atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2022 3:45:31 GMT -5
, but then we must remember… Superman is still around. Everything he stands for still exists, and the examples he sets for us are still there! My turn to wear the cape has passed, but what Superman stands for never will. It’s been a fun ride with you all, onwards and upwards.” [/i][/quote] I love how he's talking as though he were Christopher Reeve 🙄 His version of Superman didn't "stand for" anything and didn't "set examples for us" either. The whole 10-year period has been crap, and never should have happened. A reboot is long overdue, although I don't expect it to be great either. Hopefully Brandon Routh is cast. That would at least be a good start.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 15, 2022 4:06:24 GMT -5
Looks like James Gunn was the hero we were waiting for. The era of Snyderman is ended. Our long national nightmare is finally over. I’m guessing the abject failure of Black Adam was the nail in the coffin. It was hyped up to be Cavill’s triumphant return only for most people not to give a sh!t. It didn’t get enough butts in seats. Maybe now we can get a great big screen Superman again. This truly was the best Christmas present I could get this year. Thoughts? I'm cautiously optimistic... I agree that I'd be mostly thrilled if Brandon Routh was cast- he's actually even more right for the part at this age and still looks great- but then again, it depends on how much WB/DC has their act together when they launch their 'new' phase of the WB/DC movies. I have a mixed reaction to Gunn's movies and writing... not sure if he is the right guy for the Kevin Feige role at DC. Will see....
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2022 4:11:16 GMT -5
Superman movies need to be their own thing. Not part of some generic WB/DC crap.
STM didn't have any "DC" nonsense.
Superman mustn't be part of the "superhero" movie genre.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2022 4:15:04 GMT -5
Looks like James Gunn was the hero we were waiting for. The era of Snyderman is ended. Our long national nightmare is finally over. I’m guessing the abject failure of Black Adam was the nail in the coffin. It was hyped up to be Cavill’s triumphant return only for most people not to give a sh!t. It didn’t get enough butts in seats. Maybe now we can get a great big screen Superman again. This truly was the best Christmas present I could get this year. Thoughts? The bullies in their precious Facebook group (aka the Cavill Only People) will probably all be in tears today. I hope this lets them see they were wrong to bully us for criticising MoS and that they can now get the therapy they need.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 15, 2022 4:18:43 GMT -5
, but then we must remember… Superman is still around. Everything he stands for still exists, and the examples he sets for us are still there! My turn to wear the cape has passed, but what Superman stands for never will. It’s been a fun ride with you all, onwards and upwards.” [/i][/quote] I love how he's talking as though he were Christopher Reeve 🙄 His version of Superman didn't "stand for" anything and didn't "set examples for us" either. The whole 10-year period has been crap, and never should have happened. A reboot is long overdue, although I don't expect it to be great either. Hopefully Brandon Routh is cast. That would at least be a good start. [/quote] Agreed.... hopefully the final film blows my mind, but have to wait and see...
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2022 4:34:43 GMT -5
The only way a new Superman movie will blow people away is if it:
- reboots totally (although I am in favour of casting Routh)
- divorces itself totally from any DC shared universe crap
- has a writer and director who have NOT worked on superhero movies before
- is primarily a fantasy and drama movie and not a superhero genre movie
- uses the John Williams music unashamedly
- uses practical effects, especially for flying
(Ironically, if this movie is to stand out, the one thing we *don't* need is a CGI villains rule the world scene. It is now way too boring and routine. Mr Thau, try not to do it please.)
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2022 9:55:13 GMT -5
I love how he's talking as though he were Christopher Reeve 🙄 His version of Superman didn't "stand for" anything and didn't "set examples for us" either. The whole 10-year period has been crap, and never should have happened. A reboot is long overdue, although I don't expect it to be great either. Hopefully Brandon Routh is cast. That would at least be a good start. Agreed. While I think it’s a classy statement by Cavill it does feel a bit hollow. Reeve was happy to move on and let someone else have their turn. Cavill says the words but you can feel a bit of bitterness and resentment in them as well. He doesn’t own the role. No one does. All his predecessors got the same news when their run was over wether it was Dean Cain being told they were going to get a fifth season of L&C only for ABC to renege or letting Brandon Routh think for years SR2 was a possibility. Cavills Superman never worked. He looked the part but he never owned it. That went beyond writing and directing. His own performance never made me believe in him. Most people never truly believed in him or embraced him. He was never “the guy” the way Reeve was. It was always flawed and damaged. He got a better run with the role than most so it’s hard for me to have any sympathy for him. Why should he get yet another shot, a fifth one by my count, when the others didn’t work? He’s played the character on film as many times as Reeve did. He hardly got it taken away from him too soon. This is an optimistic time for me. I’m happy to finally see this b@stardized version of Superman truly dead so now we can move on. I’ve got hope it’ll be something better. It can’t be worse than what Snyder did.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2022 10:00:15 GMT -5
Looks like James Gunn was the hero we were waiting for. The era of Snyderman is ended. Our long national nightmare is finally over. I’m guessing the abject failure of Black Adam was the nail in the coffin. It was hyped up to be Cavill’s triumphant return only for most people not to give a sh!t. It didn’t get enough butts in seats. Maybe now we can get a great big screen Superman again. This truly was the best Christmas present I could get this year. Thoughts? The bullies in their precious Facebook group (aka the Cavill Only People) will probably all be in tears today. I hope this lets them see they were wrong to bully us for criticising MoS and that they can now get the therapy they need. Yeah. Some of us said it didn’t work. It never worked. Ten years of trying to make it work never worked and only damaged Superman and DC even more. It was all fundamentally flawed. This news feels like vindication and the chance for Superman to finally getting a fair shot at being done right.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2022 10:04:23 GMT -5
Looks like James Gunn was the hero we were waiting for. The era of Snyderman is ended. Our long national nightmare is finally over. I’m guessing the abject failure of Black Adam was the nail in the coffin. It was hyped up to be Cavill’s triumphant return only for most people not to give a sh!t. It didn’t get enough butts in seats. Maybe now we can get a great big screen Superman again. This truly was the best Christmas present I could get this year. Thoughts? I'm cautiously optimistic... I agree that I'd be mostly thrilled if Brandon Routh was cast- he's actually even more right for the part at this age and still looks great- but then again, it depends on how much WB/DC has their act together when they launch their 'new' phase of the WB/DC movies. I have a mixed reaction to Gunn's movies and writing... not sure if he is the right guy for the Kevin Feige role at DC. Will see.... I think Gunn has the potential to give us something great. At least he’s going in with a real plan. The Snyder/Cavill era never worked and I think it had to be totally scrapped for DC to have any kind of chance going forward. The majority of the audience rejected what they were selling. Superman who didn’t feel like Superman or inspire people, awful poorly conceived villains, a Lois/Clark pairing with zero chemistry, and the absolute wasting of some massive DC comics stories that they aren’t going to retry in the same universe. You get one chance to make a good first impression and most of the DCEU’s first have utterly failed to do that.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2022 10:18:12 GMT -5
The only reboot that really impressed me was Casino Royale in 2006. (And even then, the follow up Bond movies turned into crap.)
The first Creed movie was similarly successful, though not a true reboot in my opinion.
A new Superman movie needs the calibre of people who wrote and directed and edited the abovementioned movies.
And no CGI. Please.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2022 11:01:39 GMT -5
The only reboot that really impressed me was Casino Royale in 2006. (And even then, the follow up Bond movies turned into crap.) The first Creed movie was similarly successful, though not a true reboot in my opinion. A new Superman movie needs the calibre of people who wrote and directed and edited the abovementioned movies. And no CGI. Please. Creed was more of an offshoot or a spin-off but it was building on a franchise that had already been strongly revived ten years before with the sixth Rocky film. I’d compare this new approach to a Superman film to the Spider-man franchise which saw massive early success then years of failure only for Richard Donner’s protégé to get his his hands on it and not only fix it but make it more successful than it ever was before. There a reason Spider-Man No Way Home made almost 2 billion dollars while Black Adam was a massive box office bomb that killed Cavillman for good.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 15, 2022 11:41:27 GMT -5
Looks like James Gunn was the hero we were waiting for. The era of Snyderman is ended. Our long national nightmare is finally over. I’m guessing the abject failure of Black Adam was the nail in the coffin. It was hyped up to be Cavill’s triumphant return only for most people not to give a sh!t. It didn’t get enough butts in seats. Maybe now we can get a great big screen Superman again. This truly was the best Christmas present I could get this year. Thoughts? LOL!!!!! regarding the Xmas pressie..........and Yep!!!!! My butt never sat on that seat!!! Saw Cavill's easter egg in Black Adam thanks to someone's mobile phone recording in a theater on YouTube and that was enough for me! No BluRay/UHD purchase of Black Adam either. Vote with your wallet and let their's take the hit. Usually it's the other way round.Lol! I would say that Cavill does seem to be a relatively nice chap......but he has a little bit of that military(here in England we call them squaddies) demeanour about him. If I remember correctly his family had military ties....his brother served in Afghanistan. Somehow some of that seeped through to his portrayal. So when Lois says to Supes in MoS: "Won't you be weaker around it"? (the Kryptonian World Engine tentacle thing) Cavill's response: "Maybe.....but I am not going to let it stop me from trying" The way he said it just rang of the "never give in - yes sir/no sir " military B.S.....which I think was the wrong tone for Supes. Compare that to Reeve's delivery in SII in Don's Dina: " I gotta try something-anything" Yeah I know 2 different situations but the deliveries are all important. One has hubris and the other one has humility. Goodbye hubris
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2022 12:21:54 GMT -5
Looks like James Gunn was the hero we were waiting for. The era of Snyderman is ended. Our long national nightmare is finally over. I’m guessing the abject failure of Black Adam was the nail in the coffin. It was hyped up to be Cavill’s triumphant return only for most people not to give a sh!t. It didn’t get enough butts in seats. Maybe now we can get a great big screen Superman again. This truly was the best Christmas present I could get this year. Thoughts? LOL!!!!! regarding the Xmas pressie..........and Yep!!!!! My butt never sat on that seat!!! Saw Cavill's easter egg in Black Adam thanks to someone's mobile phone recording in a theater on YouTube and that was enough for me! No BluRay/UHD purchase of Black Adam either. Vote with your wallet and let their's take the hit. Usually it's the other way round.Lol! I would say that Cavill does seem to be a relatively nice chap......but he has a little bit of that military(here in England we call them squaddies) demeanour about him. If I remember correctly his family had military ties....his brother served in Afghanistan. Somehow some of that seeped through to his portrayal. So when Lois says to Supes in MoS: "Won't you be weaker around it"? (the Kryptonian World Engine tentacle thing) Cavill's response: "Maybe.....but I am not going to let it stop me from trying" The way he said it just rang of the "never give in - yes sir/no sir " military B.S.....which I think was the wrong tone for Supes. Compare that to Reeve's delivery in SII in Don's Dina: " I gotta try something-anything" Yeah I know 2 different situations but the deliveries are all important. One has hubris and the other one has humility. Goodbye hubris Cavill lacks the ease and charm of Christopher Reeve or even Brandon Routh, Tyler Hoechlin, George Reeves, or Dean Cain. His performance and line delivery are naturally very flat which made his Superman even more bland and less compelling. It's not about being like them he simply lacks the human depth and nuance most good actors have on screen. That's what makes characters come alive. Cavill's performance was more robotic. Combine that with Zack Snyder's awful take and poor filmmaking and it's no wonder his Superman was a dud. You make a great point about presentation, Dejan. I also think the difference between Cavill's Superman and Reeve's can be summed up perfectly in two scenes. One is in Superman III where he shows up at the chemical plant fire and asks "How can I help?" The other is in Man of Steel after he crashes a military drone then says "I'm here to help but it has to be on my own terms." One of those is a question. The other is a statement but also a conditional one. Superman shouldn't be a soldier or forced to tell the world who he really is but him lending a helping hand should be unconditional.
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2022 12:24:37 GMT -5
He'll be just as crap as James Bond, despite rumours that he is being considered
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atp
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Post by atp on Dec 15, 2022 12:27:48 GMT -5
LOL!!!!! regarding the Xmas pressie..........and Yep!!!!! My butt never sat on that seat!!! Saw Cavill's easter egg in Black Adam thanks to someone's mobile phone recording in a theater on YouTube and that was enough for me! No BluRay/UHD purchase of Black Adam either. Vote with your wallet and let their's take the hit. Usually it's the other way round.Lol! I would say that Cavill does seem to be a relatively nice chap......but he has a little bit of that military(here in England we call them squaddies) demeanour about him. If I remember correctly his family had military ties....his brother served in Afghanistan. Somehow some of that seeped through to his portrayal. So when Lois says to Supes in MoS: "Won't you be weaker around it"? (the Kryptonian World Engine tentacle thing) Cavill's response: "Maybe.....but I am not going to let it stop me from trying" The way he said it just rang of the "never give in - yes sir/no sir " military B.S.....which I think was the wrong tone for Supes. Compare that to Reeve's delivery in SII in Don's Dina: " I gotta try something-anything" Yeah I know 2 different situations but the deliveries are all important. One has hubris and the other one has humility. Goodbye hubris Cavill lacks the ease and charm of Christopher Reeve or even Brandon Routh, Tyler Hoechlin, George Reeves, or Dean Cain. His performance and line delivery are naturally very flat which made his Superman even more bland and less compelling. It's not about being like them he simply lacks the human depth and nuance most good actors have on screen. That's what makes characters come alive. Cavill's performance was more robotic. Combine that with Zack Snyder's awful take and poor filmmaking and it's no wonder his Superman was a dud. You make a great point about presentation, Dejan. I also think the difference between Cavill's Superman and Reeve's can be summed up perfectly in two scenes. One is in Superman III where he shows up at the chemical plant fire and asks "How can I help?" The other is in Man of Steel after he crashes a military drone then says "I'm here to help but it has to be on my own terms." One of those is a question. The other is a statement but also a conditional one. Superman shouldn't be a soldier or forced to tell the world who he really is but him lending a helping hand should be unconditional. Superman 3 may have been a letdown, but that chemical plant scene was terrific, and still holds up today
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2022 12:29:59 GMT -5
Reeve knew how to play Superman. Even at their worst the movies knew how to present Superman. The Salkinds also put money in their set pieces even if the writing was crap. He'll be just as crap as James Bond, despite rumours that he is being considered Spot on. I’ve never understood this obsession with Cavill as Bond beyond the superficial. All Cavill has going for him is looks. He’s not the kind of actor Connery, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan, and Craig were. He can scowl but he doesn’t have the wit or charm or charisma of those other men. He’d be dull as dishwater as Bond.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 15, 2022 18:08:32 GMT -5
Metallo Nice spot with the unconditional statement from Supes in MoS. I actually never saw it that way before but you are absolutely right. Supe's predicament of lending a helping hand should never be mitigated. As you said, the combination of Snyder's writing and direction, plus Cavill's stoic deliveries just made Supes too distant for a lot of us. I did like Cavill's "release" statement and hey, he had a fair crack at the whip. If you include Snyder's JL......Cavill's run has lasted the best part of 10 years. If they are rational, even Cavill fans can't argue with that one. However, just looked on YouTube and there are Cavillytes who are not taking it too well. LOL!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 15, 2022 19:29:23 GMT -5
Metallo Nice spot with the unconditional statement from Supes in MoS. I actually never saw it that way before but you are absolutely right. Supe's predicament of lending a helping hand should never be mitigated. As you said, the combination of Snyder's writing and direction, plus Cavill's stoic deliveries just made Supes too distant for a lot of us. I did like Cavill's "release" statement and hey, he had a fair crack at the whip. If you include Snyder's JL......Cavill's run has lasted the best part of 10 years. If they are rational, even Cavill fans can't argue with that one. However, just looked on YouTube and there are Cavillytes who are not taking it too well. LOL! Kinel is your typical agenda driven YouTube grifter. Not to be taken seriously at all. I usually like Angry Joe (he’s funny) but he comes off like a whiny child on this one. Cavill isn’t irreplaceable. Cavill’s appeared as Superman for about 9 and a half years on screen across four films. Exactly like Christopher Reeve’s run. He even got an alternate film just like Reeve. Donner Cut vs Snyder Cut. That’s why it’s hard for me to feel sorry for him and I think it’s stupid when people say Cavill’s run got cut short. He’s had a longer tenure in the role than most.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 18, 2022 18:04:58 GMT -5
Metallo Yes I too generally find AngryJoe's reviews amusing but he is way off base with regards to Cavill's acting integrity in that one. In fact one of my fav YouToober reviewers, The Critical Drinker, has also fallen into the same trap as Angry Joe--hating MoS whilst loving Cavill: It could be that you,me,ATP and CAM are outliers in the sense that we generally dislike Cavill.......aswell as MoS,BvS and JL. Cavill has had a fair crack at that whip. He has been a touch unlucky that the directors and script writers he cooperated with, had a distorted vision for Superman. But hey that's the way the cooky crumbles. So long........"Greenhorn"!.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 18, 2022 18:24:24 GMT -5
The only way a new Superman movie will blow people away is if it: - reboots totally (although I am in favour of casting Routh) - divorces itself totally from any DC shared universe crap - has a writer and director who have NOT worked on superhero movies before - is primarily a fantasy and drama movie and not a superhero genre movie - uses the John Williams music unashamedly - uses practical effects, especially for flying (Ironically, if this movie is to stand out, the one thing we *don't* need is a CGI villains rule the world scene. It is now way too boring and routine. Mr Thau, try not to do it please.) Nice points bud. Personally speaking......I actually liked Zimmer's score for MoS....got it in my collection in fact , but yeah........if Wheadon's JL could use William's Supe's musical ques unashamedly(even though I thought it was wierdely misplaced in that theatrical version)- then why not whatever the latest Supe's incarnation is? And you are correct with your wish not to use CG stuff, but unfortunately that methodology is now entrenched. I am not planning to watch Avatar 2(even though I esteem Cameron's work)-----fact is that movie making with regards to SPFX, has not changed in the best part of 20-25 years.........not really. Sure, Mo Cap is more refined and the CG is always being fine tuned.........but we are in serious need of a new movie making SPFX revolution.....in much the same way as Star Wars and Superman turbocharged the special effects industry at the end of the 70s and Teminator 2 and Jurassic Park did in the early 90s......although IMHO ,neither of those 2 flicks (T2 and the original JP) were great movies.....they still helped pioneer something different. But that something different(CGI).....is now strangulating the film industry(or at least fantasy/scifi stuff). Can a new Supes movie be the one to break through the stagnation and trailblaze a new technique? heck yes! The flying has always been the special part about Supes.......yet Supes Returns and MoS failed to utlilize that aspect at all. They need to figure out an exciting new method to capture flying.....that will help the new Supes movie stand out from the crowd.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 20, 2022 2:07:41 GMT -5
The only way a new Superman movie will blow people away is if it: - reboots totally (although I am in favour of casting Routh) - divorces itself totally from any DC shared universe crap - has a writer and director who have NOT worked on superhero movies before - is primarily a fantasy and drama movie and not a superhero genre movie - uses the John Williams music unashamedly - uses practical effects, especially for flying (Ironically, if this movie is to stand out, the one thing we *don't* need is a CGI villains rule the world scene. It is now way too boring and routine. Mr Thau, try not to do it please.) Nice points bud. Personally speaking......I actually liked Zimmer's score for MoS....got it in my collection in fact , but yeah........if Wheadon's JL could use William's Supe's musical ques unashamedly(even though I thought it was wierdely misplaced in that theatrical version)- then why not whatever the latest Supe's incarnation is? And you are correct with your wish not to use CG stuff, but unfortunately that methodology is now entrenched. I am not planning to watch Avatar 2(even though I esteem Cameron's work)-----fact is that movie making with regards to SPFX, has not changed in the best part of 20-25 years.........not really. Sure, Mo Cap is more refined and the CG is always being fine tuned.........but we are in serious need of a new movie making SPFX revolution.....in much the same way as Star Wars and Superman turbocharged the special effects industry at the end of the 70s and Teminator 2 and Jurassic Park did in the early 90s......although IMHO ,neither of those 2 flicks (T2 and the original JP) were great movies.....they still helped pioneer something different. But that something different(CGI).....is now strangulating the film industry(or at least fantasy/scifi stuff). Can a new Supes movie be the one to break through the stagnation and trailblaze a new technique? heck yes! The flying has always been the special part about Supes.......yet Supes Returns and MoS failed to utlilize that aspect at all. They need to figure out an exciting new method to capture flying.....that will help the new Supes movie stand out from the crowd. To me, more and more the layer of what made STM REALLY special was what was kept hidden from the public for the majority of it, on ALL levels. Part of it might have been Brando's insistence for a long time on no press- But- I'd heard that another part was that the Salkinds may have looked at the box office disappointment of DeLaurentis' King Kong that had tv commercials showing King Kong- Hence.... NO flying shots were in any of the early tv commercials, nor any of the preview clips shared with tv bits. Also- Reeve was a complete unknown- How Krypton was going to be interpreted was a complete unknown (I was hoping it would have been at the time like COruscant ended up being- full of life and mindblowing sfx wise at the time- not an ice planet full of old people, but...I digress) How many aspects of the Superman lore were going to be interpreted- dead serious? Comedic? The flying fx was the 'big mystery' - prior to CGI - but... The effects weren't the big thing for me (I thought it disappointed, after seeing Star Wars first, to tell the truth, and the background too blurry)- But--- The experience as a whole - the cinematography, the music, the art direction, the cast- but primarily - the seeming limitless production value on each scene and the core emphasis of the sweetness of the relationship between Superman and Lois- and the good natured tone of the movie- is what swallowed me up as an audience member. Not so much the flying shots (even if they felt somehow off, they still LOOKED great)- made me feel that the movie was special, but the characters/casting and story- and style of execution is what blew me away. The novelity of it being the first big superhero film (and no others around until many years later) of course boosted it- So there WON"T be a 'novelity' factor to a new superman reboot- But... Much like Tom Holland's Spiderman reboot had a challenge to be different but the same, the new Superman reboot will have a likewise high hill to climb. However, unlike STM which had the horrible dumping of is main creative powerhouse by the second movie--- It looks like the powers that be will be backing a planned out series of movies ahead of time- with a talented writer behind it... but.... Remains to be seen how well it comes off. But, they know what's at stake and how big a challenge it is, too.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 21, 2022 17:59:06 GMT -5
Metallo Yes I too generally find AngryJoe's reviews amusing but he is way off base with regards to Cavill's acting integrity in that one. In fact one of my fav YouToober reviewers, The Critical Drinker, has also fallen into the same trap as Angry Joe--hating MoS whilst loving Cavill: It could be that you,me,ATP and CAM are outliers in the sense that we generally dislike Cavill.......aswell as MoS,BvS and JL. Cavill has had a fair crack at that whip. He has been a touch unlucky that the directors and script writers he cooperated with, had a distorted vision for Superman. But hey that's the way the cooky crumbles. So long........"Greenhorn"!. We weren't the outliers. The people who were all in on the Snyderverse were the outliers. We were part of the larger general audience who were never fully on board with the DCEU because we saw the foundational problems with it. Some things worked but they could never sustain them.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 21, 2022 18:07:11 GMT -5
The only way a new Superman movie will blow people away is if it: - reboots totally (although I am in favour of casting Routh) - divorces itself totally from any DC shared universe crap - has a writer and director who have NOT worked on superhero movies before - is primarily a fantasy and drama movie and not a superhero genre movie - uses the John Williams music unashamedly - uses practical effects, especially for flying (Ironically, if this movie is to stand out, the one thing we *don't* need is a CGI villains rule the world scene. It is now way too boring and routine. Mr Thau, try not to do it please.) Nice points bud. Personally speaking......I actually liked Zimmer's score for MoS....got it in my collection in fact , but yeah........if Wheadon's JL could use William's Supe's musical ques unashamedly(even though I thought it was wierdely misplaced in that theatrical version)- then why not whatever the latest Supe's incarnation is? And you are correct with your wish not to use CG stuff, but unfortunately that methodology is now entrenched. I am not planning to watch Avatar 2(even though I esteem Cameron's work)-----fact is that movie making with regards to SPFX, has not changed in the best part of 20-25 years.........not really. Sure, Mo Cap is more refined and the CG is always being fine tuned.........but we are in serious need of a new movie making SPFX revolution.....in much the same way as Star Wars and Superman turbocharged the special effects industry at the end of the 70s and Teminator 2 and Jurassic Park did in the early 90s......although IMHO ,neither of those 2 flicks (T2 and the original JP) were great movies.....they still helped pioneer something different. But that something different(CGI).....is now strangulating the film industry(or at least fantasy/scifi stuff). Can a new Supes movie be the one to break through the stagnation and trailblaze a new technique? heck yes! The flying has always been the special part about Supes.......yet Supes Returns and MoS failed to utlilize that aspect at all. They need to figure out an exciting new method to capture flying.....that will help the new Supes movie stand out from the crowd. I thought MOS failed more on the flying front than SR. SR never fully took advantage of what they could have done but Snyder had no interest in showing the majesty of it. It was all super close and super wide flying shots. Virtually no mid distance flying in his movies. As for Avatar 2 I'm not really interested in it either. The first one and this one look like all effects and no substance. It looks nice but I miss the old truly inventive James Cameron.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 21, 2022 18:17:17 GMT -5
Nice points bud. Personally speaking......I actually liked Zimmer's score for MoS....got it in my collection in fact , but yeah........if Wheadon's JL could use William's Supe's musical ques unashamedly(even though I thought it was wierdely misplaced in that theatrical version)- then why not whatever the latest Supe's incarnation is? And you are correct with your wish not to use CG stuff, but unfortunately that methodology is now entrenched. I am not planning to watch Avatar 2(even though I esteem Cameron's work)-----fact is that movie making with regards to SPFX, has not changed in the best part of 20-25 years.........not really. Sure, Mo Cap is more refined and the CG is always being fine tuned.........but we are in serious need of a new movie making SPFX revolution.....in much the same way as Star Wars and Superman turbocharged the special effects industry at the end of the 70s and Teminator 2 and Jurassic Park did in the early 90s......although IMHO ,neither of those 2 flicks (T2 and the original JP) were great movies.....they still helped pioneer something different. But that something different(CGI).....is now strangulating the film industry(or at least fantasy/scifi stuff). Can a new Supes movie be the one to break through the stagnation and trailblaze a new technique? heck yes! The flying has always been the special part about Supes.......yet Supes Returns and MoS failed to utlilize that aspect at all. They need to figure out an exciting new method to capture flying.....that will help the new Supes movie stand out from the crowd. To me, more and more the layer of what made STM REALLY special was what was kept hidden from the public for the majority of it, on ALL levels. Part of it might have been Brando's insistence for a long time on no press- But- I'd heard that another part was that the Salkinds may have looked at the box office disappointment of DeLaurentis' King Kong that had tv commercials showing King Kong- Hence.... NO flying shots were in any of the early tv commercials, nor any of the preview clips shared with tv bits. Also- Reeve was a complete unknown- How Krypton was going to be interpreted was a complete unknown (I was hoping it would have been at the time like COruscant ended up being- full of life and mindblowing sfx wise at the time- not an ice planet full of old people, but...I digress) How many aspects of the Superman lore were going to be interpreted- dead serious? Comedic? The flying fx was the 'big mystery' - prior to CGI - but... The effects weren't the big thing for me (I thought it disappointed, after seeing Star Wars first, to tell the truth, and the background too blurry)- But--- The experience as a whole - the cinematography, the music, the art direction, the cast- but primarily - the seeming limitless production value on each scene and the core emphasis of the sweetness of the relationship between Superman and Lois- and the good natured tone of the movie- is what swallowed me up as an audience member. Not so much the flying shots (even if they felt somehow off, they still LOOKED great)- made me feel that the movie was special, but the characters/casting and story- and style of execution is what blew me away. The novelity of it being the first big superhero film (and no others around until many years later) of course boosted it- So there WON"T be a 'novelity' factor to a new superman reboot- But... Much like Tom Holland's Spiderman reboot had a challenge to be different but the same, the new Superman reboot will have a likewise high hill to climb. However, unlike STM which had the horrible dumping of is main creative powerhouse by the second movie--- It looks like the powers that be will be backing a planned out series of movies ahead of time- with a talented writer behind it... but.... Remains to be seen how well it comes off. But, they know what's at stake and how big a challenge it is, too. Considering they sold much of STM to the public on the awe and wonder flying it was the smart play. Build up the anticipation. Of course they had to live up to it too. Godzilla 98 was also sold on mystery and the eventual reveal but that blew up in their faces because the film became a punchline and Godzilla looked awful. Sadly the days of movie magic when it comes to film special effects are gone. It's all mostly done one way and even young children have a general idea of how it's done. Back when we were kids there was that appeal of it almost being like a magic trick. How did they do it? What was the slight of hand. I mean... I still marvel at how they created the red sun of Krypton in STM. The average person would have no clue how they did that. There were so many different methods to make so many different things happen in films. Now you click a mouse. The mystery and artistry are mostly gone. There obviously still a certain talent that comes with being able to create and judge truly great CGI but it's not the same.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 22, 2022 3:51:00 GMT -5
To me, more and more the layer of what made STM REALLY special was what was kept hidden from the public for the majority of it, on ALL levels. Part of it might have been Brando's insistence for a long time on no press- But- I'd heard that another part was that the Salkinds may have looked at the box office disappointment of DeLaurentis' King Kong that had tv commercials showing King Kong- Hence.... NO flying shots were in any of the early tv commercials, nor any of the preview clips shared with tv bits. Also- Reeve was a complete unknown- How Krypton was going to be interpreted was a complete unknown (I was hoping it would have been at the time like COruscant ended up being- full of life and mindblowing sfx wise at the time- not an ice planet full of old people, but...I digress) How many aspects of the Superman lore were going to be interpreted- dead serious? Comedic? The flying fx was the 'big mystery' - prior to CGI - but... The effects weren't the big thing for me (I thought it disappointed, after seeing Star Wars first, to tell the truth, and the background too blurry)- But--- The experience as a whole - the cinematography, the music, the art direction, the cast- but primarily - the seeming limitless production value on each scene and the core emphasis of the sweetness of the relationship between Superman and Lois- and the good natured tone of the movie- is what swallowed me up as an audience member. Not so much the flying shots (even if they felt somehow off, they still LOOKED great)- made me feel that the movie was special, but the characters/casting and story- and style of execution is what blew me away. The novelity of it being the first big superhero film (and no others around until many years later) of course boosted it- So there WON"T be a 'novelity' factor to a new superman reboot- But... Much like Tom Holland's Spiderman reboot had a challenge to be different but the same, the new Superman reboot will have a likewise high hill to climb. However, unlike STM which had the horrible dumping of is main creative powerhouse by the second movie--- It looks like the powers that be will be backing a planned out series of movies ahead of time- with a talented writer behind it... but.... Remains to be seen how well it comes off. But, they know what's at stake and how big a challenge it is, too. Considering they sold much of STM to the public on the awe and wonder flying it was the smart play. Build up the anticipation. Of course they had to live up to it too. Godzilla 98 was also sold on mystery and the eventual reveal but that blew up in their faces because the film became a punchline and Godzilla looked awful. Sadly the days of movie magic when it comes to film special effects are gone. It's all mostly done one way and even young children have a general idea of how it's done. Back when we were kids there was that appeal of it almost being like a magic trick. How did they do it? What was the slight of hand. I mean... I still marvel at how they created the red sun of Krypton in STM. The average person would have no clue how they did that. There were so many different methods to make so many different things happen in films. Now you click a mouse. The mystery and artistry are mostly gone. There obviously still a certain talent that comes with being able to create and judge truly great CGI but it's not the same. Good points... it's like CGI hit a 'peak' with Jurrassic Park- but after that, all real 'magic' and 'awe' of special effects in movies went away after that moment. There was a Jackie Chan documentary decades ago that mentioned the same thing that happened with his practical stunts once CGI was able to be involved- and, I don't think the documentary was wrong. But- just as it was revolutionary to have the first film projected, then become mundane and needed the bar raised- there may or may not be a next level- but - I digress... I agree part of the awe was the anticipation for an effect never before achieved successfully. But- the nice thing was that it wasn't JUST an effect that the audience got. Donner tried to make it like the greatest story ever told, with all those David Lean moments in STM. If Lester had directed it, I think the story would have been told, but in a very mundane tv-like way that kept things on budget- but lose it's feeling of being epic. I might have enjoyed it enough, but not have had the movie feel like something special. (Not end up talking about it decades later)... anyhow, the marketing definitely helped the experience be special.
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