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Post by starchild on Sept 16, 2012 18:29:36 GMT -5
Kristopher ... I don't mind that people disagree with me at all. I just not sold on Cavill being Superman ... period.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 16, 2012 18:39:44 GMT -5
How can you be "sold" or "unsold" on the guy when there has been exactly one official image of him in costume released and none of us have heard him deliver a single line of dialogue in character?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 16, 2012 21:37:47 GMT -5
Being one of those who wish that things had just been EXTENDED from the Donnerverse (like SR did/tried to do)....
My argument would be is that the Donnerverse got so much 'perfect', that I just wanted to be able to see the possibilities of that universe on the bigscreen expanded as far as it could go, before reinventing the wheel with a reboot that has nothing to do with it.
Even though the Donnerverse got four movies, three and a half of them weren't very good--- nor really expanded what was in the comics, either. (Why couldn't we have gotten Brainiac with 3 or 4? Or Metallo or Parasite for that matter?)
I'll give credit to the Salkinds for this: they got the motor started on the Superman movies and even did a tv show and a Supergirl film (good or bad, at least it LOOKED like Supergirl from the comics and, hey, a movie at least got made).
By contrast: WB as a movie studio has had its Superman property locked in a vault for decades, and even when it came out of the vault, it's not like they did anything close to what Marvel has been doing in far less time.
So, anyhow--- old topic, but- to me, it's not like Star Trek, where they actually had a GREAT run of big budget movies with the original cast/design or Bond with (mostly) the same, and was time for a reboot.
Instead, we just had a set of films that had potential for being Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.---- but instead limps along and we get lucky now and then when there's a good one that comes out every six-seven years (?).
Moot point, but I'm not just curious now if MOS will be any good, but what's in store for the future of Supes on screen after that.
TRON made a bucketload of money, but no sequel, and in limbo again.
Fortunately, time passes by quick, we'll all find out soon enough....
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 16, 2012 21:41:48 GMT -5
CAM, have you had a chance to read that Superman V script that was up for awhile on Superman Cinema? The Cary Bates one? By far, it was the best expansion of the Donnerverse. Perfect way to introduce Brainiac and Kandor. It's a great read. Honestly, it's better than any version of Superman II that we got.
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Post by booshman on Sept 17, 2012 5:57:03 GMT -5
I'm not sold on Henry Cavill as Superman yet ... and if he did a great job as Superman/Clark Kent in his movie ... still doesn't eclipse Christopher Reeve at all. To me, Superman must go by the Christopher Reeve Standard and that Standard alone. So no matter how good he is in the movie, he's still not going to be good enough. I think it's sad that you (and others) seem determined not to enjoy any new form of Superman, since you won't view anything on it's own merit, without your Reeve blinkers on. The Reeve movies aren't going anywhere, they won't be deleted now we have a new incarnation of Superman. And it will be acceptable to like both. Bollocks! Can you point out his most prominent British features too me please? I think this is a case of you know he's English, so you "think" he looks English. Does Andrew Garfield look American or English? Maybe on his UK passport he looks English and on his US one he looks American, I dunno. I think the biggest prerequisite for playing Superman should be to look like Superman. Now I can't work out if Cavil has as typical Kryptonian features as Reeve did, but he looks OK to me. Looks a bit James Bond Jr in that shot. A bit too boy-ish. I think you're right though, he looks good in a suit, and could imagine him as Bond now he's a bit older. Unfortunately that's not going to happen now he's The Man of Steel. Haha, it will fail because of the design of the suit and the colour of Lois' hair, are you serious? The only reason having a non American will be a big fuck up, is if he can't do the accent. If Superman sounds like a reverse Dick Van Dyke, then yeah, he's the wrong guy for the job. Saying that it's wrong in principal, just on the basis that he's not American is stupid. Bale (English), Garfield (English/ American), Hemsworth (Australian), Jackman (Australian), Ledger (Australian), Reynolds (Canadian), Bana (Australian), Gruffudd (Welsh), etcI wouldn't bother, you're going to hate it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 17, 2012 10:50:18 GMT -5
I'll have to search that one out. I think I only got the Superman III script or outline that originally had Brainiac and Mr.Mxptlyk in it.
It's a pity that DC comics never chose to try to transform the unused scripts to sell as comics. I see Neil Gaiman's tv stuff adapted to comics, (I think IDW adapted Kevin Smith's movie script for Green Hornet as well in comics) weird that they don't see any market for it to try to do it.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 17, 2012 14:26:09 GMT -5
That Superman III outline is dreadful. No...you must do the Cary Bates script. It's out there. It's excellent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 15:15:22 GMT -5
I'm not sold on Henry Cavill as Superman yet ... and if he did a great job as Superman/Clark Kent in his movie ... still doesn't eclipse Christopher Reeve at all. To me, Superman must go by the Christopher Reeve Standard and that Standard alone. So no matter how good he is in the movie, he's still not going to be good enough. I think it's sad that you (and others) seem determined not to enjoy any new form of Superman, since you won't view anything on it's own merit, without your Reeve blinkers on. The Reeve movies aren't going anywhere, they won't be deleted now we have a new incarnation of Superman. And it will be acceptable to like both. Bollocks! Can you point out his most prominent British features too me please? I think this is a case of you know he's English, so you "think" he looks English. Does Andrew Garfield look American or English? Maybe on his UK passport he looks English and on his US one he looks American, I dunno. I think the biggest prerequisite for playing Superman should be to look like Superman. Now I can't work out if Cavil has as typical Kryptonian features as Reeve did, but he looks OK to me. Looks a bit James Bond Jr in that shot. A bit too boy-ish. I think you're right though, he looks good in a suit, and could imagine him as Bond now he's a bit older. Unfortunately that's not going to happen now he's The Man of Steel. Haha, it will fail because of the design of the suit and the colour of Lois' hair, are you serious? The only reason having a non American will be a big fuck up, is if he can't do the accent. If Superman sounds like a reverse Dick Van Dyke, then yeah, he's the wrong guy for the job. Saying that it's wrong in principal, just on the basis that he's not American is stupid. Bale (English), Garfield (English/ American), Hemsworth (Australian), Jackman (Australian), Ledger (Australian), Reynolds (Canadian), Bana (Australian), Gruffudd (Welsh), etcI wouldn't bother, you're going to hate it. Well said. Although worth noting Bale is Welsh
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 17, 2012 15:26:44 GMT -5
Connery was a rough Scot playing a 1950s upper class gent spy.
Miss Moneypenny was a Canadian. So was Bridget Jones. Hugh Laurie is English. heck, Frasier's Dad, Martin was from Manchester ;D
Anyone dissing Cavill cos he's English should just stay at home.
"Not sold on Cavill". Honestly, that's pathetic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 15:35:30 GMT -5
Gary Oldman is English, given some outstanding performances as Americans. Brad Pitt is American and played a highly convincing piker!
I find it hard to believe I'll ever look at another Superman and think 'he's better than Reeve was', but I'm not going to let that stop me from enjoying other incarnations. Its just sad
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Post by starchild on Sept 17, 2012 15:35:53 GMT -5
I will give you my reasons why I don't think Cavill be good in Superman ... Man of Steel in a day or two. I have write it up and share some things that might change your mind about him.
If you all disagree with me ... and chew me out big time and disrespect me ... I will leave this forum for good. I have very good reasons why I think that Superman ... Man of Steel Movie will not fare well in my own opinion. I been following Superman ever since Kirk Alyn to the present day and I'm a fairly good in judging on certain actors on playing the part of Superman.
I read and re-read many of your posts and I'm entitled to an opinion and I like to take time to make my opinion an educated one rather on a hunch.
I'm a fairly new member here and I for one, feel that I'm in the minority here and felt very unappreciated the fact that I feel that I felt that Henry Cavill is not the right man for the role of Superman period.
I will post my comments later on ... and give you guys several (maybe a week) to chew me out. If I feel that you think my comments is unwarranted and false. I will leave this forum for good and disconnect my account for good.
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Sept 17, 2012 15:38:07 GMT -5
I have no problems with the fact that Cavil is British. As long as he has an good enough American accent, and he portrays Superman/Clark Kent the way they should be portrayed, he should be fine.
I really think Cavil will deliver, possible better than Routh, just for the fact that Cavil has a little more range and experience under his belt, and sounds like he'll have more material to work with than what Brandon had.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 15:39:43 GMT -5
no-ones trying to disrespect you at all. I think you've made some great posts.
But some of us don't agree with your opinion on this subject, and as much as you're entitled to an opinion, we're entitled to give our opinion on your opinion if you follow.
People have taken the time to express why they disagree with you, not much more they can do.
I dont really think you're reasons for not being sold on Cavill came across as educated, but you like what you like, you dislike what you dislike blah blah
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 17, 2012 16:00:24 GMT -5
No you're not. You cannot judge any actor in any role until you've seen the performance. That's not opinion my friend but fact. Change our minds from what, exactly? Nobody has any opinions on him yet. You might as well write an essay that'll change our opinions on the next Bond actor. Sure, leave the forum if you can't handle someone challenge your judgements.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 17, 2012 16:06:04 GMT -5
For my two cents....
There's NOTHING that we can really talk that much about, with MOS not here yet and SR/RDC years old now--- so it's all fluffy opinion/speculation for the most part, no?
So long as someone doesn't have a quickee shoutout of 'this thing/that thing SUCKS and this person/that person is dumb for not agree with my opinion'---
Then, pro or con, ultimately any all talk about MOS (even casting) just all opinion and fluff.... and for me, anyways, entertaining distractions from real life problems.
If Starchild feels he/she has a giant reasoning one or the way or the other on casting, I'm curious to hear it.
At best, the forum I think is about being curious about differing opinions and discussing them in a friendly (enough) environment, and provoking thought.
At worst, the forum is about alienating people with different opinions and breaking up people into cliques of attack mode for thinking differently or having different opinions.
Fortunately, from what I've seen in the Superman Cinema threads, people have been pretty civil about disagreements, or kiss and make up, so to speak.
I hope to hear whatever it is that Starchild has to say about his/her opinion on Cavill. I might not agree, but at least ANY talk about MOS is a nice distraction from the world falling apart in real life....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 19:40:19 GMT -5
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 17, 2012 19:54:17 GMT -5
If it's from 92, then yeah.
I love the heck out of that. Read it, imagine all of the Kandor stuff to be an extension of what we know the Donnerverse Krypton to be, imagine if they had cast somebody cool from that era like Julian Sands or Peter Weller as Brainiac, and put on the Williams score.
From what I know, this was either gonna be Superman V with Reeve and company, or they were gonna re-cast with this one. One thing that was floated was bringing back Reeve and re-casting everyone else. I think at one point they were considering Gerard Christopher as Superman for this one, too?
Anyway. It's awesome. It's certainly better than III or IV.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 21:06:24 GMT -5
The one I uploaded is Superman Reborn from 1992, yeah.
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Sept 17, 2012 21:29:06 GMT -5
Wasn't the 1991/92 project called Superman:The New Movie?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 17, 2012 21:59:34 GMT -5
As much as I love his past work, Jackie Chan as Superman would suck, regardless of his performance. That's not opinion my friend, but fact.
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Post by booshman on Sept 18, 2012 1:23:35 GMT -5
I will give you my reasons why I don't think Cavill be good in Superman ... Man of Steel in a day or two. I have write it up and share some things that might change your mind about him. I think most objective people haven't made up their mind about him yet. I'm waiting until I see some footage before I start to get excited or worried. He looks good so far, but I'll reserve judgement until I see something more that a few quick flashes in the teaser. Not trying to disrespect you, but if you say you have reasons why the movie will suck, and reasons why Cavill is wrong for the part without actually stating anything to back it up, people will call you out on it. The fact Cavill is English, or the colour of Lois' hair are not good or convincing arguments. I think most here are familiar with all past live action incarnations of Superman, though you would have to be in your 70's have watched Kirk Alyn back in the day. I don't see how that would qualify anyone make their mind up about Cavill without having seen him in action though. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but you really need to back yourself up with more than generalisations. "A Brit playing Superman is heresy" doesn't sound educated or well thought out. I think the fact you're new shouldn't have anything to do with you not backing up your opinion with facts. If you were to say, "I saw Cavill in another film, I don't think he's a good actor", or "Cavill didn't convince me he can do a passable American accent due to his performance in ...", I think you would be making a much better case for your opinion. You still wouldn't be able to say categorically that Cavill isn't right for the role, as we haven't seen the film yet, but it would back up your doubts. As it stands your main point has been that he's not Reeve, which isn't a compelling argument. Wow, so if people don't agree with you, you threaten to leave the forum, twice in the same post no less. It doesn't matter if your viewpoint differs from mine or anyone elses, as long as you can back yourself up with something solid. The fact is though, that you appear to have made your mind up about this film, when I think most people are at last going to wait until next year to make their mind up.
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 18, 2012 1:32:23 GMT -5
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Post by MAVERICK on Sept 18, 2012 6:45:31 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D ;D
I love you.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 18, 2012 7:16:58 GMT -5
I wasn't joking!!!!
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 18, 2012 10:20:48 GMT -5
If Batman is any indication...
Bale is my favorite Batman BY FAR. He looked and acted the part better than Keaton, Kilmer or Clooney all who are American.
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