Evidence there was more Donner SII scenes!

[Gandy]

Feb 28, 2009 13:48:14 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

y'know way way waaaaayyy back in 2001 when we ere waiting for the restored STM DHARMESH was wellahead of the curve in calling for donner's superman II footage to be explored in a documentary as opposed to a " cut " .
to do it again, i'd rather have a " green cut "that took SIIRIC and removed th eawful bits - AND- have a new doc that compared/contrested the alternate story material

You guys have a better memory than me. A doc or something similar, even a round-table with the film stars, would have worked better and removed much of the criticism, which the cut endured. I think was a little uneasy about the whole endeavour of doing a cut in the first place; I just wanted the footage released as "deleted scenes" at first, then the round-table idea interested me -- 90 min discussion -- intercut with footage -- with Dick, Tom, Margot and Ilya would have been fun. Maybe something like that is still possible on a future BD release...?

As for more footage, I'm sure there is more. Think of how much footage they shot! Loads of alternates and scrapped ideas.

[Super Sebastian]

What Mr. Thau do for the Donner cut is use the footage to do the movie as the old script was made, so is sure that they don’t use a lot of other things that Donner shoot and they don’t know where to put it in to this version of the movie, the Concorde scene is one of them!
And remember that in the documentary Donner see a Daily Planet scene that it was not going to be on the film and Donner say!! What?? Put that back in! Boy ho boy, were you have drinking this morning? That confirm that is some things that have no place in this version and we don’t see it yet.

The only way t knows it is by photos and the only who can have some images from scenes that we never see is Jim Bowers.

Remember that are photos of other boys in Smallville in the first movie who show the Clark childhood, and we see in a early commercial 2 seconds of Chris as Superman in the fortress that we never see.

I think the best way to see those scenes is to request not a new version of the film every time, is to request a very complete documentary of the 2 movies (maybe call Superman the Donner´s files) were they show us everything that was filmed, why they filmed originally, show the other angles of the film as we see it in the beginning of the Donner cut, more behind the scenes etc.

[adam15]

Heres the problem: the Donner Cut's largest problem BY FAR was not the editing; it was that there wasn't enough Donner footage. They took out more Lester footage than they added Donner footage so the film LOST more than it gained... even if what it gained was qualitatively better, quantitatively the film suffered hence the rough middle of the film.
The film is gold all the way up until Lex's baloon bustout but then it sucks all the way until Supes depowering with Jor-EL because there is NO Donner stuff in that section except a crude screentest with highly truncated Lester scenes... basically garbage.
But IMAGINE how much better the Donner Cut would have been if this middle section had Donner's fortress stuff like Superman getting groceries... making the souflee, and then watching home movies and gettin' in on with Lois! This would have made the middle of the movie sooo much more substantial and then the "love story wouldn't have been a "highlights package"

I actually dont care if there is more Donner "footage" out there... theres obviously different takes/angles, etc....I want to know if there is more Donner ENTIRE SCENES; specifically more stuff in the fortress of solitude with Lois and Kal-El which IMO would have helped Donners cut tremendously.

[HeartMonger]

I for one believe that there *is* in fact several bits of footage that we have never seen. I had expected more from Thau and Donner. I am eternally greatful that we got what we got, but I too, am left wondering...

One thing's for sure: They won't spend all that money and then some, to create a whole new Donner Cut, at least not anytime soon.

I wish there was more WE could do.

[stargazer01]

I found this at Superman Homepage today,

March 2, 2009: WonderCon Interview with Jack O'Halloran

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Jeffrey Taylor.

I sat down (or rather stood with) Jack O'Halloran at WonderCon last weekend. Even though he convincingly portrayed a genocidal maniac in Superman: The Movie and Superman II, he's a really nice guy.

What did you think of the Donner Cut of Superman II?

I think it's just superb. I think it's just really sad that he never really got to do it the way that he wanted to. But even what they did, I thought it was great. Much better.

I like the fact that they took the campiness out. The quality of shot were better. He's a much better director and it shows night and day. The whole structure of the shots were better. The true villains were much more revealed in Donner's cut.

I much preferred the final fight with the villains in the Donner Cut.

Yeah, and I think that Donner just did that. It showed three against one in a proper manner. He's just a better director.

Do you have any thoughts about the next movies that are in the works?

I hope they do better than they did the last time. (In Superman Returns) I think they overdid the CGI. They had a lot of great talent that they didn't properly use. There weren't enough minutes on the screen for Frank Langella. And with Kevin Spacey, if you want to try to outdo Hackman, you at least have to give him something to do. I just thought it was kind of unfair how some of the talent was wasted on that movie.

Are you aware of Non's role in the current comic books?

Yeah, Dick Donner told me (laughs). I haven't seen them. Did they do the thing where he was a scientist on Krypton? I'm supposed to go by the office and pick up copies, but I haven't yet.

Would you like to be on Smallville?

Yeah, you know we talked to them a couple of times and I thought we were going to do something once. We even came up with plotlines to help them out and bring all three of us on there. I never heard from them about it. Mark (McClure)'s been on there. Maggie's (Margot Kidder) been on there. I guess the only two who haven't been on there are Sarah (Douglas) and I. Terrence (Stamp) is doing a voice. So I don't know what's going on there. I've never actually met the Smallville people face to face, but we talked on the phone a few times.

I gave them a plotline for all three of us to be on there. We'd be coming out of jail as criminals, but without powers, searching for Lex Luthor to give us our powers back. I thought it would have been a very cool show and worked very well. We just never heard back from them.

Since I'm friends with you on Facebook, I see that you're involved with a lot of causes. Are there any you'd like me to pass on to the fans?

Abused children is something that needs to be addressed. I'm also involved with Breast Cancer with women, but abused children is the biggest one for me.

[adam15]

Yes! Mr. O'Halloran agrees with me that SR sucks! THANK YOU NON! I give you a flashy red light for a reward!

[Jimbo]

Eh, it's just his modem.

[Jor-L5150]

Mar 1, 2009 22:48:07 GMT -5 @adam15 said:

Awww I think this site should be dedicated to discovering ALL of Donners SII footage! I think THAU (if that WAS his real name) was lying through his teeth when he said he found "everything" Look Thau..... I think you just found a couple of scenes then got LAZY and stopped looking! You just thought.. "awww f*ck it I'll just use the screen test" and "ahh theres plenty of new stuff in here I'm not gonna be bothered to find anymore... fans wont notice!"

Well I'm here to say that I know FOR A FACT that more Donner scenes exist... and I demand Mr. Thau tell the truth about his "restoration" attempts!!!!

thau wasnt lying. they did find all ( and more ) that they were looking for.

-however- thau was ordered by donner and mank to use the timewarp ending , and to cut anything donner didnt like

[adam15]

But Donner finished shooting all the fortress material... why wasn't it in there?

[The Phantom Menace]

What I don't get is why Thau and Donner used inferior takes of Donner footage (mainly Luthor's line readings in the Daily Planet and Fortress at the end) than was used in the theatrical cut. They even removed one of my favorite Luthor lines ("Even with all this accumulated knowledge when will these dummies learn to use a doorknob?")

[Gandy]

Mar 2, 2009 20:56:01 GMT -5 The Phantom Menace said:

What I don't get is why Thau and Donner used inferior takes of Donner footage (mainly Luthor's line readings in the Daily Planet and Fortress at the end) than was used in the theatrical cut. They even removed one of my favorite Luthor lines ("Even with all this accumulated knowledge when will these dummies learn to use a doorknob?")

It's a Lester dubbed line.

[Jimbo]

It's one of the better dubbed lines though, unlike "one small step for mankind." Wasn't Hackman's actual line pretty close to that "doorknob" quip?

One thing that bewildered me. Thau used an obvious voice double for Zod when he says "I trust you are not wasting my time, Lex Luthor", while in the RIC, it's clearly Stamp's voice. It's not his Zod-ly deep voice, but I'd take Stamp's voice over a voice double.

[joey m]

The voice and body doubles are the WORST thing about the Donner Cut. And they're almost totally unnecessary, too.

[Ollie W]

Mar 1, 2009 22:48:07 GMT -5 @adam15 said:

Well I'm here to say that I know FOR A FACT that more Donner scenes exist... and I demand Mr. Thau tell the truth about his "restoration" attempts!!!!

What do you mean you know for a fact that more Donner scenes exist. I agree with you that more must have been shot but I wouldn't call it factual.

Mar 2, 2009 20:13:50 GMT -5 @adam15 said:

But Donner finished shooting all the fortress material... why wasn't it in there?

It just makes sense that Donner would have shot all the fortress material and many of the photos seem to prove that.

For those who had the pleasure of interviewing Thau I really wish that they'd pressed him on two things;
1. The possibility of more scenes being out there. (was a journal of sorts kept detailing what had been shot?)
2. Why he choose to use some really bad audio takes when better ones exist?

Having said all that I wouldn't take anything Donner says as absolute. Time and time again he tends to contradict himself and it may just be a case of his memory failing.

[Jor-L5150]

as an aside , for anyone fan-cutting SII , next week's ep of 24 will have a LOT of washinton DC and white house explosion/carnage military people ....etc.... just sayin'....
;D

[crazy_asian_man]

Heres the problem: the Donner Cut's largest problem BY FAR was not the editing; it was that there wasn't enough Donner footage.

I agree that there should have been more Donner footage included- but I disagree in that the editing was not one of the bigger problems as well...I agree that the story suffered greatly through cutting too many Lester scenes just because they were Lester's but....
I'm talking about the Donner stuff that ALREADY had been cut once in some incarnation and already existed in a better form BEFORE Thau touched it!

If you look closely at the Donner footage cut in the IRC or the Lester version, there are moments here and there (or even bits of dialogue--- particularly with Lois and Supes in the front of the Fortress) that I personally thought took the scenes down a notch....but then again, I don't want to go into all the discussions that were hashed out about shots and music/non-music choices etc. that Thau made- there's been too many posts on that.

But....we're all on the same page in wanting to see more Donner footage (in any condition, truth to tell) at this point. There have to at least be alternate angles if not scenes shot that Donner did for both films....hopefully THOSE will be preserved before they totally disintegrate through time....;0

[EvilSupes]

Mar 4, 2009 20:30:00 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

as an aside , for anyone fan-cutting SII , next week's ep of 24 will have a LOT of washinton DC and white house explosion/carnage military people ....etc.... just sayin'....
;D

Really? I haven't been watching the new series of 24 because I'm currently rewatching them all on dvd. But now you mention that, I'm gonna have to record that.

[atp]

When is Selutron's version coming out?