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Post by Valentine Smith on Apr 8, 2012 22:05:47 GMT -5
While I'm very much of the "Snyder is guilty until proven innocent" school of thought, I have yet to see a single image or piece of casting for this movie that I've disliked. So, for the moment, these little things are outweighing my skepticism. I'm really looking forward to the trailer with DKR.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 8, 2012 22:13:26 GMT -5
Maybe if Snyder hadn't made some asstard stupid mistakes with Watchmen I might have more faith in him. He's the one that has to prove he can make MOS work. I don't owe it to them to give them my money.
And am I REALLY supposed to suddenly get excited instead of a sense of dread about a guy who wants RAPE zombies? Oh yeah... Rape zombies.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Apr 8, 2012 22:23:19 GMT -5
I'm just holding out hope that he has very little actual creative control and that they're not letting him be his "auteur" self with this one. I can't help but think that he's on thin ice at WB considering what massive failures his last three movies were.
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Post by Kamdan on Apr 8, 2012 23:48:57 GMT -5
Maybe if Snyder hadn't made some asstard stupid mistakes with Watchmen I might have more faith in him. Just be glad he didn't make the Sam Hamm penned screenplay. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 9, 2012 2:13:16 GMT -5
I think it's the limits of communicating on the internet that begets a lot of misunderstandings. I think that that Singer didn't go the safe route of making an action packed feel good movie when the studio probably would have wanted to (Thinking Ratner's X-men 3 with a happy ending) and doing a risky take of making Superman introspective and internally depressed from his return ballsy imo... There's nothing for EITHER of us to 'get'..... it's perfectly fine for folks to look at the same thing and come to completely different conclusions. I joke about MOS being a mess based on fear of what Snyder's done before, but I'm still seeing it opening day--- and most likely a few times even if it's horrible, so I'm already giving it genuine support even if sucks, so what more could WB want? Look at it this way: MOS may well have a million sequels. SR never will even have one, so I think those who love SR can be allowed a few sour grapes/attitude, no? At the end of the day, movies are going to be all about what someone likes/dislikes. Arguing that one person is right over the other because of this or that can never end well--- because it's ultimately about how a person feels about it, regardless of how many 'rational' arguments can be made both ways. I have to admit, though, if they said that Bryan Singer was allowed to do the reboot (or Zemeckis or someone who I felt very comfortable at the helm), I'd give them a LOT more lattitude in verbal snarkiness prior to the movie. And..... if the movie is amazing to me, I'll make a bigarse apology to Snyder and company and its fans here. As Otis says: "What more could anyone want?"  |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Apr 9, 2012 6:15:10 GMT -5
Maybe if Snyder hadn't made some asstard stupid mistakes with Watchmen I might have more faith in him. Just be glad he didn't make the Sam Hamm penned screenplay. Kam, funny you should say that, of all the Watchmen screenplays, Sam's is the one I would have preferred! |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 9, 2012 7:28:46 GMT -5
Maybe if Snyder hadn't made some asstard stupid mistakes with Watchmen I might have more faith in him. Just be glad he didn't make the Sam Hamm penned screenplay. Is that the one Terry Gilliam was going to direct? I know there were some awful ideas and scripts for Watchmen floating around out there. One wanted to make them more of a superhero team. Joel Silver wanted Arnold as Dr Manhattan (almost as bad as wanting Arnold for Sgt. Rock...ugh). Gilliam wanted changes but it was never story changes that bothered me (if they made sense). I was fine with the change in the ending to Snyders movie...his change just didn't work that well either. Stylistically his Watchemen movie was pretty damn awful sometimes. So lazy and cliche. Other times it looked pretty damn good. At least with Gilliam....I mean the mans made some fantastic films. He's got some real talent as a director. |
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Apr 9, 2012 7:40:39 GMT -5
When I watch SR I skip the chapters towards the end; Lois and Richard in the DP musing over visiting Superman in Hospital, Lex and Kitty marooned, Superman's ''Father/Son'' speech and 'Why The World Needs Superman'.
So Superman crash lands and is taken to hospital, he flat lines, DP headlines... Lois and Jason pay him a visit and leave, crowds outside. The nurse raises the alarm and looks out of the window. Lois goes for a smoke outside of her home, Superman is always around and end.
Had Superman of died after that piece of Kryptonite was removed, he flat-lined and showing the crowds outside of hospital. Lois and Jason visiting him and then cut to Richard and Perry looking over the headline: Superman is Dead.
Ends the Donnerverse and sorts that out for a reboot!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 9, 2012 9:08:04 GMT -5
I remember a friend mentioning watching Letterman with Gilliam on,and wearing a Watchmen pin. Oddly, Letterman I don't think mentioned a word about the pin (nor Letterman), but Watchmen fans got it. You hear about so many false rumors that it was exciting to realize that it was almost made by Gilliam.
The funny thing is, Gilliam's films can be part hallucinogenic, part drama, part farce---- and yet, amazingly, have it all work, be intelligent, and have heart but be disturbing at the same time. I think Gilliam is the ONLY filmmaker that Moore has openly praised to be doing Watchmen.
Having Paul Greengrass would have been interesting, too--- but Gilliams' films are generally so amazing that it's truly a loss we never were able to see his version of Watchmen.
Sadly, only Snyder had the clout, it seems, to get such a (relatively to the mainstream public at the time) obscure comic property to the screen just the way he wanted......but it's a total bummer that it looks right, but contentwise too many elements of it weren't done right.
Perhaps if Snyder produced it and handed it over to Gilliam to direct....*sigh*
Oh well....
If there was a reboot, I'd favor it be Gilliams' or Greengrasses' Watchmen. I'd cheer for that.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 9, 2012 9:13:20 GMT -5
If WB upfront told Singer that it would definitely be ONE film and one film only for him to direct and wrap thing up as a 'one' film only--- I wouldn't have minded Supes dying at the end, saving Metropolis (perhaps blending in the 'Death of Superman' story). As is, the painful part has always been how much has been (and will always be) unresolved in the storyline. Pity that neither he nor the screenwriters feel driven enough to conclude it in the comics.... something that would cost next to nothing, relative to film...  |
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Post by Kamdan on Apr 9, 2012 10:29:06 GMT -5
The Wiki page listed below details the script pretty good. It’s no wonder Alan Moore held such animosity towards Hollywood when he received this script, although it would have been interesting as a stand alone story without comparing it to the comics. It would have been interesting to have seen Gilliam’s vision, as he seems to have had it rewriten to be closer to the comic, but I don’t think he had enough interest to do it when it was ultimately made. He even attributed his laziness as the reason he didn't make Roger Rabbit and regretted it. I attribute Snyder for wanting it to be close to the original source material, because before he came along, there were attempts at trying to modernized the story. I’m glad with the final film we got and it’s a big accomplishment in my mind’s eye if someone can film what was deemed back then as unfilmable. I enjoyed it a lot more than V for Vendetta, which really altered the story to make it more commercial and at no point did you ever see Rorschach in an apron making breakfast. TOTAL mood killer. watchmen.wikia.com/wiki/Watchmen_(unused_Sam_Hamm_script)Greengrasses' Watchmen was no better off with the modernization, along with giving Silk Spectre (renamed Slingshot) the ability to sling balls of energy and Ozymandias getting impaled. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 9, 2012 16:15:23 GMT -5
Where did you get this info? My enthusiasm with him comes from the interview bit with Watchmen mentioning the tone he was going to take, but no specifics (and his Bourne films) as a measuring rod.... but if he changed it that much (for no reason), I may retract my earlier statements with Greengrass....
(Is there a script available?)
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Post by Valentine Smith on Apr 9, 2012 16:59:56 GMT -5
CAM, I've got that script somewhere. If I find it, I'll PM you. It isn't very good. It's pretty heavy-handed, much like Snyder's film, and relies too heavily on voice-overs narration to explain stuff. It's bad.
Hamm's script, while it had a new opening and a strange ending, managed to avoid constantly TELLING THE AUDIENCE WHAT WAS GOING ON, something which the Snyder film is seriously guilty of.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 9, 2012 17:45:51 GMT -5
I think Gilliam said Watchmen was basically unfilmable. Snyder tried but Gilliam may have been right. years ago someone said the only way it could possibly be done was as a mini series. I do wonder how that could have turned out.
I think Snyder was going for a more comic booky visual style but I would have liked to have seen someone like Aronofksy do watchmen as a grimier 1980's style film.
Snyder's gimmicks during the opening with the Comedian almost ruined that whole scene for me.
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Post by Kamdan on Apr 10, 2012 1:12:09 GMT -5
I believe it was David Hayter who wrote the screenplay when Greengrass was onboard. Some of the elements of his script, including the altered ending, originated in this script.
Really? I never really got that impression from Snyder’s film.
Yeah, there wouldn’t have been so much a need to delete material, but I guess the compensation was doing the motion comics, but it was done with only one male voice actor instead of a whole cast. It also displayed how the comic couldn’t be directly translated to screen, as the comic served its medium.
I was quite pleased with the look of the film, as it had a similar color palette to the comics within the confines of film. I didn’t mind the alterations to the costumes either. The look of the film was actually what I wanted to see done to the X-Men films, but Bryan Singer didn’t want that type of look, although Matthew Vaughn came pretty close to the look in X-Men: First Class
Could you elaborate?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 2:41:31 GMT -5
The speed ramping.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 10, 2012 5:23:46 GMT -5
To me, that was just the beginning of a lot of the major problems with Snyder's adaptation. I went back to the original comics just to see where/why things went wrong, and it's sad/odd how some seemingly minor changes actually ended up being fairly significant in how the story never quite is believable on the screen (with the exception of the Dr. Manhattan solo monologue backstory and parts of Rorschach/Dan bits)...
It's one thing to take something that's not so great to begin with, and make mistakes. It's another to take something that's pretty brilliant and screw it up by altering it or executing it just badly enough that the whole excercise looks perfect on the surface, but just underneath becomes a total disaster.
((*Aside: Visually, it's fantastic, though. It LOOKS like an expensive film.I'll give Snyder that. He knows how to take a pretty picture.))
Thus, my inclination to have a bad feeling about the reboot. If you told me Jonathan Nolan was directing it, or a director whose work I was unfamiliar with doing it, or even if it had Routh in it, or no Routh and Singer rebooting it, I'd feel like there was going to be more of a feeling of hope and anticipation.
As is, everytime I'm reminded of Snyder's Watchmen and (far far worse) his "Sucker Punch", I can only think that unless Nolan is REALLY in quality control at the end--- the odds are against this being very good.
I think every good director is allowed a failure, but so far two out of the three films I've seen by Snyder were pretty horrible. If "Day of the Dead" is as good as people say, then it's two out of four. Not the most comforting of odds....
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Apr 10, 2012 7:22:52 GMT -5
eh...I like Snyder's Watchmen. To each his own.
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Post by Kamdan on Apr 10, 2012 7:26:56 GMT -5
Actually, he did a remake of Dawn of the Dead.
I understand why a lot of people don't like Sucker Punch, but some, including the reviewer of my college paper, didn't quite understand that the events were occurring in someone's mind. Also, it seemed to me that the film was an attempt at doing a live action anime, which seemed more notable than previous attempts like Speed Racer and Dragonball Evolution.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Apr 10, 2012 7:32:42 GMT -5
Gilliam: "Watchmen is unfilmable".
Me: "Snyder's Watchmen is unwatchable."
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 10, 2012 12:04:26 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D
I actually think that Snyder's film showed it COULD have been condensed to one long film.... but some of the casting and enough of the writing situations changed it too much to work correctly as in the book. (the subplot with the mother/daughter Silk Spectres in the book is really moving... in the film, laughable)
An HBO series would have been far better- like how they're doing "Game of Thrones" that takes its time and doesn't feel a need to explain everything up front, so that that world is more natural (and credible).
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 10, 2012 12:16:14 GMT -5
I got that it was in someone's mind--- but it's definitely NOT 'Inception' by any means. If it was going to be a mindless action piece, I'd find it far more tolerable. But when there are so many dramatic scenes that are supposed to be heartfelt, but come off as a bad soap opera set in the Playboy channel universe- just found it painful to watch. With a movie like "Heavy Metal", there's no delusion of the importance of the film, nor any real heart (well, except for the ending, which is a little weird)... with Sucker Punch, it's like Snyder wanted it both ways- action and moving drama to make you cry for half-dressed models from Victoria's Secret dressed like underage students.  I liked the action bits.... but this is one case where I wish it was edited by Michael Thau.... at least it would be incomprehensible and interesting, and I could pretend that maybe there's a good movie there that's on the cutting room floor, rather than having to sit through the whole bad experience and know the truth (imo). Thus, my hesitation at thinking this is the guy who should direct a good Superman movie. (If Lois has a dream sequence in a halter top and a machine gun, don't be too suprised)  |
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Post by Kamdan on Apr 10, 2012 12:57:00 GMT -5
Haha! That is a good way to put it, but I didn't mind the acting at all. It could have been a lot worse with real bimbos in the parts. The only cool parts of Inception was where the environments would do wacky things. Everything else just felt like a lame heist film, which bored me to tears. I was hoping it would be as mind challenging as the first Matrix film while being exciting, but it really wasn't.
The scantily dressed girls are staples of anime, which is what I think they used to emulate that type of style. I'm not a fan or defender of it, but it was pretty recognizable to me.
I believe Snyder state that a lot of his usual film techniques aren't going to be utilized. It seems that Nolan has him on a really short leash.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 12, 2012 10:37:22 GMT -5
Actually, he did a remake of Dawn of the Dead. I understand why a lot of people don't like Sucker Punch, but some, including the reviewer of my college paper, didn't quite understand that the events were occurring in someone's mind. Also, it seemed to me that the film was an attempt at doing a live action anime, which seemed more notable than previous attempts like Speed Racer and Dragonball Evolution. Dawn of The Dead is arguably Snyders best film. The only other thing he's done that comes close IMO is 300 but 300 is more over the top while DOTD is a little more grounded. Dawn 2004 starts brilliantly but then it just de evolves into just another action/horror movie. They had an opportunity to do some really interesting things but it loses all the layering of George Romero's original as it continues. Snyder also hadn't started relying on his visual crutches so much. Its also a lot better than the Day of The Dead remake. |
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Post by stargazer01 on Apr 12, 2012 12:31:18 GMT -5
So.. I agree with those who think Parker Posey should have been Lois. How come Singer didn't see it?!? She had it all! Oh well.
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