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Post by atp on Apr 22, 2016 6:30:49 GMT -5
A wasted opportunity in MoS was that wholw battle against the world engine in the indian ocean.
Instead, superman should have escorted the air force planes to metropolis and helped to protect the bomber plane. He could have also broken away to save people in metropolis.
That would have built so much goodwill towards him.
Fighting that machine in the indian ocean was just an excuse for fancy cgi and explosions. It looked over the top. And even worse, no other people were there to see it, so nobody cared about what he did.
On the other hand, if people saw him helping the military and saving civilians in metropolis, that would have helped make him the hero superman that we know.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 22, 2016 8:13:24 GMT -5
Agreed.
I think that bit where he saves one soldier in Smallville personally was supposed to be where he is looked at as a hero.... But it wasn't enough to offset all the collateral damage he caused/causes in Smallville.
I wonder what goes through Snyder's head with the non-stop string of negative press for so many of his films?
I guess it's good to ignore critics if you're trying your best and have a job to do....
On the other hand..... Are there no talented people out there he can trust to give him good advice on his gaffes in film?
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Post by atp on Apr 22, 2016 8:54:00 GMT -5
How awesome would it have been to have Superman leading a convoy of air force planes?
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Post by Metallo on Apr 22, 2016 11:12:12 GMT -5
Would have been amazing to see. They even could have introed Hal Jordan into their universe that way. It's too bad we don't have some guy in charge who could think things like that through before they made the movie. Some kind of...I dunno...wriiiii-ter. Or that other job. Di rek tor? I also wonder...why wasn't there more activity around the wreckage of the world engine in BvS? If there was a giant machine that could literally turn one kind of planet into another don't you guys think people would be studying the wreckage and surrounding area for decades? I guess not. It's not like someone was studying that smashed terminator arm in T2 even if it didn't work. Nope.
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Post by atp on Apr 22, 2016 11:28:18 GMT -5
Would have been amazing to see. They even could have introed Hal Jordan into their universe that way. It's too bad we don't have some guy in charge who could think things like that through before they made the movie. Some kind of...I dunno...wriiiii-ter. Or that other job. Di rek tor? I also wonder...why wasn't there more activity around the wreckage of the world engine in BvS? If there was a giant machine that could literally turn one kind of planet into another don't you guys think people would be studying the wreckage and surrounding area for decades? I guess not. It's not like someone was studying that smashed terminator arm in T2 even if it didn't work. Nope. Interesting that Miles Dyson created metallo
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 22, 2016 11:37:44 GMT -5
on Smallville he created Metallo? In BvS he creates Cyborg I guess Snyder thought it would be "cool" I like Morton so I enjoyed the reference.
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Post by atp on Apr 27, 2016 5:08:43 GMT -5
How did Clark get the military to retrieve the ship he arrived in, without having them discover his address and identity?
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Post by Metallo on Aug 28, 2017 8:05:54 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 28, 2017 13:41:48 GMT -5
Interesting stuff-
In seeing the visuals from this vid from MOS again, though, it reminded me of how visually 'meh' Avengrs was.... but humanity-wise, Whedon constantly added touches of humor and characterization when/where possible. On the flip side, I will have to tip my hate to Snyder for his visuals-
So, it does make the upcoming JL movie an interesting thing to anticipate, once again.
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Post by Metallo on Aug 28, 2017 16:15:10 GMT -5
The first Avengers is very tv movieish in the way it's shot but Whedon isn't afraid of color which was appreciated.
Snyders films are very cinematic (appreciated) but are overly filtered and desaturated. It's like the sun in his D.C. world has a piss yellow filter over it.
I prefer whedons use of more prcatical stuff. I still don't get why Zods armor was totally cgi when the iron man armor is even partially practical.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 31, 2017 11:16:58 GMT -5
The first Avengers is very tv movieish in the way it's shot but Whedon isn't afraid of color which was appreciated. Snyders films are very cinematic (appreciated) but are overly filtered and desaturated. It's like the sun in his D.C. world has a piss yellow filter over it. I prefer whedons use of more prcatical stuff. I still don't get why Zods armor was totally cgi when the iron man armor is even partially practical. I agree... Whedon's capabilities as a fast screenwriter and director -AND being a genuine comic fan made him 'the ONLY choice' for the first Avengers, particularly in how fast it had to be rewritten and put together. With Avengers 2, visually it's more dynamic and it feels a bit more cinematic, as he had more time- but on the commentary, Whedon himself talks about how he generally shoots 'only what he needs to', and actually berated himself for taking too long on one of the more interesting shots in Avengers. In an ideal world, Whedon in charge of scriptwriting and rewrites, perhaps directors like the Rousso brothers directing. So, Again.... will be REALLY interesting to see if we get a mediocre mess in JL or the best of both worlds - great script and visuals- with JL.
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Post by Metallo on Aug 31, 2017 16:50:31 GMT -5
I agree that Age of Ultron was a better looking film. It's got more style and better use of the format. The first one worked because Whedon pulled off what fanboys said couldn't be done. He juggled multiple characters in a team up movie. Marvel studios deserved credit for pulling off what people said couldn't be done in a multi film buildup. Like you said his strength is character work and ensembles. He even worked on the script for the first X-men movie. They used almost non of his material but it's obvious why they hired him.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 1, 2017 9:35:03 GMT -5
I agree that Age of Ultron was a better looking film. It's got more style and better use of the format. The first one worked because Whedon pulled off what fanboys said couldn't be done. He juggled multiple characters in a team up movie. Marvel studios deserved credit for pulling off what people said couldn't be done in a multi film buildup. Like you said his strength is character work and ensembles. He even worked on the script for the first X-men movie. They used almost non of his material but it's obvious why they hired him. Oddly, I always found the attack of the alien creatures in Avengers 1 to feel very tv movie like- maybe the one-liners softened it up too much, versus the (imo) more effective last act of Avengers 2- (though I would have liked it if Tony had faced more conflict from within the team for unleashing Ultron than that 1/2 second where Thor takes him by the throat). There was one VERY intense deleted scene where Cap stops an alien creature from attacking a station wagon family, that I think REALLY would have added more of a feeling of threat and danger to the whole sequence. On another note, would love to see the Whedon script for X-men one day.... (As well as his Batman script).... hopefully it gets released. After seeing a video of how X3's script was adapted, I'm very, very scared at how the "Dark Phoenix" film will turn out. Have a feeling it'll be the film that gets the X-men property returned to Marvel Studios.
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Post by Metallo on Sept 1, 2017 12:20:30 GMT -5
Me too. Kinberg seems to either not get it or fox is pinching pennies and he's having to downsize the scale of it all. Making the Phoenix a split personality tied to Jeans mutation misses the entire point of what the entity is. Setting most of the story on earth instead of much of it in space wastes the whole thing and makes the same mistakes movies like green lantern, motu, and to a lesser extent Thor made.
It's a mistake to do Dark Phoenix now because they haven't built to it properly. I'd be like Marvel doing Infinity War if the Thor and GOTG movies didn't exist. Now fox wants to "ground" it and leave out most of the cosmic elements. Worst of all we don't even know this Jean grey and these new younger Xmen yet. Scott and Jeans love story was a major part of Dark Phoenix saga and that hasn't even been estwbleshed yet.
Both Avengers movies and even Justice League all have the same problem of making the army of bad guys they face faceless disposable Cannon fodder that they can all destroy without responsibility or remorse while keeping the film PG 13. Lots of big movies are doing this now. It's pretty lazy. They can mow down dozens of these facelsss bad guys in cgi sploogefests with no work out into thInking about it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 2, 2017 2:13:13 GMT -5
Me too. Kinberg seems to either not get it or fox is pinching pennies and he's having to downsize the scale of it all. Making the Phoenix a split personality tied to Jeans mutation misses the entire point of what the entity is. Setting most of the story on earth instead of much of it in space wastes the whole thing and makes the same mistakes movies like green lantern, motu, and to a lesser extent Thor made. It's a mistake to do Dark Phoenix now because they haven't built to it properly. I'd be like Marvel doing Infinity War if the Thor and GOTG movies didn't exist. Now fox wants to "ground" it and leave out most of the cosmic elements. Worst of all we don't even know this Jean grey and these new younger Xmen yet. Scott and Jeans love story was a major part of Dark Phoenix saga and that hasn't even been estwbleshed yet. Both Avengers movies and even Justice League all have the same problem of making the army of bad guys they face faceless disposable Cannon fodder that they can all destroy without responsibility or remorse while keeping the film PG 13. Lots of big movies are doing this now. It's pretty lazy. They can mow down dozens of these facelsss bad guys in cgi sploogefests with no work out into thInking about it. Agreed.... choosing the Dark Phoenix story feels like a misguided 'grab' for what the studios think the fans want to see right away- without a script that supports the context of why those characters and stories were so powerful in the comics to begin with. They made that mistake with Venom in Spiderman 3, They made that mistake with using Doomsday in BvS, It was a bit of a mistake with Black Widow in Iron Man 2, (though they've come out on top with Marvel's long game with BW) If Kinberg is promising a cheap X-men, and the studio feels like they can 'guide' him..... what a disaster in the making. But then again- Fox has renegotiated Jennifer Lawrence's, Macavoy's, and Fassbender's contracts... so it can't be THAT cheap, one would think.' Hard to see another scaled down Dark Phoenix story working.... and it's hard to see a giant epic being allowed that would work all in one film, too. Still.... I've said it before, even if it turns out to be a "Superman IV" situation..... I'm glad that we'll be able to see the cast one last time as the characters, if this is the last time.
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Post by Metallo on Sept 2, 2017 7:02:10 GMT -5
Most of the budget is probably going to pay those actors. Lawrence doesn't come cheap and unless she took a pay cut she's not worth it. She's not bringing people to the theater to see these movies. Apocalypses abysmal US box office is proof of that.
I didn't mind black widow in iron man 2. She made a lot of her earliest appearances in iron man comics. I felt the movie just didn't use the character that well. She represented the big problem of the film.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 4, 2017 20:12:17 GMT -5
Most of the budget is probably going to pay those actors. Lawrence doesn't come cheap and unless she took a pay cut she's not worth it. She's not bringing people to the theater to see these movies. Apocalypses abysmal US box office is proof of that. I didn't mind black widow in iron man 2. She made a lot of her earliest appearances in iron man comics. I felt the movie just didn't use the character that well. She represented the big problem of the film. I'd love to be a fly on the wall on the decision making for X-men: Dark Phoenix.... While I applaud 20th Century for not rebooting completely at this point- the choice of doing Dark Phoenix so soon seems extremely foolish, and I do wonder if J.Law's threat that all three actors either work together or nobody's in is/was a reality and influenced things at all.... I don't have high hopes at all for the next X-men movie after seeing how the heart of the movie was so gutted in Apocalypse- it had a fine setup, I thought, with Magneto--- but the middle and last act just needed more character scenes for us to care, and it just wasn't paid enough attention to. (The mall scene would have helped, but it needed far more). Killing off Mystique and/or Quicksilver might have given the movie more of a purpose by the end, but it felt too much like Fox trying to have their cake with all the characters and trying to eat it , too. As a result, the movie has a good buildup for a few characters with insubstantial payoffs- to me, that's what killed the movie the most.
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Post by Metallo on Sept 5, 2017 6:30:35 GMT -5
You might be on rob something with the three of them together to get another big payday. These movies don't NEED Mystique and really don't need magneto. They need Xavier. I think focusing on the same handful of characters over and over for 17 years has hurt this franchise.
Occasionally a new character comes in and gets some development like Nightcrawler but most of them suffer from lack of screen time at the expense of Mystique and magneto. How funny is it that Colossus got better used in a Deadpool movie than he did in any Xmen movie?
I think Fox is trying to keep up with WB/DC and Marvel studios with big epic films while not giving them the proper on screen buildup and budget. Apocalypse tried to be that and failed. DOFP pulled it off but the set up was there and it was something people were game to see. The Phoenix saga? Not so much.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 5, 2017 10:01:51 GMT -5
You might be on rob something with the three of them together to get another big payday. These movies don't NEED Mystique and really don't need magneto. They need Xavier. I think focusing on the same handful of characters over and over for 17 years has hurt this franchise. Occasionally a new character comes in and gets some development like Nightcrawler but most of them suffer from lack of screen time at the expense of Mystique and magneto. How funny is it that Colossus got better used in a Deadpool movie than he did in any Xmen movie? I think Fox is trying to keep up with WB/DC and Marvel studios with big epic films while not giving them the proper on screen buildup and budget. Apocalypse tried to be that and failed. DOFP pulled it off but the set up was there and it was something people were game to see. The Phoenix saga? Not so much. The problem I feel is that they're not really sure (it seems) who's the most important in the X-men series. At first, they built everything around Wolverine. They were fine killing off Cyclops (ridiculous) and tried to kill off Xavier (really???) in X3- the rumor is that was Matthew Vaughn's storyline first- which made zero sense (unless it was an actor wanting more money, but still). Then the Singer prequels- "First Class" was great, with the building of the X-men..... but why kill off so many of the characters in DOFP that weren't Xavier/Magneto/Mystique? ? They just got done selling us on great younger characters- (I guess we should be glad Beast survived). Singer says in his commentary that they could come back, but- why kill them off in the first place? X-men: DOFP was excellent outside of that unnecessary slaughter- and sortof returned the timeline (to a degree) - or at least one of them- And then Apocalypse seemed like it was starting to put Scott Summers and Jean Grey as the main front characters- but I'm not convinced that they're going to really do more with them character-wise if they're killing off Jean in the next one. So.... even with Singer (who does great stuff mainly) was in charge, they're just too fast and loose on who the X-men really are, as if they're playing "game of Thrones" with the core characters. Anyhow, trying to enjoy what's there as much as possible, but they're not making it easy. On the flip side, Marvel tv has been setting new lows with Inhumans (AWFUL!) and Iron Fist, so no matter what, even X3 is better than those adaptations (if comparing).
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Post by Metallo on Sept 5, 2017 12:56:38 GMT -5
You might be on rob something with the three of them together to get another big payday. These movies don't NEED Mystique and really don't need magneto. They need Xavier. I think focusing on the same handful of characters over and over for 17 years has hurt this franchise. Occasionally a new character comes in and gets some development like Nightcrawler but most of them suffer from lack of screen time at the expense of Mystique and magneto. How funny is it that Colossus got better used in a Deadpool movie than he did in any Xmen movie? I think Fox is trying to keep up with WB/DC and Marvel studios with big epic films while not giving them the proper on screen buildup and budget. Apocalypse tried to be that and failed. DOFP pulled it off but the set up was there and it was something people were game to see. The Phoenix saga? Not so much. The problem I feel is that they're not really sure (it seems) who's the most important in the X-men series. At first, they built everything around Wolverine. They were fine killing off Cyclops (ridiculous) and tried to kill off Xavier (really???) in X3- the rumor is that was Matthew Vaughn's storyline first- which made zero sense (unless it was an actor wanting more money, but still). Then the Singer prequels- "First Class" was great, with the building of the X-men..... but why kill off so many of the characters in DOFP that weren't Xavier/Magneto/Mystique? ? They just got done selling us on great younger characters- (I guess we should be glad Beast survived). Singer says in his commentary that they could come back, but- why kill them off in the first place? X-men: DOFP was excellent outside of that unnecessary slaughter- and sortof returned the timeline (to a degree) - or at least one of them- And then Apocalypse seemed like it was starting to put Scott Summers and Jean Grey as the main front characters- but I'm not convinced that they're going to really do more with them character-wise if they're killing off Jean in the next one. So.... even with Singer (who does great stuff mainly) was in charge, they're just too fast and loose on who the X-men really are, as if they're playing "game of Thrones" with the core characters. Anyhow, trying to enjoy what's there as much as possible, but they're not making it easy. On the flip side, Marvel tv has been setting new lows with Inhumans (AWFUL!) and Iron Fist, so no matter what, even X3 is better than those adaptations (if comparing). I've read that Inhumans isn't that great (the trailers and photos look like crap). Iron Fist was dissapointing on a lot of levels. Hard to believe they're worse than X3 as a whole which was a massive turd that was dropped on one of the most iconic X-men stories and ruined/wasted multiple characters at once. The problems with Marvel tv fall on Perlmutter and I guess now Quesada. Joey Q has led Marvel to deliver some truly awful stories over the years. "Diversity Marvel" has been a disaster under both of them. The comics are awful, the animated shows aren't that great and the tv shows are hit and miss. Perlmutter was the one who pushed Inhumans and it was obvious when the movie was dropped from Marvel studios schedule after they split from Marvel Entertainment and stopped answering to Perlmutter. Defenders seemed ok but while Loeb is talented he's working for guys who don't have a clue. I cheered when Avi Arad took a walk and I hope that there's a major housecleaning at the top of Marvel. Fiege is the only one of the execs who has consistently delivered. I can believe Vaughn was one of the people behind the deaths of Xavier and Cyclops in X3. The Fox films never seem to know what to do with either one of them. Xavier is such a powerful character that he'd solve most of the problems in those movies himself. They couldn't figure a way around that so they lazily incapacitated him in Xmen 1 and 2. Cyclops was presented as a second rate character who took a backseat to Logan in all those movies. Biggest reason Storm got so much bigger a part in X3 was because Berry won the Oscar, Singer was gone, and by killing Cyke they freed up the team leadership role. I think Singer killed the characters he did in DOFP for the same reason. They weren't characters he favored (or in the case of Emma Frost not what he would have done) and he also didn't know what to do with them. They didn't fit his story so he used them as motivation for Magneto. Same reason he killed Havok in Xmen Apocalypse. They tied up his role pretty quickly in DOFP as well.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 10, 2017 13:20:59 GMT -5
The problem I feel is that they're not really sure (it seems) who's the most important in the X-men series. At first, they built everything around Wolverine. They were fine killing off Cyclops (ridiculous) and tried to kill off Xavier (really???) in X3- the rumor is that was Matthew Vaughn's storyline first- which made zero sense (unless it was an actor wanting more money, but still). Then the Singer prequels- "First Class" was great, with the building of the X-men..... but why kill off so many of the characters in DOFP that weren't Xavier/Magneto/Mystique? ? They just got done selling us on great younger characters- (I guess we should be glad Beast survived). Singer says in his commentary that they could come back, but- why kill them off in the first place? X-men: DOFP was excellent outside of that unnecessary slaughter- and sortof returned the timeline (to a degree) - or at least one of them- And then Apocalypse seemed like it was starting to put Scott Summers and Jean Grey as the main front characters- but I'm not convinced that they're going to really do more with them character-wise if they're killing off Jean in the next one. So.... even with Singer (who does great stuff mainly) was in charge, they're just too fast and loose on who the X-men really are, as if they're playing "game of Thrones" with the core characters. Anyhow, trying to enjoy what's there as much as possible, but they're not making it easy. On the flip side, Marvel tv has been setting new lows with Inhumans (AWFUL!) and Iron Fist, so no matter what, even X3 is better than those adaptations (if comparing). I've read that Inhumans isn't that great (the trailers and photos look like crap). Iron Fist was dissapointing on a lot of levels. Hard to believe they're worse than X3 as a whole which was a massive turd that was dropped on one of the most iconic X-men stories and ruined/wasted multiple characters at once. The problems with Marvel tv fall on Perlmutter and I guess now Quesada. Joey Q has led Marvel to deliver some truly awful stories over the years. "Diversity Marvel" has been a disaster under both of them. The comics are awful, the animated shows aren't that great and the tv shows are hit and miss. Perlmutter was the one who pushed Inhumans and it was obvious when the movie was dropped from Marvel studios schedule after they split from Marvel Entertainment and stopped answering to Perlmutter. Defenders seemed ok but while Loeb is talented he's working for guys who don't have a clue. I cheered when Avi Arad took a walk and I hope that there's a major housecleaning at the top of Marvel. Fiege is the only one of the execs who has consistently delivered. I can believe Vaughn was one of the people behind the deaths of Xavier and Cyclops in X3. The Fox films never seem to know what to do with either one of them. Xavier is such a powerful character that he'd solve most of the problems in those movies himself. They couldn't figure a way around that so they lazily incapacitated him in Xmen 1 and 2. Cyclops was presented as a second rate character who took a backseat to Logan in all those movies. Biggest reason Storm got so much bigger a part in X3 was because Berry won the Oscar, Singer was gone, and by killing Cyke they freed up the team leadership role. I think Singer killed the characters he did in DOFP for the same reason. They weren't characters he favored (or in the case of Emma Frost not what he would have done) and he also didn't know what to do with them. They didn't fit his story so he used them as motivation for Magneto. Same reason he killed Havok in Xmen Apocalypse. They tied up his role pretty quickly in DOFP as well. Ratner's saving of Xavier was one of the few things I appreciated in X3. If Cyclops had survived, they could/should have shifted the series to have him as the lead if Jackman was going to leave to do solo films. They could also have 'shrunk' Xavier's power in a future X-men film by explaining some power had got lost in transferring to the other body, if Xavier having too much power was an issue. Berry's Storm never felt quite right to me.... dropping the accent after the first movie was a bit embarrassing- as if admitting the actor just didn't have the chops to do it convincingly. (Though I did like how they had her in Apocalypse mostly). Singer tread lightly on comic lore with the first couple of X-men, but seemed to have too much confidence in changing whatever he wanted to later on. Some changes I was totally fine with (and even thought was better), but the wholesale killing off of some major supporting characters bugged the heck out of me- if White Witch was originally going to be Sigourney Weaver under Singer at the time (which would have rocked)..... he could have just had some of the characters missing in action to refine them the way he wanted later, rather than just saying that they all died in X:DOPF. While I feel X-men is/was a mixed bag under Singer, the great stuff from Singer's time makes me have more hope then not- plus, I thought many other directors of superhero films have done much worse damage on other superhero properties- (Inhumans, Iron Fist as dreadful).... I just wish Sam Raimi and Donner were wanting to still stay in the superhero game somehow.
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Post by Metallo on Sept 10, 2017 14:01:31 GMT -5
Ranter's saving of Xavier was one of the few things I appreciated in X3. If Cyclops had survived, they could/should have shifted the series to have him as the lead if Jackman was going to leave to do solo films. They could also have 'shrunk' Xavier's power in a future X-men film by explaining some power had got lost in transferring to the other body, if Xavier having too much power was an issue. Berry's Storm never felt quite right to me.... dropping the accent after the first movie was a bit embarrassing- as if admitting the actor just didn't have the chops to do it convincingly. (Though I did like how they had her in Apocalypse mostly). Singer tread lightly on comic lore with the first couple of X-men, but seemed to have too much confidence in changing whatever he wanted to later on. Some changes I was totally fine with (and even thought was better), but the wholesale killing off of some major supporting characters bugged the heck out of me- if White Witch was originally going to be Sigourney Weaver under Singer at the time (which would have rocked)..... he could have just had some of the characters missing in action to refine them the way he wanted later, rather than just saying that they all died in X:DOPF. While I feel X-men is/was a mixed bag under Singer, the great stuff from Singer's time makes me have more hope then not- plus, I thought many other directors of superhero films have done much worse damage on other superhero properties- (Inhumans, Iron Fist as dreadful).... I just wish Sam Raimi and Donner were wanting to still stay in the superhero game somehow. Wolverine never should have been the main character. They poisoned the well by doing that because sadly the films without him or less of him didn't make as much. He comes back in a big role in DOFP and it makes more money. Dark Phoenix is going to be a big test because it's the first X-Men film with no Wolverine at all. Even films like X-Men Apocalypse had to take Xavier out of the game to make the story work but they did it in a smart way. At the end he did step in he was just against a rare foe far more powerful than himself. Berry never should have had the accent. She never should have been cast really. Like you said though dropping it admitted it sucked. I didn't like how overconfident and cocky Singer became with X-M:A with Singer claiming he'd kill anyone he wanted to was bs. For one thing we knew it wasn't true but if he did it just would have messed up continuity even more. I agree with you though the shouldn't have just not commented on some characters like Emma Frost. Just say she and others scattered when Magneto was captured. You're right Singer got the tone and feel of the X-men comics right with those first two movies. Putting it in the "real" world was the right call too so people could buy into something they weren't used to. Start small and slowly introduce the audience to the world. That's what Marvel did they just did with more flare and confidence in the source material. Of course you could say they wouldn't have been able to do that if Singer and the first X-Men hadn't set the table and primed the audience for marvel superhero movies. That first decade of films got people ready to accept and jump into the MCU.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 11, 2017 11:42:55 GMT -5
Ranter's saving of Xavier was one of the few things I appreciated in X3. If Cyclops had survived, they could/should have shifted the series to have him as the lead if Jackman was going to leave to do solo films. They could also have 'shrunk' Xavier's power in a future X-men film by explaining some power had got lost in transferring to the other body, if Xavier having too much power was an issue. Berry's Storm never felt quite right to me.... dropping the accent after the first movie was a bit embarrassing- as if admitting the actor just didn't have the chops to do it convincingly. (Though I did like how they had her in Apocalypse mostly). Singer tread lightly on comic lore with the first couple of X-men, but seemed to have too much confidence in changing whatever he wanted to later on. Some changes I was totally fine with (and even thought was better), but the wholesale killing off of some major supporting characters bugged the heck out of me- if White Witch was originally going to be Sigourney Weaver under Singer at the time (which would have rocked)..... he could have just had some of the characters missing in action to refine them the way he wanted later, rather than just saying that they all died in X:DOPF. While I feel X-men is/was a mixed bag under Singer, the great stuff from Singer's time makes me have more hope then not- plus, I thought many other directors of superhero films have done much worse damage on other superhero properties- (Inhumans, Iron Fist as dreadful).... I just wish Sam Raimi and Donner were wanting to still stay in the superhero game somehow. Wolverine never should have been the main character. The poisoned the well by doing that because sadly the films without him or less of him didn't make as much. He comes back in a big role in DOFP and it makes more money. Dark Phoenix is going to be a big test because it's the first Xmen film with no Wolverine at all. Even films like Apocalypse had to take Xavier out of the game to make the story work but they did it in a smart way and in th end he did step in he was just against a rare foe far more powerful than himself. Berry never should have had the accent. She never should have been cast really. Like you said though dropping it admitted it sucked. I didn't like how overconfident and cocky Singer became with X-M:A with Singer claiming he'd kill anyone he wanted to. It was bs. For one thing we knew it wasn't but if he did it just would have messed up continuity even more. I agree with you though the shouldn't have just not commented on some characters like Emma Frost. Just say she and others scattered when Magneto was captured. You're right though Singer got the tone and feel of the Xmen comics right with those first two movies. Putting it in the "real" world was the right call too so people could buy into something they weren't used too. Start small and slowly introduce the audience to the world. That's what Marvel did they just did with more flare and confidence in the source material. Of course you could say they wouldn't have been able to do that if Singer and the first Xmen hadn't set the table and primed the audience for marvel superhero movies. That first decade of films got people ready to accept and jump into the MCU. All true- If not for Singer, a lot might not have happened with superhero films- At the same time.... if he wasn't so overconfident, he would have tried to keep a LITTLE closer to the comics- particularly who to keep and get rid of. With the next X-men film: Unfortunately, I don't think the actor playing Cyclops set the world on fire like Hugh Jackman did with X-men--- and I have a feeling Fox knew it by being willing to pay $$$ to keep McAvoy/Fassbender and JLaw, to keep familiar famous faces--- but it's such a darn shame that X:Apocalypse wasn't better executed either in story and editing. I worry that they'll be just as wasted in the next film as Apocalypse. If Joss Whedon or Michael Dougherty was scripting the next X-men, I'd have more faith. With the writer/director that's in place, I'm trying to look at the bright side, but am wary.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 11, 2017 15:44:41 GMT -5
I keep saying Singer can't quite make that leap when it comes to the fantastical in his movies when he keeps proving me right. It was a problem with his X-men films and Superman Returns. He probably got closest with DOFP and Apocalypse but even then it was kind of awkward like his heart wasn't in that kind of stuff.
Marsden couod have been a great Cyclops but the material wasn't there and they just had no interest in putting him in the forefront. Summers can be seen as a boring character but he can also be seen as a deep complex character. They didn't even try in the movies.
If I were making an Xmen movie the team would probably be Cyclops, Jean, Beast, Storm, Iceman, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and maybe Wolverine and Kitty. Team would already be established with the original team from the comics being the first incarnation. I'd have Logan as the secondary badass Fett/Snake Eyes type character. I'd probably do what Pryde of the Xmen, the Generation X pilot, and Singer himself did and have Kitty just arriving at the school as a way to explain everything.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 11, 2017 16:09:00 GMT -5
I keep saying Singer can't quite make that leap when it comes to the fantastical in his movies when he keeps proving me right. It was a problem with his X-men films and Superman Returns. He probably got closest with DOFP and Apocalypse but even then it was kind of awkward like his heart wasn't in that kind of stuff. Marsden couod have been a great Cyclops but the material wasn't there and they just had no interest in putting him in the forefront. Summers can be seen as a boring character but he can also be seen as a deep complex character. They didn't even try in the movies. If I were making an Xmen movie the team would probably be Cyclops, Jean, Beast, Storm, Iceman, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and maybe Wolverine and Kitty. Team would already be established with the original team from the comics being the first incarnation. I'd have Logan as the secondary badass Fett/Snake Eyes type character. I'd probably do what Pryde of the Xmen, the Generation X pilot, and Singer himself did and have Kitty just arriving at the school as a way to explain everything. With X-men: First Class and X-men: DOFP, I thought they REALLY had a great handle on the characterization of Magneto and Xavier- but then with X-men: Apocalypse, their screen time was reduced and they became cardboard cutouts for the most part. In X-men: First Class, it was Magneto's story- with X-men: DOFP, it was Xavier's --- but with Apocalypse 'being' Mystique's story- it wasn't really anyone's story- outside of the surface. While I'm not crazy about Mystique's character- if they were committed to it, then they didn't go deep enough to have any weight. The 'world class disaster' comes off as a bit meaningless and false, because for some odd reason, none of the characters seem overly concerned about their families (even for a moment) during this time... and transforms the 'world class disaster' into another empty cgi-fest that we've seen too much in other superhero films. If it was going to be a Magneto story, then they should have kept that as the focus if that was the case. Magneto's started off compelling, but his struggle was a bit of a joke at the end. They should have just gone for it with Quicksilver revealing himself to be Magneto's son, rather than 'saving' it for another movie. Cyclops' connection to his brother would have been far stronger if they kept the bits that were deleted, but even then: how can he not be completely pissed at Magneto at the end of the film? Ignoring huge gaps of character bits that would logically happen made the film seem less and less credible by the end. The current problem I feel is the filmmakers not knowing WHO is the primary focus, and sticking to it. When the X-men films worked, there was a primary focus. It could (and should) spread out to other characters, but to me, they have no idea who is really important in the films right now.
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