|
|
Post by EnriqueH on Mar 18, 2012 13:58:51 GMT -5
The poll might be a joke to you, but I've seen several people say they prefer SIV to SR and was interested in how the poll would turn out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 18, 2012 14:20:33 GMT -5
Well, it appears that sanity is winning the day here.
But SIV does have the superior score. By miles. That's about all, though. Kidder in SIV is almost as unappealing and embarrassing as JarJar Bosworth. Neither Hackman nor Spacey particularly look like they want to be there.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,076
|
Post by Metallo on Mar 18, 2012 17:44:07 GMT -5
Actually, I will agree that SIV's score is better than SR's. While SR has flashes of brilliance, SIV really does deliver a consistently invigorating score with its own identity, but also expanding upon the existing themes (rather than just quoting them verbatim). That's about it's only upper hand though. I love both scores. In both cases they are among the best things about the films. This poll is clearly a sad joke for anyone with some taste in decent filmmaking. I won't even vote because it's an absurd poll, period. All this hate is unwarranted. SR is a good film, while SIV is a joke. Not even Reeve can save it, yes even he phoned in his performance and didn't even train to get in S shape. It was just a pay check, nothing more. Sorry but I call it as I see it. I've read two different stories on Reeve. One was it was a planned out decision not to get as bulky and another was that he had a hernia. If he WAS hurt you can hardly blame him for that. As much as like Routh Reeve still looked the role better even in SIV. Well, it appears that sanity is winning the day here. But SIV does have the superior score. By miles. That's about all, though. Kidder in SIV is almost as unappealing and embarrassing as JarJar Bosworth. Neither Hackman nor Spacey particularly look like they want to be there. Funny enough Hackman always looked like one of the FEW people in SIV enjoying himself to me. He clearly did it for the paycheck though. He never seemed to be what I'd call in love with the material even around the time of STM and that was the best of the bunch. Only thing that would put the SIV score over the top for me is the Nuclear Man theme. great piece of new material. |
|
|
|
Post by EnriqueH on Mar 18, 2012 17:52:33 GMT -5
One cool if chilling thing about SIV was the last line ever spoken by Reeve as Superman:
See you in 20.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,076
|
Post by Metallo on Mar 18, 2012 18:16:06 GMT -5
That was almost prophetic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 18:34:35 GMT -5
Actually, I will agree that SIV's score is better than SR's. While SR has flashes of brilliance, SIV really does deliver a consistently invigorating score with its own identity, but also expanding upon the existing themes (rather than just quoting them verbatim). That's about it's only upper hand though. I love both scores. In both cases they are among the best things about the films. I've read two different stories on Reeve. One was it was a planned out decision not to get as bulky and another was that he had a hernia. If he WAS hurt you can hardly blame him for that. As much as like Routh Reeve still looked the role better even in SIV. Well, it appears that sanity is winning the day here. But SIV does have the superior score. By miles. That's about all, though. Kidder in SIV is almost as unappealing and embarrassing as JarJar Bosworth. Neither Hackman nor Spacey particularly look like they want to be there. Funny enough Hackman always looked like one of the FEW people in SIV enjoying himself to me. He clearly did it for the paycheck though. He never seemed to be what I'd call in love with the material even around the time of STM and that was the best of the bunch. Only thing that would put the SIV score over the top for me is the Nuclear Man theme. great piece of new material. Reeve said he had an injury which meant he couldnt train as he had before. Like you said though, he still looked the part more than anyone. If they wanted to I suppose they could have made padding for him, like the padding Routh wore. Think some people are a bit to dismissive of other peoples opinions. SR is clearly the better made film, but I have much more fun and get much more enjoyment out of watching Reeve and Hackman in SIV |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,076
|
Post by Metallo on Mar 18, 2012 19:19:21 GMT -5
Routh needed the padding even less though. The issues with his build were almost all because of the suit; whether it was the way the material compressed his body or the cut which distorted his proportions (something done intentionally with Adam Wests Batman suit). Nearly every superhero suit that uses similar kinds of material needs that padding. Maguire's Spider-man outfit was loaded with even more than Rouths Superman suit. The Fantastic Four costumes had the same problem.
The only thing that looked like it really needed some work on Routh was his too thin neck but the suit also made that look worse.
I suppose Reeve could have worn padding but even in IV I don't think he was quite bad off enough to need it. He still looked in better shape than any guy not named Christian Bale who played Batman.
One of the most noticeable faults in Reeve's physique in IV was his arms but that was also true on the other films only less so. That hurdle was there partly because he was so damn tall and naturally thin.
|
|
|
|
Post by EnriqueH on Mar 18, 2012 21:15:12 GMT -5
Well, it appears that sanity is winning the day here. But SIV does have the superior score. By miles. That's about all, though. Kidder in SIV is almost as unappealing and embarrassing as JarJar Bosworth. Neither Hackman nor Spacey particularly look like they want to be there. Hmmm. I don't agree about Kidder in IV vs. Bosworth. I thought Kidder did a fine job (considering it was SIV). The problem with Kidder is that she was looking pretty rough in IV, but then I thought she looked rough from Lester's II onward and even looked slightly better, if older, in IV. As for the poll, I'm not sure I made my point obvious enough earlier, but I did vote SR. |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823 
|
Post by atp on Mar 19, 2012 1:57:25 GMT -5
S4 was crap with a small budget. SR was crap with a huge budget.
|
|
ye5man
New Member
1%
Posts: 7,928
|
Post by ye5man on Mar 19, 2012 5:44:26 GMT -5
Objectively, SR is the better film
But I find Superman IV is more watchable and rewatchable - mostly thanks to the superior score. Plus IMO it has the better take offs and landings.
Both films feature an introspective Superman, piss poor flying shots that take you out the film, pointless Smallville beginning, "homages" to earlier Supes flicks, Lois played by an actress who knows its crap, disappointing editing, flat/dark lighting, plots that make no sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 19, 2012 6:36:16 GMT -5
Well, it appears that sanity is winning the day here. But SIV does have the superior score. By miles. That's about all, though. Kidder in SIV is almost as unappealing and embarrassing as JarJar Bosworth. Neither Hackman nor Spacey particularly look like they want to be there. Hmmm. I don't agree about Kidder in IV vs. Bosworth. I thought Kidder did a fine job (considering it was SIV). The problem with Kidder is that she was looking pretty rough in IV, but then I thought she looked rough from Lester's II onward and even looked slightly better, if older, in IV. As for the poll, I'm not sure I made my point obvious enough earlier, but I did vote SR. I dunno. It's more than her looks. She seems...out of it. Alright, yeah...maybe I am letting her looks influence me. Nobody's as bad as Bosworth. |
|
|
|
Post by stargazer01 on Mar 19, 2012 11:33:21 GMT -5
The last time I watched it (years ago), I only felt really sad for all the actors involved.  |
|
hursty
New Member
I win! I always win!
Posts: 337
|
Post by hursty on Mar 19, 2012 11:48:09 GMT -5
SIV for me because for all its faults it stars the true Superman, and has a lot of heart.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimbo on Mar 19, 2012 11:59:58 GMT -5
SIV for me because for all its faults it stars the true Superman, and has a lot of heart. I forget - have you seen SR yet though?  |
|
hursty
New Member
I win! I always win!
Posts: 337
|
Post by hursty on Mar 19, 2012 12:13:48 GMT -5
Yes!
|
|
ye5man
New Member
1%
Posts: 7,928
|
Post by ye5man on Mar 19, 2012 12:57:49 GMT -5
The last time I watched it (years ago), I only felt really sad for all the actors involved. Quite ironic as most people feel the same sentiment towards Routh |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,076
|
Post by Metallo on Mar 19, 2012 13:03:09 GMT -5
I'd be perfectly fine showing Superman Returns to a normal person who knows nothing about Superman. I'd feel f*cking embarrassed to show anyone Superman IV. I like it but I bet most would laugh their ass off at how cheap looking it is. Most probably wouldn't be able to get past the the first cut and paste flying shot of Reeve.
|
|
|
|
Post by Valentine Smith on Mar 19, 2012 13:09:02 GMT -5
The last time I watched it (years ago), I only felt really sad for all the actors involved. I agree. I get uncomfortable watching it sometimes. |
|
|
|
Post by Kamdan on Mar 19, 2012 14:57:17 GMT -5
They both suck in their retrospective ways.
|
|
|
|
Post by stargazer01 on Mar 19, 2012 15:10:31 GMT -5
SIV for me because for all its faults it stars the true Superman, and has a lot of heart. It depends who you ask. To some, me included, Brandon is a true Superman in many ways as well. Oh wait, I forgot that for some Reeve is God and everything he touches is amazing, sorry.  I also feel sorry for him but in a different way; I feel sad he won't have the chance to continue playing the role. I don't feel sorry for him being cast in SR since I like his work and the movie a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 19, 2012 15:27:38 GMT -5
As soon as I went through the jaw-dropping disappointment of seeing SIV in the theatres once the cardboard cutout flew across the screen in the first scene--- ("This does NOT bode well" was my thought)...
After the first viewing, I kept feeling like: "Well, it's at least a chance to see Reeve ONE more time in costume"--- and I see it now as a cheap home movie version of the Reeve Superman. I felt (and still feel) Reeve gave 1000% and WANTED it to be good--- but knew it was somewhat doomed once the budget got chaffed to pieces.
It always aimed to be a family-friendly 'kid' film with an adult theme... whereas with SR- it seemed to take a specific choice: going for the adult drama audience--- which was ballsy, but as much as I love the movie, I keep saying over and over again: It coulda/shoulda had more 'fireworks' with the superhero elements, if it wasn't going to be a light and breezy summer movie, if it needed to pack in gabillions to not disappoint.
On the flip side, I'd be shocked as heck if MOS isn't packed with fireworks, but I hope I do care about the characters. Will see.....
Anyhow- back to SIV vs. SR:
SIV is fun with the right mindset: it's a cheap fanfilm with star actors.
SR is a great film to me, but it was never fun. It was a dark Greek tragedy with a hopeful ending.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tristan D on Mar 19, 2012 16:56:09 GMT -5
Yes. I think Alexander Courage's score makes better use of the themes, and has an energy and dynamism that John Ottman's doesn't (not consistently though). I find the 'Personal Theme' of SR very hollow and unsatisfying. Compare that to Courage's treatment of the scenes where Superman is sick or where he confronts the UN, and there is a clear difference. That's not to say SR has a bad score. It's just the Superman score I enjoy least.
But that's about the end of SIV's hand. SR has it's flaws, but it is a much better film.
Precisely. We as fans are so close to these films and the subject matter that it's hard to be objective or to remember how an ordinary person views them. I will from time to time sit down and watch ALL (or any) of the Superman films and enjoy them on some level.
But really, I can only show SR to friends as a serious film. SIV is laughable to an ordinary film viewer. My friends have regularly watched it for laughs, and they compare it to the Star Wars Holiday Special. To ordinary people (i.e. people who aren't willing to make exceptions and forgive such a poor script or special effects) the film is a farce.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tristan D on Mar 19, 2012 17:00:22 GMT -5
I wonder if fans of the Jaws franchise have similar debates. After all those films seem to mirror the quality of the original Superman films.
Hmmmm
|
|
hursty
New Member
I win! I always win!
Posts: 337
|
Post by hursty on Mar 19, 2012 18:08:06 GMT -5
Oh wait, I forgot that for some Reeve is God and everything he touches is amazing, sorry. Apology accepted.  |
|
|
|
Post by EnriqueH on Mar 19, 2012 21:53:36 GMT -5
I wonder if fans of the Jaws franchise have similar debates. After all those films seem to mirror the quality of the original Superman films. Hmmmm Actually, yes! I don't really like Jaws 3 at all. I find it kinda boring. Jaws 4 is a worse film, but also infinitely more entertaining than Jaws 3. BUT...the Jaws 4 I grew up on was aired on HBO and didn't have the ending available on DVD that features the exploding shark with Mario Van Peebles surviving. The ending I grew up showed the shark getting impaled but not exploding and looked cleaner F/X wise than the version that came out on DVD. |
|
