atp
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Post by atp on Dec 26, 2013 6:11:33 GMT -5
This is probably a good time to ask... who are the reeve only people?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 13:18:07 GMT -5
Metallo, Jor- knock it off. I appreciate Turd Ferguson references and "sewage pipe mouth" burns as much as the next guy, but you're personally ripping each other over something that's only tangentially related to the main topic. Boo.
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Post by EnriqueH on Dec 26, 2013 17:16:43 GMT -5
Can we just go back to the part where we're ripping the Reeve Only People MOS?
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Dec 27, 2013 13:05:04 GMT -5
Can we just go back to the part where we're ripping the Reeve Only People MOS? sounds good! but save some strength for the MoS2 thread! remember enrique- if you havent got your health, you havent got anything.  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Dec 27, 2013 13:13:37 GMT -5
god bless you metallo!  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 26, 2014 21:25:44 GMT -5
FACT: SR and MOS are just movies... and that's it. OPINION: Worth arguing over and belittling one another's opinions? Each person decides for themselves....  MY OPINION: I learned how everyone feels about the film already. I shared mine. I don't care anymore if anyone believes it or not. It's just too exciting for me around here. Need to retire to the old folks home and take a nap. Have fun, folks.... It's hard to put it to you without sounding disrespectful so sorry. Should have maybe just kept it to myself. You're a good poster all the same (Just saw this today- been gone awhile) Kris, I admit I was a bit miffed at the time- but it's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. All good. Appreciate the post, though. Thanx! |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 23, 2014 14:08:46 GMT -5
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 23, 2014 16:18:18 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 2, 2014 3:06:04 GMT -5
I actually think MOS tried to get people excited about Superman- but in looking at the new 52/whatnot, I don't know where the 'classic' Superman as I recognized him exists anymore, outside of reprint collections.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 2, 2014 13:16:04 GMT -5
New 52 blows. It may have actually pissed on the character worse than MOS did. DC tried way too hard to do what Marvels Ultimate Line did. Jim Lee Is stuck in 1995. Some of the costumes look like Wildcats rejects. It's one place where the Ultimate line kicks the shit out of them again. The newer outfits look "modern" instead of Lees outdated ideas. Cyborg looks like a member of Youngblood.
If the movie makers have any sense they will at least try to pull from several eras and incarnations the way Marvels films have instead of using new 52 as a base. JL War didn't even work as well as Ultimate Avengers for that very reason.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 2, 2014 23:28:28 GMT -5
New 52 blows. It may have actually pissed on the character worse than MOS did. DC tried way too hard to do what Marvels Ultimate Line did. Jim Lee Is stuck in 1995. Some of the costumes look like Wildcats rejects. It's one place where the Ultimate line kicks the shit out of them again. The newer outfits look "modern" instead of Lees outdated ideas. Cyborg looks like a member of Youngblood. If the movie makers have any sense they will at least try to pull from several eras and incarnations the way Marvels films have instead of using new 52 as a base. JL War didn't even work as well as Ultimate Avengers for that very reason. Jim Lee I hear is a great guy in person to fans, but creatively- I don't think he's done anything to make him seem like he should have been THE guy to redesign the DC costumes. I'm still groaning over Jim Lee's black leather jacket design for Wonder Woman. Again, I agree with you- Just saw Captain America again & (despite being underwhelmed by Red Skull) was otherwise in awe at just how incredibly well Marvel incorporated just about EVERY incarnation of Captain America (or put a nod to it). Suprisingly, I thought that Raimi's Spiderman and Singer's X-men also (for the most part) borrow the best from the ages. Hopefully more filmmakers that adapt superhero material will follow that plan, too.... but I don't hold out much hope for the DC characters if everything is going be branched out under Goyer's supervision.  |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 3, 2014 23:29:36 GMT -5
Yeah Marvels characters feel like MARVELS characters on screen. They bring what's in the books and what fans love to the screen. The Avengers are the avengers we grew up loving in various takes on the comics. With DC it feels like they're taking the books in name only and doing change for the sake of it. The hype over depth. Style over substance. The casting proves that. Marvels casting choices seem far more interesting and intelligent. Not star driven or trend driven but talent driven. Spaders name on a poster isn't going to put as many asses in seats but it is going to make for a more interesting film. Marvel has more trust in its characters to sell themselves than WB/DC's.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 4, 2014 2:43:17 GMT -5
Yeah Marvels characters feel like MARVELS characters on screen. They bring what's in the books and what fans love to the screen. The Avengers are the avengers we grew up loving in various takes on the comics. With DC it feels like they're taking the books in name only and doing change for the sake of it. The hype over depth. Style over substance. The casting proves that. Marvels casting choices seem far more interesting and intelligent. Not star driven or trend driven but talent driven. Spaders name on a poster isn't going to put as many asses in seats but it is going to make for a more interesting film. Marvel has more trust in its characters to sell themselves than WB/DC's. The thing that confuses me about WB's decisions is that- while WB has made some crazy decisions and/or seems to have a default position of keeping things in limbo forever..... I can't deny that WB also was responsible for getting out of the way (it seems) for Batman Begins, Dark Knight, and Superman Returns- three movies that I mostly love. So- is it WB or Goyer that's derailing things (imo) for adapting superhero properties? Or a bit of both? (*On a related note, I'm actually not thrilled with "Arrow" on tv either, though fans seem to really enjoy what's being done with dc characters there, too.) I'm not really sure anymore, but it's really clear to me that the time I loved comics, Marvel studios seems to want to cater to my time as a comics fan as well as reach out for the current one- and I'm thrilled with that. ((Having said that, I am scratching my head over Phase 3 of Marvel movies- I'm cautiously excited over a Dr. Strange movie, but was never a giant fan of 'Ant-man' or 'Guardians of the Galaxy'--- why not Captain Marvel or Nova?)) |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 12, 2014 13:01:31 GMT -5
"Dick Donner was a filmmaker. You knew it from films like the Omen and other films he had done. He knew that the heart of storytelling was to invest yourself in the characters and the narrative and he never took his eye off of that. He never let the 'frosting' of the sets and the design and the special effects overwhelm the story and that's what he kept center stage. And that's why it was successful. If it was the other way around it might have been a good trailer but it wouldn't have been a good movie". - Producer Peter Guber discussing the making of Superman The Movie in the documentary "You Will Believe: The Cinematic Saga of Superman." Explains a lot don't it?
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Post by atp on Mar 12, 2014 13:17:03 GMT -5
"Dick Donner was a filmmaker. You knew it from films like the Omen and other films he had done. He knew that the heart of storytelling was to invest yourself in the characters and the narrative and he never took his eye off of that. He never let the 'frosting' of the sets and the design and the special effects overwhelm the story and that's what he kept center stage. And that's why it was successful. If it was the other way around it might have been a good trailer but it wouldn't have been a good movie". - Producer Peter Guber discussing the making of Superman The Movie in the documentary "You Will Believe: The Cinematic Saga of Superman." Explains a lot don't it? Yes. Good trailer but not good movie -- sums up MoS perfectly. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 14, 2014 11:47:42 GMT -5
"Dick Donner was a filmmaker. You knew it from films like the Omen and other films he had done. He knew that the heart of storytelling was to invest yourself in the characters and the narrative and he never took his eye off of that. He never let the 'frosting' of the sets and the design and the special effects overwhelm the story and that's what he kept center stage. And that's why it was successful. If it was the other way around it might have been a good trailer but it wouldn't have been a good movie". - Producer Peter Guber discussing the making of Superman The Movie in the documentary "You Will Believe: The Cinematic Saga of Superman." Explains a lot don't it? Yes. Good trailer but not good movie -- sums up MoS perfectly. Great trailer.... but I still think it's just more incompetence than maliciousness for the movie. It's in between Sucker Punch (which was horrible outside of the visuals) and Watchmen (which had great parts, but kinda missed the point of the story). At the same time... I think it's odd that (to me) Superman as a movie series seems constantly kind of cursed. You have STM- then the debacle with SII with Donner's firing & the schizo second half.... (though I'm still grateful for the Donner footage at least out there) Then SIII- that's plagued by Richard Lester directing a silly script for SIII- (*I guess it works on its own terms, but its terms have Superman splitting a bad comedy with Richard Pyror's character) Then SIV- that has an ok script (at least the version I read and at least in comparison to SIII) - that gets butchered by a slashed budget and some actors a little too old at this point- and editing that makes it incomprehensible. Then SR- not without its flaws, but to me, the best one since STM as an update and tricky to do. Takes Superman in a role never really done before in movies, tv, or comics (Having a kid without it being an imaginary story).... was fascinated how they could continue it with the kid without going wrong. Then MOS- good parts, some fresh ideas, but much of the time, it feels like it threw TOO much out the window just to appeal to a cynical demographic... but mostly it treats Superman like a modern horror story- disturbing images (devastated cityscapes) that I personally felt more comfortable with in the Dark Knight. |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 14, 2014 11:59:41 GMT -5
Oh yeah I think it's mostly incompetence except for Goyer. MOS was made for the ADD generation and it shows. Funny since Snyder is a near fifty year old man trying to think cool. It's a movie that thinks it's being smart but missed the whole point.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 14, 2014 12:19:18 GMT -5
Oh yeah I think it's mostly incompetence except for Goyer. MOS was made for the ADD generation and it shows. Funny since Snyder is a near fifty year old man trying to think cool. It's a movie that thinks it's being smart but missed the whole point. I wish I could find a link on youtube for Goyer's one on one interview (it was for Batman Begins) where he openly says that he's the wrong fit for Superman, because he's about hope, and Goyer was about angst. Goyer at the time was doing fine (unlike Lester), and I do think Goyer has respect for comics, but I think he's convinced himself with MOS that he found the 'right' way to get into the character. (I don't agree at all with Goyer's assessment, but MOS I've resolved is like 'Red Krypton' imo- an alternate nightmare version of the Superman story) Snyder I forgive to a degree because he got a Watchmen made (flaws and all) when it looked like it was never going to be made, period, if he didn't use his '300' clout for it. The attention to visual details wasn't necessary - you may laugh, but I do think he does have artistic integrity- but in the same way that George Lucas had with the Star Wars prequels. With Lester on Superman, I don't think he gave a damn. With Snyder, I really think those guys are misguided, based on good intents with Watchmen and great work by Goyer on Batman Begins/Dark Knight. I could be totally wrong, but that's why I have less animosity towards Snyder/Goyer but still have the annoyance with Lester. |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 15, 2014 9:41:11 GMT -5
To me Lester was just a guy doing a job. Snyder is too but he's less competent. Goyer looks down his nose at Superman is trying to whore these characters out now that he has a change. Make as much money as he can off them now that he has an opportunity and make off like a bandit. That's why he's trying to get his hand into as many DC characters as possible.
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Post by atp on Mar 15, 2014 10:45:33 GMT -5
To me Lester was just a guy doing a job. Snyder is too but he's less competent. I'm not a fan of Lester's silly comedic stuff, but he was definitely competent. He understood drama very well, and I think he got better performances out of Reeve and Kidder in some places than even Donner did. If he had not indulged in the comical nonsense, S2 and even S3 would have been really good movies. |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 15, 2014 11:00:18 GMT -5
To me the good parts of II and III directed by Lester are outstanding. Better than anything in MOS. Lester showed some talent for directing actors even of he wasn't as good at is Donner. I swear Snyder is like a LESSER Lucas in that department. Even going back to their music related collaborations Lester broke a lot more ground than Snyder so yes Lester was certainly competent. He never seemed to get led astray by special effects spectacle the way Snyder did.
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Post by stargazer0118 on Mar 15, 2014 12:09:20 GMT -5
Oh yeah I think it's mostly incompetence except for Goyer. MOS was made for the ADD generation and it shows. Funny since Snyder is a near fifty year old man trying to think cool. It's a movie that thinks it's being smart but missed the whole point. I wish I could find a link on youtube for Goyer's one on one interview (it was for Batman Begins) where he openly says that he's the wrong fit for Superman, because he's about hope, and Goyer was about angst. Goyer at the time was doing fine (unlike Lester), and I do think Goyer has respect for comics, but I think he's convinced himself with MOS that he found the 'right' way to get into the character. (I don't agree at all with Goyer's assessment, but MOS I've resolved is like 'Red Krypton' imo- an alternate nightmare version of the Superman story) I clearly remember both Goyer and Snyder admitting that they were wrong fit for Superman..... but I guess $$$ talks. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 15, 2014 21:26:52 GMT -5
To me Lester was just a guy doing a job. Snyder is too but he's less competent. I'm not a fan of Lester's silly comedic stuff, but he was definitely competent. He understood drama very well, and I think he got better performances out of Reeve and Kidder in some places than even Donner did. If he had not indulged in the comical nonsense, S2 and even S3 would have been really good movies. I think the better performances were more of Reeve and Kidder having had a chance to take a break, see the film, and feel more experienced in their roles, than anything Lester did. I remember Marc McClure making comments that Lester kind of treated them like moving pieces on SII- Stamp was more diplomatic and said that he understood Lester was there to do a tough job- replacing a boss that everyone loved. I probably would have been/be more forgiving of Lester, if Lester acted more like someone who was going to finish the vision of S2 as scripted initially. (Recasting Brando I would have been fine with, if all else remained the same as the Mank script outside of time reversal). As is..... I love Lester's 3 Musketeers movie, his Hard Day's Night I get was groundbreaking for the time, but other than that...... wish another director was chosen to finish SII, there were other options.... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 15, 2014 23:32:23 GMT -5
To me the good parts of II and III directed by Lester are outstanding. Better than anything in MOS. Lester showed some talent for directing actors even of he wasn't as good at is Donner. I swear Snyder is like a LESSER Lucas in that department. Even going back to their music related collaborations Lester broke a lot more ground than Snyder so yes Lester was certainly competent. He never seemed to get led astray by special effects spectacle the way Snyder did. Outside of the Three Musketeers, I haven't been that impressed by Lester's work. I do like some bits that Lester did in SII- and I do like parts of MOS- but neither director is all that imo. Oddly, I'm still hoping Snyder suprises us all and delivers a great sequel. No profit in wishing Snyder never improves.... |
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Post by booshman on Mar 25, 2014 4:11:22 GMT -5
 Pretty cool behind the scenes image. I know a lot of people wanted to see this when it was mentioned Cavil had a audition in this costume. |
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