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Post by Jimbo on Aug 12, 2011 12:40:35 GMT -5
Bay is an auteur. He could never be a gun-for-hire. He would absolutely change things to suit his tastes.
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Post by stargazer01 on Aug 12, 2011 12:43:15 GMT -5
No Superman movie has been a full-on action flick so far...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 12:48:03 GMT -5
Cypher, if they brought ANY of the episodes of the animated series to life, it would be fucking awesome.
I would LOVE to see a Michael Bay Superman movie. I really would. I'd take him over Snyder in a heart beat.
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Post by stargazer01 on Aug 12, 2011 12:56:44 GMT -5
so you see my point  Though I don't want it to be all action. But a good mix. But instead of it being a drama/action. I want it to be more adventure/action. But most of all I want it to be Fun. Fun is an element that is essential to Superman IMO, and I have never seen a Superman movie in the theatre that was fun. (I was too little to see any Reeve Movies in the theatre) I think your initial point was flawed: And to me the plane rescue in SR was kickass. And yes, a Superman film should have cool action, but more importantly it should have heart and emotion. Without those, it's an empty sheck. Superman deserves more. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 12, 2011 18:13:06 GMT -5
Superman near death in hospital 10 minutes before the end is not right. Why didn't he go to hospital initially after the "Passion" then end the film on a higher note?
Good Lord, Superman IV's plotting was better handled!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 12, 2011 18:54:38 GMT -5
Hate to break it to ya, but that's your own opinion--- I haven't seen your team, so I don't know if they would have been destined for greatness or not- (just to be clear, I'm just kidding). Sure, I've been disappointed before by things that seemed like a ''sure thing" - (ie Robocop II with Frank Miller script & Irvin Kershner directing; Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, with Lucas producing & the original cast; Spiderman 3 with Raimi directing)....but.... My faith is based on the giant body of work Singer has done or has produced, plus his experience with Xmen knocked it out of the park, imo. It's also based on what I thought they did amazingly RIGHT in a film that took on a tough assignment: Keep the Donner elements and continue it. Would it have been great? To ME, I think the odds are overwhelming.To anyone else, who knows? I don't care. But... Could it have been a disappointment? Sure. I'm not saying it's impossible- but to those who loved SR, it feels more likely we'd get more of the elements that we liked in SR, to those who found SR disappointing, of course those would feel like we'd get more of the elements that they found disappointing. The drama and character took center stage over the superheroics. If we had a sequel with everyone screaming "More action!", I have a feeling that we might have LESS drama/character and have it tilt more towards action, which would have been a fine balance for me. And the bits Singer said at the conventions mirror what I wanted more of: more action, after the fundamentals of that universe were setup. Just like "Wrath of Khan". Doesn't matter anymore. Hopefully Singer gets someone to help him flesh out what he felt the story would have been in FULL in comic form or book form, so we could open this discussion again, but right now, we got very little to nothin' except his past films to go by. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 12, 2011 19:09:21 GMT -5
The third act is about the human drama, over the superheroics, really. I think it was put earlier that the reason the film is challenging to some is because the structure seems so much more setup and a very quiet (but significant) payoff in terms of character. If it DID leave on a cliffhanger (go from the smile of Supes to pan up to outter space to see Brainiac's ship approaching, as an example), the structure might feel better.... but, in terms of traditional superhero stories- with a big empowering action set piece at the end, I'll grant that it's a different choice than the norm for the last act. The third act is VERY solemn, like it's all about him dying. (which was intentional, until the ray of hope in his son comes up)
As it is, I'm ok with it- but the superhero stuff was definitely bent to be subservient to the human story. I TOTALLY agree that on it's own- Superman vs. the Kryptonian living real estate- it would have been lacking.
The villain plot was devised to echo the character stuff. But if you did a fan edit and took out all the human drama going on with Supes/Lois/Richard---- it would be REALLY weak, and I'd be hard-pressed to even say that it even works. One of the screenwriters said it himself: he wanted more superheroic action stuff. I would have liked that, too.
Or- if I knew it was going to be the ONLY one- I would have rather that they either: (a) tied up the situation with the idea of Lois marrying Richard (with him knowing full well he was raising Superman's kid) but still have Supes be ok with it - or - (b) have Richard conveniently die at Luthor's thugs' hands so as to not have to deal with that loose thread.
Anyhow- I digress. The idea of Superman having vulnerabilities is great, I like what Singer did, though I always saw this movie as moving logically to what the character was going through--- I wouldn't want a sequel where he's still depressed/ keeps to himself, but it made sense here within the context of the story to see him beat up throughout the film (in one way or the other).
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Post by ger-el on Aug 12, 2011 21:52:17 GMT -5
I disagree. SR is not perfect, but after so many flawed attempts, I was pleased with what we got. The issue with Superman in the hospital is a big one. One big issue with Superman is how to make people care about a character that is almost like a god. Showing he has a weakness makes him more relatable.
Remember, Superman was born during a time of great immigration and that made him relatable in a sense. He was the ultimate immigrant. I think SR was just a set up that was constrained by the studio and mostly by the amount of money the studio had put into developing so many projects that never took off. I think Singer would have delivered in a sequel. X-Men 2 was a better movie than the first. I think there was great potential for a second film. I think Singer is a good director. I just think they may have needed writers more in tune with the characters in the story.
I think that people will go easier on the new movie because it is no longer the first one in 20 years. I don't think SR will ever be judged fairly. Hnd sight is 20/20 and we could all say what we could do better, but I personally enjoy what we got. I loved Routh. I loved seeing SR on screen. I didn't have the same issues as many with the suit. And for a time, I got to see my favorite character on screen again.
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Post by ger-el on Aug 12, 2011 21:59:59 GMT -5
CAam, that wasn't directed towards you. I actually agree with you thoughts. It was directed towards ye5man and Cypher. No hard feelings to either. I just thought the ending served a greater means than just making him weak. It also showed us a character that ultimately was happy and hopeful. But...that s my opinion. And none of us will ever agree.
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Post by stargazer01 on Aug 12, 2011 22:25:16 GMT -5
CAM, ger-el, great and insightful posts.
Yeah, no doubt SR was a good set up for great and compelling sequels. I think Singer could have done a great job with a sequel, just like he did with X2.
I think SR was a good re-intro to the character to new audiences, but unlike BB, it was never given the chance to a sequel.
Totally. I'm already seeing that, especially with the suit; you know, some fans complained that the SR suit was too dark/muted/too much texture/his hair was wrong/trunks too small/etc. But a lot of them seem ok with the new suit when I think it's like the SR on steroids. Maybe Nolan's supposed heavy involvement is enough for some to believe it will all be alright.
If the new film ends up having lots more action (especially Superman throwing punches), and makes more $ at the BO than SR, many will say that it's proof Snyderman is the superior film.
Who knows, time will tell. There is A LOT of revisionist history at the moment, though. Negative one.
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Post by ger-el on Aug 12, 2011 22:46:34 GMT -5
Stargazers, I agree on ALL points. Particularly about the suit. I find it to be hypocritical. There are things that I like about the SR suit. There are things I like about the new suit. But don't complain about the SR suit (especially the colors) when the new suit isn't much different. I don't get it.
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Post by erikhh on Aug 13, 2011 22:44:34 GMT -5
Superman Restored (Superman Returns 2011 fan cut) now available for download!!Watch the teaser trailer here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC1g_Aq3dUc&feature=player_embedded** First of all, I did not personally create this fan cut. I just want you guys to see it and help the author with spreading the word, I am going to watch it as soon as possible. Just got back from a 2 months visit to my girlfriend and her family in Mexico City, in one week she will move in with me here in Denmark 
All credit goes to Julian Francis Adderley, a professional Editor with over twelve years of experience. **Description:The man of steel is back on the big screen in this fan edit of Superman Returns that seeks to restore the original tone of the film set out by the filmmakers. Superman Restored was created with the utmost attention to detail in preserving the integrity and quality to the overall presentation in a version of the film that, unlike other fan edits, would not draw attention to itself. Superman Restored was made by fans for fans and is not intended to replace the original film but to offer a window into the what the theatrical release could have been before it was decided to radically alter the film's original presentation. Specs:Video: H.264, 960 x 400, Millions Audio: AAC, 2 channels, 44100 Hz FPS: 23.98 Data Size: 1.47 GB Data Rate: 1,296.38 kbit/s Current Size: 949 x 400 pixels Important info regarding copyright issues from the author Julian, taken from supermanhomepage.com:"Again, I stress that you must own a copy of Superman Returns in order for your download to be legal. Otherwise you are infringing on copyright. As I am not, nor am I willing, to earn a dime from this endeavor I forever stand by the fair use law. Enjoy everyone. I hope this is, at the very least, a more satisfying viewing experience than you might have had in 2006. Up, up and away!" Great review of this fan cut from a member on the Supermanhomepage.com:#56 | Lucread on August 12, 2011 6:13am EST ".......................... oh my god. Okay, I have say this before I can say anything about the edit so you can better understand how phenomenal it is. When I first saw the movie in theaters at the 10pm Thursday release showing, I was massively dissappointed, but at the same time I felt there was something there. I was dissappointed becasue the pacing was akward, cheesey stupid lines were interjected that killed the mood, and most of all because Superman was such a whiney emo stalking moody cry baby. Ever since that first viewing, I've had a hard time sitting through the film in its entirety, and would almost always skip around to my favortie scenes. As such, I have sought out many fan edits of this film, hoping that they would be better. The best I had ever found was the ADigitalMan edit, but even that couldn't really keep me because it was mostly just basic additions. This is different. From the get go you have a different feeling. Underlining the score at the beginning set a precident and built a mood. As the edit progresses you find yourself watching a movie that seems familiar, but is wildly different than what you remember. The cheesey one-liners that kill the mood are gone, and thus the film is allowed to pull you in. THe pacing has ben reset, making long scenes seem shorter as they are split apart for better story telling. And best of all... Superman is no longer whiney throughout. What I mean by this is that Superman no longer feels like a whiney little emo brat. He no longer pines and squeals. And he doesn't go stalking his "ex," checking in on her within the privacy of her own home. Instead we are given a display of a struggling Clark. A man who is dealing with the issues without the whine. The pining is less of a focus, and instead you are allowed to see a man with tormenting regret. And that is a wonderful thing for this character piece. These things together with fantastic hollywood grade film editing and we have a movie that is finally worthy of the name Super. The potential I saw in the movie all those years ago has finally been realized through this edit, and I just simply find that astonishing. Not only would I say that this is hands down the best fanedit of the movie, period... but I would go so far as to say that this is the best executed fanedit of all time (and I've seen more than my fair share, and have even worked a couple myself). It goes without saying that this is best version of Superman REturns anyone could ever hope for, and I am very happ to now have it in my collection. I never thought I'd say this, but Superman Returns, thanks to this edit, has breached my top five favorite superhero movies of all time. Quite a feat as just yesterday, it was pusing it to even think about placing it in my top twenty. I honestly don't know what more praise I could give to this edit. Thank you, Julian (ITHoTMK), for this wonderful work. Bryan Singer could learn a thing or two from you about presentation. EVERYONE NEEDS TO SEE THIS EDIT." Link to the torrent:www.demonoid.me/files/details/2709672/001334515544/Don´t forget that you MUST own a copy of Superman Returns on DVD or Blu-Ray to download the fan cut legally, and please seed Enjoy it, and thanks again to Julian for making this cut! Danish Superman Fan
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Post by stargazer01 on Aug 14, 2011 17:15:33 GMT -5
Just saw this tweet. I ask myself the same question often.
ameyapendse Ameya Pendse
Forgot how much I like 'Superman Returns'. Why didn't they make a sequel w/ Brandon Routh?
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 14, 2011 17:56:43 GMT -5
Shhhhhh.......I hear footsteps ;D
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Post by stargazer01 on Aug 14, 2011 20:13:27 GMT -5
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 14, 2011 20:21:03 GMT -5
AWESOME find! Thanks!  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 15, 2011 4:03:35 GMT -5
After all the time that's passed & hearing the different views on SR- I've come to the conclusion that Superman's history in the comics/movies/tv worked for and against how SR was received. The mainstream moviegoer (the ones that weren't giant Superman fans) on the surface seemed to like it enough to give it the big box office it got; it certainly didn't get it just by being the first Superman film in a long time- it had to have been enough good word of mouth- But for those who were giant Superman fans- there were elements that were 'controversial' by not only not having some of the set pieces that they wanted, but also by making the story be about a rather dark internal struggle that the main character had in returning back to Earth, and having to pay the consequences for being gone for so long. (One of which cuts the deepest: that the world WILL go on with or without him. Painful pill for anyone to swallow on some level) Even with time passing, it's whatever one comes to the table for when they approach the character that'll dictate how they feel about it. My young nephew won't love this film- he's too young for it to have that kind of magic to it. And, for those who grew up with STM- they'd have a split: either feel the same way (that it's wayyy too dark and fatalistic in spirit for a Superman film, or a magnficent & mature natural extension of a lot of stuff from the Donner film) Singer approached it with incredible seriousness- but with his own unsentimental approach to filmmaking. It has a dark (and somewhat twisted) sense of humor, but cynical this movie is NOT, and that's what makes the movie work for me. The movie is primarily a love story between Superman and Lois, but one that's soaked in regret, pain, and consequences. There's no turning back time in Singer's world, and that was a bummer to some. Even moreso, the idea of introducing a real-world idea: that intimacy between two people could create a child, even in a superhero world, even worse, (in the eyes of those who need to see a Superman movie with a certain worldview) an unexpected child prior/without being married first. (Sarah Palin and her 'illegitimate' grandchildren must hate this film and what it stands for) Anyhow- back to my point- even over time, if this movie is looked at again.... I think it'll still polarize among Superman fans. To some fans, Superman represents a certain time and a certain fantasy of a particular type of world that maybe doesn't have such dark or introspective elements. To others (like myself), this movie is amazing because it did something very rare - and (to me) it worked- it took an extremely special movie adaptation of the most famous comic book character in history (if we don't count Mickey Mouse & the like), and then did an extremely rare updating of that, embracing most of the elements of the original, and then adding on to it & cleverly weaving in (sort of) the time passage of how/why the character may seem a little more 'innocent' and 'pure' in an age that now seems anything but. To me, the original Donner films did something special back in '79, that even went further (in many ways) than the comic book did. Singer took that in 2006, and made something special but different and went even further than that imo. But- in doing so, he took it down a darker path & also didn't bring the fireworks at the same time. SR is a melancholy film, but there's a lot of humor in it and is shot & edited in a really classy fashion. It's not for everyone. It's certainly not for 7-year old kids- but, perhaps 15 year olds or older- And even 20-30 years from now, I think that'll still be true. It's not necessarily for the whole family. But then again, I don't think "Dark Knight" is either. But, if one was hoping for a "Back to the Future" type family-entertainment, SR isn't that, and I doubt will ever be looked at in that way. Thus, (I think) that's where the major split is between the Superman fans is on this film.  |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 15, 2011 4:46:57 GMT -5
Lack of action hurt it more than anything else IMO
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 15, 2011 5:57:53 GMT -5
I've always said it could have had more super-hero action or that the action that was there, in parts, could have been conceived in a stronger way* ... in that, we agree. (*i.e. Even saving Metropolis could have been far more creative and fun, given all the different powers Superman had/has to solve the problems happening all at once- as well as saving Richard/Lois/Jason on the boat- although having said that, I do love the recharging under the sun & the way that they handled the bit w/the land mass that he pushes into space & falls to earth) |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 15, 2011 8:03:39 GMT -5
The feel-good factor also was sorely missing.
How amazing is that helicopter rescue sequence in STM? Its all feel-good. Reeve's smile and presence sells the whole thing. Routh's Supey felt obligated; Reeve's Supey was clearly enjoying himself. The audience enjoys themselves more that way
Routh's Supey seemed to be second guessing whether to save the plane in the first place or not. That's no fun. Check out the Paris opening in S2: no messing about.
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Post by Paul (ral) on Aug 15, 2011 9:16:20 GMT -5
The feel-good factor also was sorely missing. How amazing is that helicopter rescue sequence in STM? Its all feel-good. Reeve's smile and presence sells the whole thing. Routh's Supey felt obligated; Reeve's Supey was clearly enjoying himself. The audience enjoys themselves more that way Routh's Supey seemed to be second guessing whether to save the plane in the first place or not. That's no fun. Check out the Paris opening in S2: no messing about. A bit like Jor-El's talk after the first night "You enjoyed...it?!" In Superman Return's defence...before the plane rescue he had been reading the article "Why the world doesn't need Superman". A Pulitzer Prize winning article no less. His smile while the crowd cheers after the rescue is his validation....it's just a pity we don't see him revelling in it more through more rescues...having fun with it. |
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 15, 2011 9:23:27 GMT -5
They showed him doing lots of rescues all over the TV sets in the Daily Planet, showing that he's back into the swing of things. Even giving a wave to the camera after putting out a fire. And then they show a fun little moment as Clark at the Planet where he's enjoying seeing it all on TV. Loved those scenes. I must say though, about the scene on TV where he can be seen stopping a Deli robbery on surveillance camera, I wish they had shown it for real, because he looks to be having a great time there as well  |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Aug 15, 2011 9:32:04 GMT -5
What, in those "blink and you miss it" scenes?
Not good enough. The fact you had to paste pictures of them to remind us says it all.
Not a personal attack on anyone here btw.
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Post by MAVERICK on Aug 15, 2011 10:19:02 GMT -5
Point is, him enjoying seeing it on the TV, shows that he's having a good time with it.
And yes, I would rather have seen the scenes in the movie, instead of on the TVs. But the scene is fun as it is & makes it's point.
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atp
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Post by atp on Aug 15, 2011 10:52:27 GMT -5
Routh's costume is actually starting to grow on me too. It looks pretty good in the New Krypton scene, especially after he gets stabbed and falls into the water. It stands out well.
I just wish it wasn't such a dark blue.
The movie is too dark in general. On my DVD, I can hardly even see Superman and Lois flying at night. He's also practically invisible in the final flying scene right at the end.
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