what was going to happen in the respective Superman/Batman films, then the lack of resemblance could be forgiven to a degree. I remember seeking out Sam Hamm's Batman years ago just out of curiosity since he wrote the first draft of Burton's Batman. (The result was only ok, but still) If there were a licensed comic book adaptation of what Bryan Singer's X3 was going to be liked based on the actual material that existed or the screenwriters, or definitely Singer's Man of Steel- then I'd be fine if it didn't resemble the actors... But--- as is.... I would have been more than happy getting Gary Frank to do the art. Or Dan Jurgens. Or John Byrne/Terry Austin. They were probably prioritizing which likenesses were more important. Some of these peoples faces don’t come cheap no matter what. Look at Nicholson. In other cases the estate may simply not want to play ball and want more than what WB and DC are willing to pay. It sucks but none of us should be shocked at this point. Edit - I’m also guessing the cost for the likeness rights for the top billed cast of Batman were probably higher than those of the Superman cast. Many of them were bigger stars than their Superman counterparts so they or their representation could probably demand more.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 1, 2022 15:42:02 GMT -5
Of coursee I had to buy it. But darn it’s such a gigantic disappointment. It’s a fun enough read but the art style feels like tracings of the most famous press photos. I get more visual chills and excitement re-reading the Mort Drucker Superman movie parodies. This really needed a passionate artist. Annoying that it’s getting such praise because no offense ti the oerson but there’s a dozen or so pro artists who adore STM and woykd have been a better fit. I thought it was fine for what it was. But then I didn’t have expectations for anything great anyway. As for the “tracing” a lot of comics based on live action properties do it. Go back and look and some and you’ll be quite shocked how much photo reference becomes total pencilled recreation of an image.
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Post by Kamdan on Aug 2, 2022 14:21:41 GMT -5
Those types of panels seem to have been reserved for a splash page or very sparingly. One of the fun things about reading the comic adaptations is that they mostly explored the same scenes but from a different angle. The Superman ‘78 book felt like it would have been easy to create the material with photos and screencaps in PhotoShop and there would save time and trouble to trace over it. It’s really no different than when fan editors create scenes from the other Superman films for a Superman II fan edit.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 2, 2022 16:07:59 GMT -5
Those types of panels seem to have been reserved for a splash page or very sparingly. One of the fun things about reading the comic adaptations is that they mostly explored the same scenes but from a different angle. The Superman ‘78 book felt like it would have been easy to create the material with photos and screencaps in PhotoShop and there would save time and trouble to trace over it. It’s really no different than when fan editors create scenes from the other Superman films for a Superman II fan edit. It depends on the book and how many adaptations from screen to page you’ve actually read. Some do it that way some don’t. It’s often a lot more than just “sparingly” in many cases.
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