Superman Returns

[Valentine Smith]

With every new interview about it he gives, my hypothesis gets stronger.

There was no clear vision or game plan for his team when they got the job, and there was NEVER anything concrete even discussed about a sequel. There had to have been some seriously shady shit going on behind the scenes of this movie, because they clearly weren't told to "relaunch the Superman franchise", they were just told to "make a Superman movie...and bring it in under budget."

[Deleted]

Sounds about right.

The sequel, one would think, would've also cost around a hundred million, maybe a bit more.

I really hope one day we get the full story on everything that happened with Superman in the 90's and the 00's.

[stargazer01]

Apr 20, 2011 9:51:50 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Seriously? Why the fuck is anyone even ASKING Singer what he would have done differently? He made his movie, and now, he's backpedaling. This is a guy who, historically, I like...but lately he really just comes off like a douchebag.

I don't see it as backpedaling so much as being honest. I find it refreshing, versus directors who are so insecure about their standing in Hollywood that they have to put up a front that NO decision they make is questionable or worth second-guessing.

Also, consider the fan editors here who've gone back & forth and back & forth over decisions of what to keep/ what to cut out to make the best hybrid Donner cut endlessly.

George Lucas may have done a lot of things that people (and rightfully so, I think) question creatively, but I do think he's said one thing that was brilliant: (and I'm quoting from memory, which gets fuzzy in old age, so excuse if it's off) "Films are never really finished, but abandoned."

As for the writing, outside of maybe a couple of lines I thought that maybe went too far in replicating the Donner films, I'd say compare the script to the script for Xmen 3 that came out at the same time-
I thought the screenwriters delivered a lot of information very subtlely and effectively in SR, versus X3, where they didn't just hit you over the head with things, that they pummeled you to the ground with it.

(ie. In SR, it's NEVER said, "Superman, Jason is your son."- and the relationship between Lois and Supes is definitely complicated (and I thought fascinating because of the gray moral area of it) because Richard and Lois aren't married--- and everyone wants to do the right thing. )

Anyhow, moot point, but it's a movie that impressed me greatly, and I had giant expectations for both SR and STM, from being a Superman fan BEFORE the movies went onscreen, and I think my expectations were just as high as anyone here- but different things disappointed (I was underwhelmed by the plane rescue and lack of superhero action), but different things I didn't expect to surpass expectations (the character story and the complex relationship between Lois/Clark/Richard/Jason).

Personally, I want to hear more of what Singer would have done & more details- before/after.

Donner criticized his own choices on Superman and Superman II when time had passed (and he WELCOMED an audience preview that he couldn't get with STM), so second-guessing isn't necessarily the sign of a bad director after something is in the can, so to speak.

GREAT post, CAM. Yeah, Singer sounds proud of his film overall (I just feel this isn't the best time to talk about it).

And I also had high expectations for SR, and I was more than satistied, still am. It could have been better, but it is still a great Superman film to me. Funny, I was very skeptical about Routh as Superman before the film (Reeve was so great), but he soon won me over. He was just inspired casting, imo.

Though I absolutely love the plane rescue.

[atp]

Apr 19, 2011 12:49:38 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

Superman Returns is a very special film, imo.

I agree. I heard Superman Returns likes the zoo.

[stargazer01]

Apr 20, 2011 12:00:03 GMT -5 atp said:

Apr 19, 2011 12:49:38 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

Superman Returns is a very special film, imo.

I heard SR likes the zoo.

..... he at least LIKES something....

[SteveS]

I love Superman Returns.

As much as I also love Christopher Reeve, Superman Returns DESTROYS Superman III and IV.

Even if it may not be as good as I and II, it still is a FAR more worthy Superman III than the actual Superman III is sadly.

Returns was made and is now over with. It is what it is.

Now the franchise has moved on to the reboot, which is good and I am excited.

If I were Singer, I would be proud of what I made and say "to heck with anyone who didn't like it", I made the film I wanted to...and move on. NOt sure why he now feels the need to cave in and try to say he regrets some things about it.

[Legsy]

Apr 20, 2011 20:10:05 GMT -5 SteveS said:

I love Superman Returns.

As much as I also love Christopher Reeve, Superman Returns DESTROYS Superman III and IV.

Even if it may not be as good as I and II, it still is a FAR more worthy Superman III than the actual Superman III is sadly.

Returns was made and is now over with. It is what it is.

Now the franchise has moved on to the reboot, which is good and I am excited.

If I were Singer, I would be proud of what I made and say "to heck with anyone who didn't like it", I made the film I wanted to...and move on. NOt sure why he now feels the need to cave in and try to say he regrets some things about it.

EXAAAAAAACTLY!

[Jimbo]

Nicely said, Steve. I figured we'd agree on movies sooner or later. ;D

[ye5man]

f I were Singer, I would be proud of what I made and say "to heck with anyone who didn't like it"

Just a shame too many people didn't like it hence it tanked and it didn't get a sequel


Which I am glad btw. I'd much rather get a reboot than another SR

[crazy_asian_man]

Just a shame too many people didn't like it hence it tanked and it didn't get a sequel

A lot of people did like it- just not a billion dollars' worth as WB wanted.

I'm still scratching my head as to how $391 million dollars in ticket sales is considered a disappointment/failure.

If that many people liked a film I put out, I'd be grinning for a long time and be pretty proud of it. The price tag of the budget is a controversy that's another story- but if an expectation that every superhero film must make a billion seems pretty ridiculous.

[stargazer01]

Well said, CAM. The film also got lots of good/great reviews. And it made a bit more at the BO than Batman Begins. Remember that.

I just think that a lot of what's happening with SR right now is revisionist history. When WB started dragging their feet with the sequel, and before they announced the reboot, I remember a lot more people liking the film and wanting a sequel. But then they got on the reboot bandwagon and gave their back to SR and Brandon. Very fickle, imo.


Personally, I hate this reboot. Can't be excited about it at all. Just can't.

[ye5man]

A lot of people did like it

But not enough

And it made a bit more at the BO than Batman Begins. Remember that.

What was the BB budget? Its not about B.O. but ROI plus forecasting. I am surprised it didn't get a sequel but I can understand WB wanting to reboot (which is what they did for BB)

I hate this reboot

How can you "hate" a film before you've even seen it? Sounds to me like you don't even want it to be any good. I think you want it to fail bad just so you can feel better about yourself somehow

Very fickle

Yes. Considerably.

[Legsy]

Apr 21, 2011 10:47:23 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

Well said, CAM. The film also got lots of good/great reviews. And it made a bit more at the BO than Batman Begins. Remember that.

I just think that a lot of what's happening with SR right now is revisionist history. When WB started dragging their feet with the sequel, and before they announced the reboot, I remember a lot more people liking the film and wanting a sequel. But then they got on the reboot bandwagon and gave their back to SR and Brandon. Very fickle, imo.


Personally, I hate this reboot. Can't be excited about it at all. Just can't.

Singer is also at fault. He wanted to make Valkyrie instead of getting started on MOS.

But I digress, I'm excited about the future. I think Cavill is going to be an excellent Supes. He's a great actor.

[stargazer01]

But I digress, I'm excited about the future. I think Cavill is going to be an excellent Supes. He's a great actor.

He is? What has he done that's so great?

[ye5man]

What did Brandon do that was so great prior to SR?

[stargazer01]

Apr 21, 2011 12:58:21 GMT -5 ye5man said:

What did Brandon do that was so great prior to SR?

To answer your question, nothing as far as I know. And what does that have to do with my question about Cavill?

[atp]

Apr 20, 2011 20:10:05 GMT -5 SteveS said:

I love Superman Returns.

I sense a pattern emerging.

[ye5man]

Apr 21, 2011 13:23:54 GMT -5 @stargazer01 said:

Apr 21, 2011 12:58:21 GMT -5 ye5man said:

What did Brandon do that was so great prior to SR?

To answer your question, nothing as far as I know. And what does that have to do with my question about Cavill?

Point is, Routh was an unknown before who did a good job, maybe Cavill may do the same. Its probably a given Cavill will have more to work with anyway so he has a head start over Routh

[stargazer01]

Maybe he will, I don't know/don't really care, but that wasn't my question to Legsy. He thinks Cavill is a great actor, and I asked him why he think so.

[Deleted]

Gazer, perhaps it was in:

Whatever Works
The Tudors
Stardust
Tristan and Isolde
Blood Creek

It's kind of easy to judge someone on their acting abilities when you have seen them act rather than persecute them for not being Brandon Routh.

[stargazer01]

Aw, Kevin to the rescue! ;D

[Legsy]

Apr 21, 2011 17:08:50 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Gazer, perhaps it was in:

Whatever Works
The Tudors
Stardust
Tristan and Isolde
Blood Creek

It's kind of easy to judge someone on their acting abilities when you have seen them act rather than persecute them for not being Brandon Routh.

Thank you Kevin! I was in some stupid meeting for the majority of the day. I couldn't respond to Star question.

Stardust is freaking awesome! Star, if you want to learn more about Cavill, please check Stardust out. He's a very good actor. I'm not saying Cavill is a better actor than Routh, but he does have more experience. I am looking forward to watching Brandon in Dylan Dog, though. Can't wait till next Friday!

[Deleted]

You're welcome, Legsy!

Awww, Gazer! Awwwww! ;D ;D ;D

[stargazer01]

Apr 21, 2011 21:03:24 GMT -5 Legsy said:

Apr 21, 2011 17:08:50 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Gazer, perhaps it was in:

Whatever Works
The Tudors
Stardust
Tristan and Isolde
Blood Creek

It's kind of easy to judge someone on their acting abilities when you have seen them act rather than persecute them for not being Brandon Routh.

Thank you Kevin! I was in some stupid meeting for the majority of the day. I couldn't respond to Star question.

Stardust is freaking awesome! Star, if you want to learn more about Cavill, please check Stardust out. He's a very good actor. I'm not saying Cavill is a better actor than Routh, but he does have more experience. I am looking forward to watching Brandon in Dylan Dog, though. Can't wait till next Friday!

Thanks for the reply.. Is he the lead actor in Stardust? I remember hearing some time ago that the movie was very good. DeNiro is in it I think.

So you think Cavill is a great actor because he's been acting for a long time? Hm, I'm sure experience helps, but not in all cases; some people just don't have the talent, imo. There are many examples of that in Hollywood. I also think that the 'great actor' description is applied too liberally nowdays. I think a great actor is someone who excells at acting every damn time (or the vast majority of it). A good example to me was Jimmy Stewart.

And I don't see why you had to bring Brandon into this.. he had nothing to do with my question.

[Jimbo]

No, he was a side character in Stardust. Basically, he played a fop.

I haven't seen it, but I think the bulk of his work has been in the Tudors TV show.