The Richard Donner Cut

[hursty]

Superman II is the bane of my life. I hate having all these different versions now as I have a feeling of incompleteness about all of them, even my own cut - having to use low quality RIC footage for some of the best stuff - isnt satisfying.

I know I'm preaching to the converted, but the liberties Thau took with our film are reprehensible, even sticking himself along side the legendary Stuart Baird as a co-editor. Mate, all you did was stick crappy 2006 cgi in a 1980 movie.

We do owe him for unearthing the Brando scenes I guess, and we have gotten to see Donner vision as best we can, but the RDC could have been so much better.

I think the thing I hate the most is the full colour Jor-El in the first of his scenes, Jor-El should always be seen in the ghostly white fashion, because he IS a ghose, a spectre, a voice from the past. That fantastic scene with Lex is ruined and he looks like he's been added to the scene with MS Paint! Infuriating.

But at least he looks the part in the second two of his scenes.

Turning back time again - as originally scripted - would have worked, but once its been canonised in STM, Donner would not have used it again if he had completed the film in the first place, he would have come up with something else

And if the East Houston arena is going to be used, all of that footage should have included, especially the killing of the boy which possibly the darkest thing Lester did in the film.

I think I need to instigate another cut for myself.

[Knight]

Definitely. I totally agree with you it bugs the heck out of me too.

I hate having to watch three versions of the film to get 'the whole picture.' One scene ends in one cut and in another, the same scene continues....

Even if WB (however unlikely) clean up the RIC for an 'extras' disc that would do me. Wishful thinking.

The longer flight chase between Non and Superman as Zod laughs,taunting... ''Kill him'' is excellent.

The longer goodbye with Lois and Superman outside the FOS and the balcony. Excellent.

...Then the beautiful... ''well,there he goes again. Up,up and away.'' in the DC.

[hursty]

And the re-take of zod's line 'why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it' with respect to Stamp, the delivery in this take isn't as good as the one used in Lester's and the voice isn't re-looped

Why have a stand-in who sounds NOTHING like Reeve quote the 'freedom of the press' line, wheh we have Reeve actually saying 'General would you care to step outside' which is a better line with the irony of stepping outside into the open air which would kill anyone but the four kryptonians.

And why did the same stand in say the 'I'm not a coward Zod' line when again, we have Reeve saying that line in the RIC.

Is the office Jerk who reminds Supes to bash the bully up also given a new voice?

And the man who has kept Lex's liberace record, who just makes an effeminate moan instead the amusing riposte 'there's a scratch on it'

[Knight]

Yea,the film(s) are peppered with stupid edits and omissions each version completes the other,if that makes sense.

I think the loops you refer to are due to the elements not being available for Thau to use, ie looping Margo over the balcony scene in the DC. Listen to that scene in the RIC and it's Margo.

But,yea... annoying.

[hursty]

How do you mean? Just use the previous version

[Kamdan]

Mar 19, 2012 7:40:02 GMT -5 hursty said:

And why did the same stand in say the 'I'm not a coward Zod' line when again, we have Reeve saying that line in the RIC.

I think it was because the Lester version had unwanted background noise of Non growling,

Yeah, the combination of bad effects works, editing and looping made this long awaited project a big disappointment. The editing bothered me, because Thau didn't need to trim the end of every Lester scene, just to speed it up. It really made you wish that Donner and Thau could have been just as passionate about making this edition film, as Charles de Lauzirika and Ridley Scott were for the Blu-ray edition of Blade Runner and seeing Selutron's footage made you believe it was possible. That guy seriously need to finish what he began.

I’m also under the impression that most of the new Donner footage (the opening at the Daily Planet and Brando’s footage, for example) were consisted of “second best takes.” I always noted how posed and elegant Brando sounded in the first film. However, Brando sounds more like his usual mumbling self in the Donner Cut footage. There had to have been better takes.

[hursty]

Well, I can't agree about Brando, true the scenes aren't as majestic as the STM scenes, but seeing as the were all recorded in the same week, I've got no reason to beleive that the level of performance was any lower. The first Jor-El scene isn't particularly dramatic, but the second and third are fantastic, hardly mumbling. And the dirty look he throws at Lois is beyond perfection.

But I agree about Donner's insistence on pace which flies in the face of STM, which went entirely at its own pace. The pace of Lesters film is actually one of the best things about it.

[Kamdan]

I guess my expectations were set too high, after the seeing the wonderful "If it weren't for vanity, I could embrace you in my arms" scene from the first film. I eargly awaited for something like that to pay off in the Donner Cut, but I didn't get that feeling in Superman II, but it could have been the combination of messing up the effect and mixing of Brando's voice that disrupted it. Also, that stuff with Reeve was the first stuff he did and it shows.

[hursty]

Reeve's cry of 'Father' in the RDC - I'm positive he had something stuck in his throat, his voice sounds strange, the 'Father' in the Lester version is far more haunting. Aside from that, his acting in the scenes with Brando is great.

I think the 'first night' Jor-El sequence from STM is magnificent as you quite rightly say, the dialogue and the Williams music is spot on, almost raises a tear so good is the acting. But I honestly beleive the 2nd and 3rd Brando scenes in S2 measure up.

[crazy_asian_man]

IRC widescreen hd or (better yet) a MUCH better recut of the RDC SII from WB, that's all I want, aside from world peace...

[Knight]

What I mean,Hursty is that note in my first post: one scene ends and in another cut it continues.

Like Superman and Lex in the FOS at the end, Lex: ''I'm full of goodness, I just haven't used any of it''. I love that extra bit between the two.

[hursty]

Should have just left it all in.

I think I'm gonna make Hurst Cut II - anyone volounteering to do it for me?

[Knight]

Yea,they should have. They are wonderful scenes and to heck with the running time. Longer the better!

Good look with Hurst Cut II

[hursty]

Exactly

I have not seen the theatrical of STM in over a decade.

I love all the extra footage, especially the 'babies'