Superman II - The Hurst Cut

[TylerDurden389]

I don't like the idea of hearing dialogue while seeing something else anymore (I know I messed around with the idea in my previous drafts, I've re-considered since). Veris, if you really wanna re-instate the added Lois RIC dialogue outside the FOS, the only way you're gonna sell me on the idea is if you remaster the footage and rotoscope it into the proper b.g shots lol. CAM did this a while back in one of his drafts but it was weird to see Lois looking all grainy lol.

CAM, I think you should upload that scene so others here can see it and get an idea of what I'm talking about. If you don't have the scene anymore though, just give me the ok and I'll do it for ya (I've held onto every draft you've sent me). I'd imagine with proper tools (and plenty of time & patience) something could be done today.

Oh, and on further thought I've re-canted my "Concorde' statement. A short scene like that without any prior establishing shots doesn't really add anything. It's a nice Superman moment though. If it was a longer scene, with some further tweaks and editing it could've been used as an alternate ending to S2. Instead of re-using the S1 flyby, I mean.

[crazy_asian_man]

I don't like the idea of hearing dialogue while seeing something else anymore (I know I messed around with the idea in my previous drafts, I've re-considered since). Veris, if you really wanna re-instate the added Lois RIC dialogue outside the FOS, the only way you're gonna sell me on the idea is if you remaster the footage and rotoscope it into the proper b.g shots lol. CAM did this a while back in one of his drafts but it was weird to see Lois looking all grainy lol.

Personally, I don't think it works... but-I think it's more a question of what feels more distracting- the grainy video or missing dialogue/funky Lois voice....

Oh, and on further thought I've re-canted my "Concorde' statement. A short scene like that without any prior establishing shots doesn't really add anything. It's a nice Superman moment though. If it was a longer scene, with some further tweaks and editing it could've been used as an alternate ending to S2. Instead of re-using the S1 flyby, I mean.

Oddly, the original script's fox hunt probably adds even less- even though it's there to maybe add a light touch- (and social commentary- as Donner always seems to have the 'no fur' button on his shirt in interviews), for my tastes, I wouldn't have minded it if Concorde was genuinely restored in the RDC to serve the same purpose of seeing Supes in a light context first before the action begins. Selutron did the best version I think in sewing up the reconstructed flyby- to changing clothes in the alleyway as a replacement for the fox hunt/changing in the cab in the Mank script.

[verisimilitude]

The general idea of RIC dialogue mixed with RDC footage shouldn't be frowned upon, as I believe it can be done very smoothly.

However, each instance is specific to its own logistics. The FOS Lois dialogue may or may not work. I would have to tweak the voice, lower the hiss, eq it as necessary, and then see what ways there might be to re-edit the shots of them to either change the order, or make an already used shot, look different. Sometimes, some patience and a good imagination can yield surprising results.

But I truly think the balloon dialogue and the Lex/Eve FOS dialogue worked to great effect in the original V-Cut. In fact, it will be even better this time, because of better software to help me with the audio quality.

[Knight]

11. Orange Juicer (RIC) I love this scene and I really think Lester short changed himself by trimming it down.

As for the concord fly by the approach is fine,I love the shot of the cockpit/pilots looking at Superman. Barrell roll I can live without.

I use the footage of Superman flying back to earth after the lift explodes,clouds zoom from STM (before ship crashes to earth )fly by pilots/concord scene. ''Hi Lois!'' RIC O/J scene.

A very poor choice not to have the longer goodbye at the end of II,outside FOS and the balcony.

[crazy_asian_man]

The general idea of RIC dialogue mixed with RDC footage shouldn't be frowned upon, as I believe it can be done very smoothly.

However, each instance is specific to its own logistics. The FOS Lois dialogue may or may not work. I would have to tweak the voice, lower the hiss, eq it as necessary, and then see what ways there might be to re-edit the shots of them to either change the order, or make an already used shot, look different. Sometimes, some patience and a good imagination can yield surprising results.

But I truly think the balloon dialogue and the Lex/Eve FOS dialogue worked to great effect in the original V-Cut. In fact, it will be even better this time, because of better software to help me with the audio quality.

Veris- My reply 'I don't think it works'- was meant for the idea of my rotoscoping the existing Lois in the IRC for the FOS extended dialogue and plopping her into a fresh background to blend it into the RDC truncated version.... wasn't referring to the idea of RIC dialogue to the RDC--- sorry for the miscommunication.

I was ONLY referring to trying to restore that particular sequence. There's no cutaways that make any sense for that part, and over-the-shoulder shots from the RDC are EXTREMELY short in that bit.

To me, Lois' voice is so distracting + the missing dialogue that I prefer to have blurry footage sewn in vs. the RDC FOS scene 'as is'--- that's what I was referring to.... not the idea of using RIC dialogue for RDC footage.

[hursty]

Mar 21, 2012 19:47:10 GMT -5 Knight said:

11. Orange Juicer (RIC) I love this scene and I really think Lester short changed himself by trimming it down.

As for the concord fly by the approach is fine,I love the shot of the cockpit/pilots looking at Superman. Barrell roll I can live without.

I use the footage of Superman flying back to earth after the lift explodes,clouds zoom from STM (before ship crashes to earth )fly by pilots/concord scene. ''Hi Lois!'' RIC O/J scene.

A very poor choice not to have the longer goodbye at the end of II,outside FOS and the balcony.

I think I've used the Supes flies back to earth bit myself.

[verisimilitude]

Mar 22, 2012 2:17:27 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

The general idea of RIC dialogue mixed with RDC footage shouldn't be frowned upon, as I believe it can be done very smoothly.

However, each instance is specific to its own logistics. The FOS Lois dialogue may or may not work. I would have to tweak the voice, lower the hiss, eq it as necessary, and then see what ways there might be to re-edit the shots of them to either change the order, or make an already used shot, look different. Sometimes, some patience and a good imagination can yield surprising results.

But I truly think the balloon dialogue and the Lex/Eve FOS dialogue worked to great effect in the original V-Cut. In fact, it will be even better this time, because of better software to help me with the audio quality.

Veris- My reply 'I don't think it works'- was meant for the idea of my rotoscoping the existing Lois in the IRC for the FOS extended dialogue and plopping her into a fresh background to blend it into the RDC truncated version.... wasn't referring to the idea of RIC dialogue to the RDC--- sorry for the miscommunication.

I was ONLY referring to trying to restore that particular sequence. There's no cutaways that make any sense for that part, and over-the-shoulder shots from the RDC are EXTREMELY short in that bit.

To me, Lois' voice is so distracting + the missing dialogue that I prefer to have blurry footage sewn in vs. the RDC FOS scene 'as is'--- that's what I was referring to.... not the idea of using RIC dialogue for RDC footage.

Hey, no worries, CAM. I hear ya. I agree with you. I don't think rotoscoping IRC footage in with the 2 official versions would help, either. In retrospect, I regret including that 2 seconds of IRC footage of the boy getting on the horse. Won't be repeated. I'll figure out a different way to handle that piece.

[crazy_asian_man]

Hursty just gave me the opportunity to generously view his cut:
In talking to him, got his permission to post/share thoughts-

* First off, it's the first (as far as I know) full-frame version of SII incorporating RDC elements, so it was very interesting. The nice part of it was being able to enjoy the positive elements of the extended Donner stuff without the over-editing by Thau (particularly the unnecessary dialogue trims of the Lois/Supes scenes) without aspect ratio changes.

While letterbox is preffered by everybody, a mainly IRC-based cut that never got a widescreen release on dvd doesn't leave a lot of options, so this is a nice 'second best' alternative.

* It's basically IRC + RDC elements. The picture quality is actually pretty good (as good as the IRC VHS quality allowed, I'm sure).

There are things that (of course) I see that I might have added/cut differently here and there- but that's been the same with all fan cuts I've viewed.

There isn't too much I can add that hasn't already been said about fan cut discussions- but I hadn't seen SII in awhile, so it did reaffirm:

#1: The Lester stuff with Paris wasn't that bad, even in long form... probably the closest lester gets to Donner's tone. It's just not all that spectacular a sequence as it could have been. The alleyway change is untouchable (even if it makes no sense why he needs to run downstairs instead of the janitor's closet to change if he's at the top of the daily planet) as a great Supes moment- and at least it looks expensive (unlike many of other Lester bits).

#2: Only nitpicks: (and it's all personal bias, not anything really wrong) The RDC titles never crazy about in any cut, but I could understand why they were included & I thought maybe even though gags were removed from the Metro battle, even more could have been cut to the bone- but it does expose how short the battle is that Lester actually shot once gags are taken away.

Anyhow- neat experience to view SII in a new way. Great job!
O

[hursty]

Glad you enjoyed mate

I think the form of the film gets all the best elements of all versions, so we can still enjoy the film we grew up with, but with changes that keep in with Donner's vision, but without the indulgences of the RDC

[TylerDurden389]

Sounds to me like your cut is exactly what we fans have been clamoring for. Any chance of you uploading it for others to see? I'm curious to see what your idea of a "perfect" Superman 2 edit looks like.

[hursty]

I probably won't as it's not my original work, somebody did it for me

But I can do people copies on DVD if they so desire.

[TylerDurden389]

Do you live in the US? I'd like to see your cut but I can't pay you 15 dollars to ship it here lol.

[hursty]

Gimme a day or so, I'll see what I can do.

[TylerDurden389]

Thanks Hursty!!

[Knight]

I have just finished a rough ending for SII, so it's as follows:




DC, goodbye. Superman flys away into the night.



EXT. Metropolis - Day.



INT. DP - Lois is sat in front of her typewriter:



("after she exclaims ''Ha!'') Lois begins to type...



Extra! Superman Saves Humanity from Eternal Domination!



EXT. Earth - Moments later. Superman is above earth, he sees the image of Jor-El and hears his Father's voice:



Jor El: Even though you have been raised as a human being, you are not one of them. You must still keep you secret identity.



He remembers Lois saying: ''Don't ever forget,OK?''



Superman has mixed emotions, conflict is clearly visible.



He hears Pa Kent's voice:



Pa Kent: You are here for a reason...



After the voices, Superman turns back the world as in STM.



EXT. Metropolis - Day. Moments later. The Donner cut all the way to:


Lois exclaims, ''Ha!'' she begins typing: Superman Takes Day off!



Lois: You know your really super!



Clark turns to Lois, he pauses for a brief moment and continues on.



The sun rises in the distance of space behind the earth... fly by credits...



I changed the order of 'Superman Takes Day Off' / Lois saying ''You know your really Super''. As that is a better way to end, rather than the headline, Clark reacts and then the credits.

[Conor]

Include this!!

[monkeymagic]

Sorry, I'm a bit slow at these things. Can someone explain why Bats is so upset? Thanks.

[Conor]

Basically Superman is bi. He did the 'old pretend to lose powers so I can buck you' trick!!