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Post by stargazer01 on Jul 29, 2011 17:47:02 GMT -5
Nice!  just saw it on tumblr.com  |
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Post by Jimbo on Jul 29, 2011 17:47:45 GMT -5
Nice! The \S/ is too big.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 29, 2011 17:52:38 GMT -5
It's one case where I wouldn't have minded if WB made Singer have to take in ONE concession of a supervillain of sorts if they let him do everything else he wanted to in SR.
About the new Supes film:
With the world's economy and GL crashburning into the ground- I also wouldn't be suprised as well if either (1) the budget gets MAJORLY slashed, or (2) the plug gets pulled again.
They shoulda stuck with MOS.....
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charl
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Post by charl on Jul 30, 2011 1:07:40 GMT -5
cool Brandon Routh mask. would like to get me one of those
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 16:24:00 GMT -5
I've gone over it a million times in my head, and I think there are a couple of main reasons why Superman Returns just doesn't do anything for me.
1.) The characters as written have a ton of baggage, but I never believed it. You can drop viewers in the middle of a story and make it feel genuine if the cast has chemistry, and if the writing is good. I can believe the Marines in Aliens have been through a lot together because of the way the characters play off each other. They have a history that precedes the film, and it comes across in the way the characters interact. Same goes for Casablanca, which covers ground similar to SR. I never got that feeling from Superman Returns. The chemistry between Routh and Bosworth just isn't there, and the script substitutes hollow callbacks (You really shouldn't smoke...) for real character moments.
2.) The movie is deeply confused about what it wants to be. On the one hand, there are a ton of direct references to the Donnerverse. Some of them are goofy and a little dated- "Great Caesar's ghost." On the other hand, Luthor was apparently sent to Oz for his prison stay. It strictly adheres to the continuity and tone of the original films one minute, then it veers away from them the next. For every moment that feels warm and nostalgic- Jimmy calling Perry chief, "I hope this little incident," etc.- there's another that feels cold and contemporary, like when the henchmen beat the crap out of Superman. The tone is all over the place; it doesn't work as a believable continuation of the Donner films, and it's too dependent on them to exist separately.
3.) The story has problems that have been discussed many times, so I won't go back over them in great detail. The real estate plot makes no sense, the idea of Richard thinking Jason is his son brings up a ton of questions the movie never answers, and there's never any convincing motivation for Superman's journey back to Krypton- which sets the story in motion to begin with.
There are things to like about the movie- I liked Routh, even though the shortcomings of the script held him back in a lot of ways, and Ottman's score is superb. The plane rescue is thrilling, and I liked the art deco-flavored production design. Sam Huntington brought a lot of great energy to the table. For me, though, Superman Returns is just too much of a confused mess for me to connect with it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 17:06:04 GMT -5
Those are all very valid complaints, but I still love the movie. When viewed properly.
Gazer, that Routh video you posted...damn. Bittersweet doesn't cover it.
I mean, while I'm really glad we're gonna see a brand new version of Superman in every facet and that's AWESOME, it fucking kills me that there won't be another Superman as Routh with the Williams score. I'd take that in a heartbeat over a reboot. But ah well. I'll be at the midnight showing of MOS.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Jul 30, 2011 17:10:50 GMT -5
100% agree on that.
Film might have got away with it shortcomings had it just been upbeat. When Routh smiles at the camera at the end it feels wrong. Lex is still out there, he's just come out of hospital and he's just found out about the kid. The story stops mid way through.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 17:17:29 GMT -5
It's not really a smile. It's almost more of a condoling smirk.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Jul 30, 2011 17:58:16 GMT -5
I quite like the expression really, even if its not typical Superman
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 30, 2011 18:10:12 GMT -5
Good arguments here. As far as chemistry goes, either you feel it worked or it didn't. To me, with the combination of elements, (music/editing/writing) I felt that they sold their chemistry enough, but wasn't naturally there- by that, I mean I felt it enough just as I believe that Bale & Maggie Gylenhall did--- don't really feel they're acting soulmates, but it works enough for the story for me.
Was it a good a fit as Reeve/Kidder, who hated each other off-screen? Not really...nor do I think it's as good a match as Cain/Hatcher- but it's good enough.and Bosworth does a great job, although there are small bits to her that don't fit my image of Lois Lane. She also has a difficult sell, in that she has to pretend to hate Superman and carry a grudge for a long time- but also be torn between being still giantly-flawed Lois and be a young mom and genuinely show care for Richard as well.
If I never saw any other tv/movie incarnation of Superman, only the comics, I'd probably be fine with her portrayal, but am only nitpicking because we HAVE seen actresses that fit the bill a bit more than her. Still--- with this movie, I bought her enough for what she had to do, and I do think Singer made her look beautiful, versus other films where I never really noticed her. (I've not cared to see her in other films, but the cinematography/music/etc. really made her look like a movie star here, I think).
.
I hear what you're saying, and I don't think I totally disagree- the Lex -Donner real estate thing I've always said was a groaner at worst, a weakener of what we could have had at best.
However....
I've NEVER seen a superhero film where a successful director openly embraces with almost fully open arms another director's work- tries to keep the same artistic elements and designs, and take his own strengths and take it further, extending rather than destroying the orgiinal tone and melding with his own.
It's the polar opposite of Lester taking 50% Donner footage from SII, and adding his own to take out the reverential tone Donner had in it and replace it with his own 50% to end up being a half-Frankenstein mess that undermines itself. (Although I know that's how some feel about SR)
To me, it's a classic oddity in itself- although not a REALLY complete story- (no matter how you look at it- the inherent problem of what happens when Jason grows up & how does Richard find out Lois has been lying to him always eventually becomes an issue) - it's as if you took two great superhero film directors and blended them into one.
SR to me mostly transcends what came before..... but by accepting, not rejecting the original Donner model (easier way to go I always said). I mentioned "Empire Strikes Back" as a comparison before, (which is also an incomplete story), and I think it fits even moreso from this--- Lucas made a classic, Kershner took that classic and blended in his own aesthetics and took it further. (Then #3 destroyed it by adding Ewoks and making the fairy tale romantic love into a rather twisted incestuous crush, but let's not get into that)
SR missed the chance to do the climactic lightsaber battle with Darth Vader, in a sense, though, in the last act. If Lex used his knowledge and the knowledge of the crystals to create an artificial lifeform (redoing Nuclear Man in a way) and had Supes battle it out before lifting the island, it could have brought in more Tranformer dollars and sold more toys, but o well.....
I mentioned the real estate thing before, I totally agree. Now that we know that SR is the last Singer Superman film (unless...), I wish there had been a tidbit where it's quickly addressed in quiet fashion either way: that Richard discovers/acknowledges/is ok with Jason is his son ((I have a friend that SWEARS that Marsden is playing like he knows that Jason is Supes' son in the scene before she goes up to see Supes in the hospital, & that Lois is playing it as if she has made her choice w/Richard & will stick to it- thus, no goodbye kiss for Supes at the end of the film)) .... but again, I'm pretty sure that they would have done something to sew it up one way or another (flashback?) in the second film. O well...
I agree it's a bit confused, but not so much in my eyes that it can't make connect, but I do get it. It's like a slightly sloppy edit, where one doesn't want to let go of some things that it perhaps should (real estate angle for sure). One thing I AM glad was let go, was the reference to the photoshopped publicity photo of Martha and Jonathan Kent, that was in the deleted scene. Because it's a publicity photo that we're all so aware of from memorabilia (as opposed to another set photo from STM's time), that stood out like a sore thumb to me.
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Post by stargazer01 on Aug 1, 2011 13:22:42 GMT -5
Just saw this tweet. I like it! No disrespect to Reeve who I adore as Supes. asperzae asperzae
Cuando pienso en Superman viene a mi mente @brandonjrouth y no Christopher Reeve. ¿Estoy mal?Translation: "When I think of Superman, BrandonjRouth comes to mind instead of Christopher Reeve. It's something wrong with me? |
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atp
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Post by atp on Aug 1, 2011 13:35:29 GMT -5
Just saw this tweet. I like it! No disrespect to Reeve who I adore as Supes. asperzae asperzae
Cuando pienso en Superman viene a mi mente @brandonjrouth y no Christopher Reeve. ¿Estoy mal?Translation: "When I think of Superman, BrandonjRouth comes to mind instead of Christopher Reeve. It's something wrong with me? Tweet back: "Sí, hay algo mal con usted." |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 1, 2011 13:38:52 GMT -5
Gilipollas!
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 1, 2011 16:38:14 GMT -5
I love being a Gilipollas! Fixed. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 1, 2011 18:44:50 GMT -5
Is that a personal insult?
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 1, 2011 19:41:31 GMT -5
No. A joke. Have fun.
NINJA!
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Post by Jimbo on Aug 1, 2011 20:05:06 GMT -5
I live in California, and have never seen or heard 'gilipollas', shame on me. I shall add that to my arsenal.
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 1, 2011 20:40:20 GMT -5
It's now a part of the lexicon forever.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Aug 2, 2011 10:19:25 GMT -5
frankly i don't see whats left to bitch about.
it isn't like the old Donner/salkind flicks. pre-Internet. many of us only learned there was extra footage if we happened to see a TV edit. the entertainment mags covered it but most of us were little at the time.
then we have the Internet, and fans coalesce around site like supermancinema (we love you!) and we learn a lot, everyone contributes whatever they have in terms of old articles and interviews and there was a slow/steady growth in fan knowledge and we were able to campaign for film restoration and extra footage to be released...
great story there. very interesting time in superman history.
but now?
heck.
we knew that SR had cut scenes BEFORE the movie was released!
and while we didn't get all of it, we got the "BIG" stuff.
we knew WB thought SR underperformed before it went to DVD.
we had an indication the SR II was iffy mighty quick.
we have had th message board(s) since before and all through and ever since the SR flick was released.
there's really no "mystique" or "maybe they'll...."
NO ONE says "superman III and IV never happened".
every DVD release has acknowledged them.
what SR is, is an ALTERNATIVE sequel.
S:TM}SII}SII}SIV
OR:
S:TM}SR
since the superman films are based on superman comics, and the superman comics are replete with alternative histories, i don't see the big deal.
frankly, it wouldn't bother me at all for superhero movies to be stand-alone.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 2, 2011 10:47:07 GMT -5
I think after seeing some of the really cool story things that can happen when continuity is established in movie sequels (ie the Trek movie series when it was good)--- it's hard to forget what story advantages can happen if a sequel is done right- with the wealth of story material that can be covered/adapted in comics, it's frustrating to me that restarts and reboots are happening a little too often to me that we never even seem like we'll be able to SEE any of these stories in the comics, because it would depend on a series or a history of sorts in place. (*Batman rebooting soon, plus Superman and Spiderman rebooting) such that it's hard to see them really building something special like a 'Lord of the Rings' or a series of films that could really be amazing. The technology is finally here to do something incredible, but it's getting everything else lined up properly, it seems. I think I got spoiled by Star Trek:Next Generation. I know a tv series won't necessarily translate into a good series of movies, but who's to say that it's not possible if they don't try harder?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 12:00:09 GMT -5
Jesus Christ, this is still happening? What was SR? A sequel or what?
FUCK! It's been five years! And it doesn't matter anymore! If it ever did! MOVE ON! Please, people! Do you all REALLY give a single shit about whether or not SR is a direct or slight sequel to the Donner flicks? Is it THAT big a deal?
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 2, 2011 12:13:44 GMT -5
Nope, not until people get chastised for saying that they view it as a sequel. It's only those sad folks who make it an issue simply because you disagree with them.  You know, the ones who come running into the room out of breath every time a couple of people defend SR or say that they like viewing it as a sequel, so that they can belittle those couple of people & basically say that their opinion is invalid. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 12:33:24 GMT -5
I almost can't wait to see the bullshit this next movie creates on here. Exciting!
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 2, 2011 12:40:00 GMT -5
Nope, not until people *mindless noise*. So, what am I supposed to do with that? retaliate and go back and forth for days like you would? Unusual for a moderator to provoke arguments. Guess what chief, not happening. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 12:54:14 GMT -5
You two should just meet in an arena and have a duel, Amok Time-style. Kirk/Spock fight music and everything.
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just saw it on tumblr.com 
