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Post by Olly H 82 on Nov 9, 2011 10:53:55 GMT -5
Hey fellas, over the last few days ive been working on a Superman IV retrospective / review. Ive been wanting to discuss my thoughts for a long time on this film and wanted to create a video expressing them. If any of you disagree with my views and comments im cool with it and respect that. Enjoy! www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaBSf04Lp48 |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 9, 2011 18:42:48 GMT -5
Very good Olly, I agree with it all. Left more detailed response on there.
Even to me, your Cambridge twang stands out as very English, lol
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Post by Olly H 82 on Nov 9, 2011 18:57:53 GMT -5
haha " My Cambridge Twang". Cheers Russ!
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 9, 2011 19:12:27 GMT -5
Nice video. Smooth voice.  ;D One comment about the deleted scenes. You said that they were from a workprint and would have been tightened in the final cut. I do not believe that is so. I reassembled the complete cut using the deleted scenes and the soundtrack. I was very surprised to find that the score tracks for the deleted scenes fit PERFECTLY onto the scenes as-is. That leads me to believe that what you see in the workprint footage is exactly how it was to the disastrous test screening, because that's exactly what Courage saw when he was scoring it. |
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Nov 9, 2011 19:49:42 GMT -5
Not always, scenes are frequently edited after the scoring process, usually to accommodate for special effects shots or just to rework it a bit. A lot of STM's score is chopped up and moved around because of this.
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Post by Olly H 82 on Nov 10, 2011 6:34:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback Jimbo.
You bring up a valid point there mate. Well the producer of the recent soundtrack boxset said it wasn't a work print but more like a scoring print because of the wipes that track across the screen. But Harrison Ellenshaw had mentioned to a friend of mine that it was SFX print. So im a bit lost. haha
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 10, 2011 7:03:51 GMT -5
Makes more sense if its a scoring print
And Superman IV on the worst films list? Nah. Film is light fluff mostly for the kids, plus it zips along quite quickly. The worst films are those that seriously bore and make you lose interest *cough* Phantom Menace, which literally numbed my arse at the cinema
Another point of interest is the framing - terrible. The only film which looks better in 4:3 ;D ;D ;D
Interesting film though; we should get drunk and do a commentary some day
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Post by Olly H 82 on Nov 10, 2011 7:09:33 GMT -5
haha yes Russ a drunken commentary would be sweet!. Get Martin involved.
Me and Tim used to discuss the framing of Superman 4, both agreed it looked like they had the TV framing in mind.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Nov 10, 2011 7:52:15 GMT -5
What makes it worse is the framing of the first 3 was so well done
Plus the awful lighting; the double date stuff (that green wallpaper!) was so flat. Again, the lighting on the others was very well done.
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Post by Olly H 82 on Nov 10, 2011 8:23:10 GMT -5
yes the green wall paper!. Bad 80s fashion!.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 10, 2011 12:31:34 GMT -5
Great video- it takes time to put these things together, well done! My own two cents has been/was that --- much like the music, I bought the original whole script from a science fiction convention months before the release- so the budget/etc. was limitless in reading it, before seeing what was on screen when things got 'downsized'- and then incomprehensible. Wasn't a perfect script, but it was interesting enough and I liked that there was an actual genuine challenge for Superman that was fresh and interesting that hadn't been covered in comics, with (what would have been) a large scale. (Also, bearing in mind that unfortunately all the Superman films up to the point had some dumb moments in the script: STM with time reversal/ Otis' bumbling and the over-the-top army incompetence / SII had the memory kiss/ SIII was just bad sitcom schtick/ compared to that, SIV's complete script wasn't that bad I'd argue. Tom Mankiewicz felt it was a mistake for Supes to tackle nuclear arms, but I thought that it was in the execution of the story--- and on the page, the idea of Supes' responding to a child's wish felt right... but, I'd agree that the execution just felt- 'off'. Something sentimental, that Donner or a Speilberg might have been able to make work. About the (at times) bad performances: Was it really all due to not enough time to film for a number of the scenes that DIDN'T involve special effects that performances were off (particularly a very unnappealing caricature version of Lois)? Not impossible- but..... in viewing Sydney Furie's "Iron Eagle" movie--- which was a 'hit'--- that was a bit lame in and of itself. At the same time, everyone in the cast mentions that Sydney Furie's heart was in the right place for Superman IV- I don't know if any director at the time was jumping forward to direct a Superman film--- When Donner shared that WB came back to him and Mank to steer the movie series on course to be more serious, and they didn't want to come back- because the well had been 'spoiled' perhaps others also felt the same way. Pity we never got a commentary by Furie on more specifics to clear the air once and for all--- was he or wasn't he happy with any of the scenes in the film? I think there are definitely bits that work, and except for bits here and there, and in the end--- at least the Cannon company got another Chris Reeve Superman movie made-- even if it was for pennies.... WB seemed like it was going to be content with doing tv shows instead. I do wonder in an alternate universe if the NON-existence of SIV would have made a better Superman movie possible later on--- but, who knows? It's possible that NO further Reeve Superman movie might have been done, too... But- still, all in all-- it's nice to see that decades later, STM is still remembered above them all as the gold standard for Superhero films and SII as the great 'what if'? SIV might not be even a silver standard, but it's an interesting view with a sincere Reeve performance and a glimpse of what a Superman movie looks like with some promise, but no time nor money. If SIV made it's money back and a LITTLE more..... wonder how things would have gone forward from there? Would Reeve have come back for SV? Would Cannon just (as was stated somewhere) re-edit the deleted scenes to make Superman V? (It's still hard to believe how that could even be possible)  |
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 10, 2011 12:36:22 GMT -5
The entire convention center United Nations bursting into cheer when Superman declares he'll get rid of nukes. So so stupid. Countries like having nukes. Countries that have them want to keep them for posturing purposes, and countries that don't have them want them to make their enemies worry. So suddenly, the USA and Russians agree to help Superman by launching nukes into the sky and hoping Superman would fly by and retrieve them.  Just as bad as the Army and Navy test-firing live nukes with 500 megaton warheads.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 10, 2011 12:43:51 GMT -5
The story (to me) read like one of those 'what if' comics from the silver age. Very much like a fairy tale- Paul Dini tackled the same type of story idea ('why doesn't Superman get involved with world issues?') in a comic with a giant degree of seriousness- and I didn't care for it as much.
Since I took the script has having that kind of fairy-tale alternate universe as a tone, it didn't phase me so much about the UN's simplistic reactions.
Yeah, I wondered about that....
;D ;D ;D
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 10, 2011 13:21:23 GMT -5
To Superman IV's credit, they didn't recycle Lex's land scheme.  |
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