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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 19, 2011 22:15:51 GMT -5
So watched the movie today. Loved it. So magical and poignant.
Some scenes are too grainy as usual (watched it on TV) and dark. And sorry but Kate isn't that great as Lois. I felt it the very first time I saw the movie, tbh. But she isn't terrible either. She's pretty good in some scenes, but she just comes off as way too young for the role. I think she'd be better with a different hairdo like the one she used in a movie with Spacey. I think it was called '21'? Not sure, but she looked very sexy there. She IS a pretty girl. She was also a bit too skinny in SR. More curves could have helped her to look and seem more..um, adult?
Everybody else was very good, especially Brandon and Spacey. I put especial attention to Brandon's acting this time. Wooden? Not at all. I think he was spot on, really good all around with his body language, lines, and especially with his facial expressions. He also looked pretty big in the suit in most scenes. I love the SR suit, it's so elegant and classy. I've really grown to love it. I think the high neck makes him look more professional. I still wish the red looked brighter in the movie, but it isn't a deal breaker. It looked bright enough during the whole plane rescue at least.
I loved it when Supes said goodbye to Lois in Richard's plane (after they rescued him). He knew he was probably going to die, so he made sure to this time say goodbye to the love of his life. He was not going to make the same mistake he made when he went back to Krypton. And poor Richard, he should know by now that his Lois really cares for Supes.
And the sun recharge is probably the most beautiful Superman scene ever filmed. So poetic and epic. And the way he shoots back towards the sea is so chilling. You can see such determination in his eyes. The falling back to Earth scene is also great and very, very sad.
I liked how when Lois visits Supes in the hospital, she kisses him and quickly looks at the monitor like expecting a miracle. Like a fairytale kiss. I'm pretty sure that's what Singer had in mind. I really like it and reminds me of when Superman kisses Lois when she dies in STM. It's the same type of reaction.
Another very interesting scene is when Richard takes Lois to the hospital and they kiss in the car. Richard KNOWS Lois still loves Superman, but he loves her too and KNOWS Superman really needs her right now. Richard is such an great and kind man. But he makes sure to tell her that he's still there for her. She knows she doesn't deserve him.
Superman's speech to his son is as beautiful as ever. I adore it.
Wonderful score all around too.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Sept 20, 2011 20:29:54 GMT -5
I absolutely love Supes' goodbye on the plane. Brandon's best moment, by far.
The sun recharge and the descent into the fortress before he realizes it's been burglarized are my two favorite visuals in the film, and certainly rank up there with the best Superman visuals in ANY incarnation of the character.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2011 2:50:55 GMT -5
When you put it like that.....it feels a bit uncomfortable. The thing that slayed me in SR was that the writers/filmmakers were able to (imo) make what could have been bad soap opera material into something moving with heart, without dipping into sentimentality. It's hard to envision how this team could have 'unravelled' or 'solved' the love triangle in the sequel - without becoming bad soap, but given what they were able to do with X2 and SR, I have/had giant faith that they could have pulled it off--- If Jason were set to die in the sequel, that's pretty brutal. That would be more extreme than Rachel's death in the Dark Knight. If Richard were set to die in the sequel, it would be shocking, but it just feels like that might have been the case to get out of the situation. Hopefully there's SOME interviewer that's also curious enough to bring the question to Singer when he promotes his future films. Also, hopefully it'll be in my lifetime....  |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 21, 2011 4:49:07 GMT -5
Would have felt too convenient.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2011 12:34:13 GMT -5
I think, like most ideas, it'd be all in the execution of it.
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 21, 2011 13:04:01 GMT -5
I think, like most ideas, it'd be all in the execution of it. Exactly. And for my hard-earned $$, Singer did a very good job with the drama in SR. Let's face it, it's a very sentimental/emotional film, but it was done in a very classy way. Singer SHOWED us instead of using cringe inducing and overly cheesy dialogue (or awkward facial expressions. cough Spidey 3). The only line that makes me cringe a lil bit is when Lois says 'I forgot how warm you are.' ;D She's really saying 'God I had forgotten how Hot you are, Supes!' Which is the truth but still. |
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Post by MAVERICK on Sept 21, 2011 13:43:01 GMT -5
I don't think that line is cheesy at all.
It's subtle continuity at its best.
"I should get a sweater * Nah you'll be warm enough" STM
"I guess I should be freezing but I'm not" - SII
"I forgot how warm you are" - SR
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 21, 2011 14:25:32 GMT -5
It's good continuity, yes, but the way she says it, and the moment she does makes me think of that. I don't really dislike it, it's.. romantic.. but it does make me giggle a bit every time.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2011 15:19:56 GMT -5
If someone were to tell me the same storyline, but with Brett Ratner or Zack Snyder directing for SR--- I'd have predicted disaster, but Singer/Ottman made SR glide on a thin line of fantasy and complex adult romance (the morality issue REALLY goes to the edge, without crossing over Supes' codes. *) -
Here's a question: if Lois MARRIED Richard before Supes returned, then would ANY of his actions have been ok with approaching Lois?
I'm assuming the answer is 'no'.
Probably everything that was 'on the edge' of inappropriate behavior would have crossed over into the 'dark side'.
(*Having said this, the 'spying on Lois' thing is definitely questionable for Supes, with his powers - if it was accidental, then it would be extremely convenient.... so I could see why they made the choice to just make it deliberate--- but perhaps the music suggests such melancholy with Supes, that one goes with it and is -to a degree- sympathetic with his actions)
Anyhow, Singer created/tackled a tricky story, with what I thought was mostly a graceful sense of storytelling. I can't figure out how he would have pulled off resolving some of these things (I imagine that Richard discovers Jason's abilities & parentage at some point of the film.). but given the body of work he's done and how SR turned out, I have confidence that he would have solved it. (imo)
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Post by atp on Sept 21, 2011 15:50:26 GMT -5
I don't think that line is cheesy at all. It's subtle continuity at its best. "I should get a sweater * Nah you'll be warm enough" STM "I guess I should be freezing but I'm not" - SII "I forgot how warm you are" - SR There was also another instance of the subtle continuity. "He can't see through lead. And Kryptonite will destroy him." - STM "You're hurting him... That's Kryptonite!" - S3 "Kryptonite. It's deadly
to him." - SR |
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 21, 2011 15:51:15 GMT -5
Agreed. I think Supes got the impression that Lois was still carrying his torch to a degree. I think the writers wanted to imply that when then had Jimmy telling Clark that she hated the question about 'tying the knott' and later at the bar that he thought she was still in love with you know who. So maybe that's why Clark wanted to spend some time alone with Lois to find out more about her real feelings for Richard/Supes, but she just wasn't willing at the time or was too busy.. (honestly, Lois was a bit too bitchy to poor Clark). So, I think in his desperation for answers he went to her house to see/hear for himself how happy, or not, she really was with Richard. And he was punished for it. Also, like you say, the whole scene was very melancholic, so I quite felt sorry for him. He found his home world was really dead, and the woman he loved had moved on. Sure 5 years had passed for the Lois, but to him it was much less than that. I think he was in a state of shock. That's why that scene never bothered me. And I never understood how insensitive some people are when they call him a 'creepy stalker' ugh. He wasn't creepy at all! But soon Supes would realize that Lois was in good hands with Richard, and it was then when he let her go completely. I felt sympathy for him. I'm confident too. I think Singer was going for a single Supes, honestly. Like Lois said, Superman belongs to every one. I think the films stablished that their love was an impossible one. Yeah, it's not so 'happy-go-lucky' but at least they gave him a son. At least Supes got to really feel the love of a woman, and then the realization that he wasn't the last of his kind.  |
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 21, 2011 16:51:38 GMT -5
www.primerplanonews.com/noticias.php?idn=10545Bryan Singer to receive el Gran Premio HonorÃfico de Sitges 2011. Sounds like an important award since he's going to go to receive it in person and is even going to give a class, in filmmaking I assume. Sounds like the award comes from Argentina. It also says that it's because of his great talent as a filmmaker, and they mention the X-Men films, SR, House, etc.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2011 19:01:36 GMT -5
When put that way, it makes sense, with all the accumulative things put upon the character.
I think the fact that there seems to be little hesitation to eavesdrop (which is what it is, basically) - can break a sense of protocol or trust. I took it as Supes listening in/looking in on EVERYONE now and then like a protector/father figure..... even if it does violate a sense of privacy, for sure. (You'd think that Lois would talk in a leadlined room by now if she didn't want Supes to hear/see anything)
Still, a simple solution writing-wise might have been (although a contrivance) for Lois to forget an object (maybe a purse or whatnot) while talking to Clark on the street--- and then Supes brings it to her door- and THEN overhears/sees the discussion.
That way, it's less deliberate.... now, it's not a dealbreaker for me to love the movie, but I actually always had more of a question as to why Superman felt comfortable sleeping with Lois, but not willing to reveal his identity to her. That part seemed more odd, but I think things also would have been a bit more cleared up with a sequel...
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Post by Metallo on Sept 21, 2011 19:38:16 GMT -5
I don't think that line is cheesy at all. It's subtle continuity at its best. "I should get a sweater * Nah you'll be warm enough" STM "I guess I should be freezing but I'm not" - SII "I forgot how warm you are" - SR There was also another instance of the subtle continuity. "He can't see through lead. And Kryptonite will destroy him." - STM "You're hurting him... That's Kryptonite!" - S3 "Kryptonite. It's deadly
to him." - SR Theres never really been any consistency on Kryptonites effects on Superman. On Lois & Clark Luthor threw him in a small cage MADE of the damn stuff. Wasn't even the worst offense that show made when it came to the K. Sometimes its harmful to humans and sometimes it isn't. Hard to say how long or how much expose it would take before it would finally kill him. Sometimes he has powers and sometimes he loses ALL power. The movies couldn't even be consistent with Supermans powers. Even the Donner Cut has Zod levitating a shotgun. Thats what happens when you deal with a fictional element and fictional physiology. |
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Post by Metallo on Sept 21, 2011 19:41:08 GMT -5
When put that way, it makes sense, with all the accumulative things put upon the character. I think the fact that there seems to be little hesitation to eavesdrop (which is what it is, basically) - can break a sense of protocol or trust. I took it as Supes listening in/looking in on EVERYONE now and then like a protector/father figure..... even if it does violate a sense of privacy, for sure. (You'd think that Lois would talk in a leadlined room by now if she didn't want Supes to hear/see anything) Still, a simple solution writing-wise might have been (although a contrivance) for Lois to forget an object (maybe a purse or whatnot) while talking to Clark on the street--- and then Supes brings it to her door- and THEN overhears/sees the discussion. That way, it's less deliberate.... now, it's not a dealbreaker for me to love the movie, but I actually always had more of a question as to why Superman felt comfortable sleeping with Lois, but not willing to reveal his identity to her. That part seemed more odd, but I think things also would have been a bit more cleared up with a sequel... Superman was raised as a human so it makes sense that he would have some if the same weaknesses as a human. If anything it made him seem less perfect..which is more relatable than infallible demigod. Thats been some peoples problem with Superman for decades. |
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 21, 2011 23:17:17 GMT -5
Good post, metallo. Yeah, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
What I find hilarious is that some Superman fans are perfectly ok with Superman practically abusing his powers at the end of SII when he punished Rocky. They are also ok with Superman having sex with Lois and abandoning the world for her. They are also ok with the amnesia kiss and the turning back the world. But they aren't ok with Supes spying Lois out of love and desperation. I don't get it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2011 23:39:44 GMT -5
For this fan, there's a lot in that list I wasn't crazy about. (Neither the amnesia kiss nor turning back the world are logical solutions to me for writers who write themselves in corners, fantasy or no)
For my part, the music helps it out a lot, so suggest the frame of mind that Supes is in. But, I think a number of fans who aren't ok with it look at it in maybe TOO realistic terms and would feel uncomfortable themselves spying on a loved one - regardless of the situation. Flipped around, would you realistically want an ex-boyfriend hiding in the bushes listening in to private conversations?
Again, because of many of the things you mentioned, I could see the accumulation of things getting to him...so, to me, it's not a BIG thing in the context of all.... but it wouldn't have hurt the movie one bit, I think, if they found a way to make it more accidental- like many movie situations where a sympathetic character overhears something that hurts him/her, but not intending to... it might not have rubbed some Supes fans the wrong way.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 21, 2011 23:40:52 GMT -5
For this fan, there's a lot in that list I wasn't crazy about. (Neither the amnesia kiss nor turning back the world are logical solutions to me for writers who write themselves in corners, fantasy or no)
For my part, the music helps it out a lot, to suggest the frame of mind that Supes is in. But, I think a number of fans who aren't ok with it look at it in maybe TOO realistic terms and would feel uncomfortable themselves spying on a loved one - regardless of the situation. Flipped around, would you realistically want an ex-boyfriend hiding in the bushes listening in to private conversations?
Again, because of many of the things you mentioned, I could see the accumulation of things getting to him...so, to me, it's not a BIG thing in the context of all.... but it wouldn't have hurt the movie one bit, I think, if they found a way to make it more accidental-((* like many movie situations where a sympathetic character overhears something that hurts him/her, but not intending to...)) it might not have rubbed some Supes fans the wrong way.
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 22, 2011 1:50:16 GMT -5
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Post by EvilSupes on Sept 23, 2011 9:41:51 GMT -5
It's so weird, but I've been thinking back to my last viewing of SR recently and EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING people complain about and even stuff I wasn't so keen on, just didn't bother me. I just took it for what it is, which I suppose is because I am not looking for things to nitpick - just wanted to sit down and enjoy a superman movie which I am afraid is not the same anymore for SII and SIII!
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Post by Metallo on Sept 23, 2011 10:12:07 GMT -5
I think some people had higher expectations and because the movie ended up being mediocre it just stung that much more even though far worse movies have been released in recent years.
Green Lantern was a far more stupid movie with more plot holes.
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Post by stargazer01 on Sept 23, 2011 10:49:08 GMT -5
SR is not mediocre. It's as good as STM to me or even better.
I just think the film wasn't what some wanted. But for me, it was more than I was expecting. I thought it was going to be another cheesy superhero movie like Spiderman.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 23, 2011 11:48:11 GMT -5
I thought both were great- lines up with some of the best superhero films imo- with some portions being FANTASTIC but, to me, both had bits that were weak as well.
(The Brooklyn bridge scene in Spiderman, Luthor's subplot and some snarky things on continuity that could have been better handled).
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Post by Metallo on Sept 23, 2011 12:26:15 GMT -5
I enjoyed Superman Returns a lot but I can't put it in that upper echelon of films like STM, Batman, The Dark Knight, Iron Man, X2, and Spider-man 2.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 24, 2011 3:04:15 GMT -5
SR is a mixed bag, I'm disappointed/underwhelmed in parts, but the parts I like are SO above and beyond, that it outshines the weak stuff.
If going for TOP echelon of superhero films, I know it's subjective, but if I go by 'how often do I need to speed search/do I need to speed search on the remote'.... While I know I said that SR ranks among some of the best, in my list, it's in the top twenty, but not my top ten necessarily, either. When the movie has Routh front and center, I'm fine with it, (most of the time) but when it goes to Luthor's real estate plot - the movie gets a lot less interesting imo. (Not Spacey's fault) While the Luthor stuff works enough, it's JUST enough.... and, after seeing how tight the Dark Knight was even when Batman WASN'T on the screen, makes the weakness of Luthor's conception and subplot even more apparent.... to me.
(Aside: Personal top ten: ((in no order))- X2, Spiderman 2, The Crow, Captain America, Spiderman, Iron Man, STM, Batman Returns, Xmen-First Class, The Incredible Hulk)
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