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Post by supermanproject on Nov 1, 2011 4:34:36 GMT -5
hecko, we're doing a project about superman and his cultural influences. It would be a great help if you superpeople can send us some material about the subject. thx  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2011 11:47:55 GMT -5
That's like asking a group of religious zealots to send some material about God.
Anything specific you want?
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 1, 2011 12:22:04 GMT -5
For culture influence, look at the comics in the 30s, cartoons and serials in the 40s, TV in the 50s, Films in late 70s/early 80s and TV in the 90s/early 2000s
I don't think "The Death of Superman" had any cultural impact (at least here the UK, that was pre-internet for most of us).
You're better off ignoring the last couple of Superman films. They were obvious cash-ins to the 1978 film.
IMO, the launch of Smallville was the last biggest impact for the character. Quite a big deal in its day
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2011 12:29:45 GMT -5
"Death of Superman" have MASSIVE cultural impact, on the comic book end of things. It changed the game. The hype, the sales, the approach, it was after that came out, comics started getting all fucking crazy with prices and stupid covers, variant or shiny or otherwise.
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 1, 2011 12:33:02 GMT -5
On the DVD bonus features of Batman, Michael Uslan talks about how he convinced a university to have a college course on comic books. When the dean balked at the idea, Uslan asked the dean to recite the story of Superman. Once he did that, Uslan told him that he just recited the story of Moses. The course was accredited.
Uslan's story is a pretty good starting point.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 1, 2011 13:00:57 GMT -5
That's dumb. The one story of Superman that parallels Moses is not the entire comics industry
Also, a college course on comic books? people who would study that I am guessing would already have an encyclopaedic knowledge. Apart from working in a comic shop, WTF can a diploma in comics do for you? I am sure in most jobs, you wouldn't get to the interview stage with that crap ;D
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 1, 2011 15:48:37 GMT -5
That's dumb. The one story of Superman that parallels Moses is not the entire comics industry It's a foot in the door, though, and that's all he needed. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Nov 1, 2011 16:34:11 GMT -5
That's dumb. The one story of Superman that parallels Moses is not the entire comics industry Also, a college course on comic books? people who would study that I am guessing would already have an encyclopaedic knowledge. Apart from working in a comic shop, WTF can a diploma in comics do for you? I am sure in most jobs, you wouldn't get to the interview stage with that crap ;D yeah. i was haggling with a liberal dweeb at my favorite bar a couple summers ago, and he kept adding some "loftiness" to his rhetoric by constantly dropping " when i was in college..." "when i got my degree..." when i tell my students..." like i should just punt my entire world view because of his credentials.  well, finally i asked him what his PhD was... "pop culture". i nearly flipped. i didn't believe him at first. i was appalled. what a stupid, useless retarded (no offense to the retarded) thing! a degree, in pop-culture. jesus christ. i can't believe it. i actually have a long rant about it, but franklyit seems so ...stupid to take "pop-culture" and treat it as a science or important information that requires formal study that usually goes to doctors, lawyers or scientists. what's your degree? " chemistry, i am studying pharmacology" ...must be smart. what's your degree? " astro-physics. going to build devices that operate on other planets"...must be smart. what's your degree? " pop-culture. we just listen to dylan records and watch re-runs of old sit-coms and take quizzes that don't matter." ...must be an asshole. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 1, 2011 17:01:08 GMT -5
Plenty of "Mickey Mouse" degree courses here in the UK too (mostly involving Sport and Leisure) but I've never heard one in comics before.
That takes the fucking biscuit.
If you think sitting in a classroom reading about the comic industry for 4 years is productive then you're a fool. Study creative writing/art if it helps you become the next Dan Jurgens. Study marketing or media if you want to get into the publishing side of things
Those 4 years could be spent more wisely, and you can read about Superman's next match against Luthor in your spare time.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 2, 2011 11:14:16 GMT -5
Sounds like the guy was a jerk, with or without a degree. I wouldn't blame the degree. There are degrees in a lot pretty silly things, that wouldn't exist if there weren't enough students to sign up for it (unless there were some other requirement for the college to have it).
But, if I did get a degree in comics, (or philosophy), I don't know where I'd pound my chest in pride over it.... bottom line, the guy sounds like he was an idiot, but that class by Uslan sounds fun to me!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2011 11:38:43 GMT -5
I majored in Mass Communications and minored in Political Science. I feel like I'm wearing a giant "I'm a rube who wastes money and hates success" sign whenever I tell people what my degree is in. Cripes, I can't imagine how bad I'd feel if I had a Pop Culture PhD.
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Post by Paul (ral) on Nov 2, 2011 12:28:14 GMT -5
Uslan wasn't teaching a whole degree on comics, just what would equate to a module (credited course that would contribute to a degree).
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Nov 7, 2011 14:34:10 GMT -5
ye5man, the first year or so of undergraduate degrees is really learning to think critically. You can't tell me that there isn't educational and critical thinking value in certain graphic novels. I challenge you to read Maus and not to think that there is value in discussing it critically in a college undergraduate course.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 7, 2011 18:37:33 GMT -5
Agreed.... but what probably comes as a stigma is that while some of the good stuff can really stand up to other forms of art/literature--- the degree of crap in comics--- when comics ARE bad ---- is SO bad, it's easy to dismiss the whole form outright.
(Not that it should be dismissed, but I can understand why comics can be considered a lower form of art/writing-- and some writers/artists/publishers aren't helping the cause any with what they put out.)
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 8, 2011 17:28:27 GMT -5
You can apply critical thinking to pretty much any forms of media/entertainment.
I'd rather kids apply critical thinking to the B.S. of the media rather than comic books
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Nov 9, 2011 9:13:58 GMT -5
What is so different about comics? There is incredible merit in studying comic books sequential art. Take these texts for example and tell me that an undergraduate english course couldn't be centered around them. Maybe art/art history majors could get more out of specifically studying the form of sequential art. But anyone can get great discussions going centered around the following works:
Maus
Persepolis
Kingdom Come
Arkham Asylum: A serious house on serious earth
Watchmen
Sandman
In the shadow of No Towers
Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art
The dark Knight Returns
Sin City
Don't be one of those people that puts down the art form because of it's lowest common denominators.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 10, 2011 14:52:19 GMT -5
Having taken some of the 'important literature' (quote unquote) classes from some of the state universities--- I've had teachers who were full of themselves and learned NOTHING from the classes, and other teachers who were down to earth and felt that I learned a ton from them, maybe in part because they considered themselves students themselves of the world & were constantly learning/sharing. So, I dunno---- my opinion on what you get out of a class is largely due to the teacher teaching it. If Uslan is passionate about what he's teaching, then there might well be other classes that are higher respected- but it's only one teacher (as far as we know) teaching this one particular class.... so I have a feeling that it's not impossible that one may get more out of his class that he's passionate about, than a poor teacher who's teaching solely for a paycheck who teaching a class on Shakespeare.  |
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atp
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Post by atp on Nov 10, 2011 15:02:25 GMT -5
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 10, 2011 15:07:09 GMT -5
You didn't include Superman Returns, but you also didn't include the Donner Cut, so we're square.  |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 10, 2011 17:15:09 GMT -5
If you're studying art and drawing then of course its OK to use comics as a reference
You mentioned "critical thinking" earlier though, which I responded. Better off learning to read between the lines of the crap of the media, and how it brainwashes the masses - which you can then apply to comic books. Although if you want to explore themes and such in stories in general then why bother with comic books? Go and tell your students to digest a complex novel like LA Confidential instead. Only my opinion you understand. I know if a kid come to me for a job with a degree in comics he wouldn't get an interview.
But sure, if its art you're now talking about then "Kingdom come" is the best starting point IMO.
Bottom line, it seems to be something you can learn in your spare time; use formal education more wisely. That is all.
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Nov 12, 2011 16:56:42 GMT -5
A lot of universities require so many classes that fulfill certain requirements, regardless of your major. For instance, at the university of michigan, i had to take a class that fulfilled a race and ethnicity requirement. I can't remember what I took, but if I could have taken a class that explored African American representations in modern day comic books and graphic novels it would have been pretty cool. There is merit, and not just for art majors.
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