atp
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Post by atp on Mar 31, 2012 8:17:06 GMT -5
As an aside... has anyone heard what Thau's reaction has been or has he disappeared off the face of the earth since the RDC?  That's only his last name. He likes to be called Mr Thau... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 31, 2012 13:58:40 GMT -5
And I would have liked a decent cut of SII that didn't butcher Donner's material almost as bad as Lester did....  Guess Thau and I both can't get what what we want... |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Mar 31, 2012 16:52:12 GMT -5
Please don't misunderstand me Boosh. I'm not trying to knock at what you've done, or what any of us do. Like you I am very happy with the things I've learned in this hobby of ours. When I say fruitless I don't mean within our circle, or even for people that we invite into it (showing friends and family a fan cut of a movie). We all admire and appreciate the magic we're able to create with our tools and imagination here. I'm VERY proud of what I've created, and what all of you have created as well. More-so than studio released films.
Nor do I think validation is needed from WB directly. What I mean is, hundreds of years from now, people will still have to choose between the 2 versions available now, and be disappointed either way. Sel wants there to be a new version that puts both official versions to shame, and to rest.
It's a much bigger picture he's looking at. He has a vision that someday no one will nitpick or joke about things like the cellophane S, the amnesia kiss, or in the DC case, bad editing, bad takes, overused music, horrible special effects, and re-using the ending from the first film. He wants there to be only 1 version, the best version (or at least a version that's better than the other 2). And in that context, fan-editing looks like nothing more than a waste of time for the 99.9% of people who don't share in our vision.
I still like to think that, maybe if someone who has control of things hears about all the fan cuts that have been made over the years since the Donner Cuts release, maybe they'll give the film another chance. However, I'm sure George Lucas is aware of all the fan cuts of the prequels (and believe me there's A LOT), and he probably doesn't care either way.
Then again, there was a lot of buzz going when that actor (whose name I cant remember) did a fan cut that combined all 3 prequels into one 85 minute film.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 31, 2012 19:07:54 GMT -5
Hopefully people and blu-ray will still be around a hundred years from now (sorry, I'm a bit of a pessimist)..... But.... I agree.... it would be nice that people who don't scour the web for fan cuts would be able to look up a third 'official' version that's better than the flaws of both current official SII cuts. IRC! |
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Post by booshman on Apr 1, 2012 0:26:21 GMT -5
Please don't misunderstand me Boosh. I'm not trying to knock at what you've done, or what any of us do. Like you I am very happy with the things I've learned in this hobby of ours. When I say fruitless I don't mean within our circle, or even for people that we invite into it (showing friends and family a fan cut of a movie). We all admire and appreciate the magic we're able to create with our tools and imagination here. I'm VERY proud of what I've created, and what all of you have created as well. More-so than studio released films. Nor do I think validation is needed from WB directly. What I mean is, hundreds of years from now, people will still have to choose between the 2 versions available now, and be disappointed either way. Sel wants there to be a new version that puts both official versions to shame, and to rest. It's a much bigger picture he's looking at. He has a vision that someday no one will nitpick or joke about things like the cellophane S, the amnesia kiss, or in the DC case, bad editing, bad takes, overused music, horrible special effects, and re-using the ending from the first film. He wants there to be only 1 version, the best version (or at least a version that's better than the other 2). And in that context, fan-editing looks like nothing more than a waste of time for the 99.9% of people who don't share in our vision. I still like to think that, maybe if someone who has control of things hears about all the fan cuts that have been made over the years since the Donner Cuts release, maybe they'll give the film another chance. However, I'm sure George Lucas is aware of all the fan cuts of the prequels (and believe me there's A LOT), and he probably doesn't care either way. Then again, there was a lot of buzz going when that actor (whose name I cant remember) did a fan cut that combined all 3 prequels into one 85 minute film. I know you're not having a pop at me or other editors You mention wanting a verison no-one will nit-pick, but as far as I see the only people who nit-pick this movie are right here. There's one thing I'm sure of and that is you can't please everyone. However good a new official version is, whether it's done by Sel or WB on their own or whatever. What would be the first thing to happen when it was released? There would be a load of people writing their cut lists for a fanedit, myself included no doubt. There is never going to be a version to suit everyone and a newer better cut, if it get's new footage released, will be a great thing for us who care, but I don't really think the masses give a shit. The majority of casual viewers see STM as a kids film, so even if you get SII up to that standard, who ultimately will care? In hundreds of years time do you think people are going to be storing entertainment on discs? Bought from stores? If anyone is even around in a few hundred years, everything will be digital download, or some yet unknown upgrade to that. So if you never have any physical media, what's the difference between a film edited by a studio, and one edited by a fan? The technology is available now for fans to make versions of films with comparible quality to studio releases. The only difference being that the studio has access to all the original uncut materials. I'm sure in a few hundred years you could run a simulation of whatever your perfect version of any fim would be, so what purpose official versions would serve then I don't know. If Sel wants to do a cut for the ages, then I think it's an honourable but ultimately pointless effort. Personally I want Superman II while I'm young and I can get down and boogie, boogie boogie. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 1, 2012 18:08:08 GMT -5
If anyone is even around in a few hundred years, everything will be digital download, or some yet unknown upgrade to that. So if you never have any physical media, what's the difference between a film edited by a studio, and one edited by a fan? A thought such as that makes me actually wonder if the days of Hollywood are almost up. When you look at how films are marketed now (movies made to appeal to all audiences, stocked to death with advertisements within the film itself), as well as how it's harder to make original films (prequels, sequels, and movies based on freaking BOARD GAMES now), and how smaller budgets are put into films now in general, it does make you think doesn't it? |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 1, 2012 20:23:41 GMT -5
The big budgeted films certainly seem in danger...not of disappearing, but less movies having them---- The recent "Green Lantern" and "John Carter" boxoffice flops I'm sure doesn't help things. Even Matthew Vaughn jumped in asap for "X-men:First Class" with saying that he felt that the window of time for megabudgeted superhero movies were getting thinner--- 3d hasn't been the savior of movie boxoffice as was hoped, and people don't seem to need to be buying dvds nearly as much as was before (too many other options, apparently--- hulu/etc.). Anyhow... I just hope that MOS doesn't end up getting its budget slashed at the last second SIV-style....  |
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Post by Jimbo on Apr 2, 2012 0:59:24 GMT -5
Anyhow... I just hope that MOS doesn't end up getting its budget slashed at the last second SIV-style.... MOS is in post-production. The money is already spent. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 2, 2012 9:35:07 GMT -5
MOS is in post-production. The money is already spent. Does post-production mean the editing is done? Cuz Thau has shown us that the editing process is just as an important part of the film-making process as the shooting. Also, how about the budget for marketing? Personally I think WB would be smart to NOT release the film in 3D. It'd be a waste of money. Also because I'd like to see a big-name, big-budget film say NO to 3D. Let's let it disappear already. |
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matt
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Post by matt on Apr 2, 2012 11:50:35 GMT -5
IMO Selutron if he wants his vision seen he should just use the blu rays and be done with it. This idea that WB would green light it will never happen if it did by all the time legal stuff would ever clear no one would care.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2012 12:21:24 GMT -5
TDKR said 'No' to it, I believe. I don't mind 3d as an option, but it's rarely been a case where the experience was so fantastic it was worth the extra bucks....I know movie theatres are in trouble, but so they thought a new trick like 3d would make more money. To me, theatres that allow idiots with their iphones to lighting up in the middle of movies to text is the main killer of people not wanting to pay to go to the movies....not the absence of new tricks.  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Apr 2, 2012 17:43:24 GMT -5
bottom line: RDC happened not only because of the fan clamor (which no longer exists this time around), but also because SR borrowed so heavily on the Donnerverse. MOS is now its own thing, and the Donnerverse is toast. yes, the ENTIRE campaign for "superman returns" was an appeal to the constant petitioning from fans to restore donner's S2, and to avoid the dreadful near-misses that we almost had with tim burton and jj abrams. " hey kids! we're gonna do donner's S2! ..and we're gonna pretend SIII and SIV never happened! "since S2 was mishandled, and SR was underwhelming WB/DC has almost no incentive to do anything else with it. the future of superman on film is in snyder's hands. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 2, 2012 18:49:06 GMT -5
Capedwonder.com just posted some of Selutron's videos on their youtube page in better quality. So far 5 videos out of the 9 he created are up (including the Concord scene edit, which wasn't on CW's site). Between his recent exclusive with them, and now him allowing them to re-post his stuff on youtbe (where it can get the biggest possible audience on the internet), I'd like to think that something is brewing. One of the comments on the videos on CW's facebook page had someone saying Sel should show his work to WB, and CW responded with "In time". Now, I know it's still wishful thinking, but I'd like to think that the light at the end of the tunnel just got a little bit brighter for me (and all of us who support him, or support the idea for another official version of the film).
Maybe since the new Snyder film is going to take Superman on screen in a completely new direction, perhaps Sel has reconsidered on simply doing a fancut. Or maybe Sel IS going to do something with WB and hasn't told us. Which is why he doesn't speak publicly on this forum. Either way, seeing these videos in better quality is a real treat. Almsot makes me wanna do a quick re-do of my current draft and put in these new versions so that the quality is much better. Gotta admit, after switching from the old tube tv to a new HD tv, the old 240 quicktime videos of Sel's work look HORRIBLE in my cut lol.
I'm hoping enough people on youtube see his videos and get people interested again. Just remember what we all accomplished for Superman 2 in the years before the internet and youtube. Imagine what fan interest can do nowadays since Hollywood knows that the internet has a voice, and they actually listen to it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2012 20:49:17 GMT -5
It is nice to see the stuff in higher res, for sure. I think the thing that keeps wholehearted support from all quarters is pure skepticism with different factors this time around that are just giant unknowns---
With the SII Donner cut, the two big 'ifs' were: (1) whether or not the Brando stuff COULD be cleared, and (2) if all the Donner footage could actually be located/restored. (Who knew that the editing would be the real villain of the piece)
If WB has told Selutron that the Swarm footage (or whatever else was used) is totally fine and taken care of, and that there was no problem with Donner giving his blessing--- and that it's purely do to enough fan support, that's one thing.
But, because of so few details, it FEELS more like a pipe dream, being on the outside of it and because there's the giant question of whether or not Selutron is just asking for the right to re-edit what's already in the vaults over Thau, or if he needs/wants it to be the reconstructed/fabricated fx version only....
No matter what, I want a new better cut that restores the missing elements that were badly botched/cut out by Thau from SII.
If, on the other hand, there was question on whether or not the STM IRC would get funding with physical restoration being done...... it feels slightly more likely because it's just cleaning up something that apparently had its rights cleared all the way around.
Anyhow, I hope that ideally we get all three: STM IRC & SII IRC in widescreen HD, plus a new recut of Donner's SII from original elements... but if the Selutron cut is the most economically feasible and WB gives a 'yes', its far better than nothing new offered....
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Post by booshman on Apr 2, 2012 23:30:09 GMT -5
It is nice to see the stuff in higher res, for sure. I think the thing that keeps wholehearted support from all quarters is pure skepticism with different factors this time around that are just giant unknowns--- But, because of so few details, it FEELS more like a pipe dream, One of the main unknowns being Sel himself. I think it's cool he got to show his stuff to Mank, and that Gandy and Jim Bowers are behind him. But to the rest of us he's a bit of an enigma, and he's also been of the radar for a long time. We've never really a direct communication with him, other than a few statements, and know little else other than the clips we've seen and that he wants to do this with WB. I'm just wondering what qualifies Sel to be the guy to do this, if he is allowed to at all? If it ever did happen again, it's going to be that last time it happens, and I want the person doing it to have solid credentials, and I don't think the clips posted so far are enough. Six years ago Donner said that Thau was the best guy for the job, and look how that that turned out. I'm a real skeptic, and would love nothing more than to be proved wrong, but until I hear something more concrete I won't be getting my hopes up too much. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 3, 2012 1:04:18 GMT -5
Agreed. The clips are nice, but I've never heard of ANY official movie that let someone repurpose footage from another movie to the point of rotoscoping and compositing them in.... I've seen 2nd unit footage licensed out to 'straight to dvd or less' movies.... but that's about it. As clever and as much as I REALLY enjoyed seeing the Swarm movie blended in, that's one biggie that I think would be tough to overcome. Does WB have the rights to hack up and re-edit any movie from their film library and mash them up? It's true that "The Swarm" was considered a GIANT flop in its day, and maybe the folks in it don't mind, but...... it's not a small thing for WB to just assume, I would think. Look at all the hassles to get Brando back in, and he was OFFICIALLY part of SII. Unless.... the clips are just a 'sampler' for show and nothing else, as an audition of sorts. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 3, 2012 7:52:00 GMT -5
If it ever did happen again, it's going to be that last time it happens, and I want the person doing it to have solid credentials, and I don't think the clips posted so far are enough Normally I disagree with you Boosh, but you were able to do the crystal chamber in the DC Lex at the FOS scene the same way Sel did. So since you've proven to me that Sel isn't the ONLY person capable of the job, I'm not gonna try and defend Sel as some sort of fan edit god lol. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 3, 2012 7:57:20 GMT -5
Unless.... the clips are just a 'sampler' for show and nothing else, as an audition of sorts. That's exactly what it is CAM. In one of his earlier interviews back in 07', Sel specifically said that these clips were nothing more than to showcase what can be achieved. I'm pretty sure he also said that none of these clips would be appear in his proposed cut. At least, not exactly as they were presented anyway. And with the new blu-ray editions available in better quality, I wouldn't want them to be. As for your thoughts on using footage from other films, this is why as much as I love the idea I came up with for Superman flying over the water and creating those big waves, in the end the shot is still from a different film. Though granted, I'd rather see it done in a similar fashion, but done in AE. heck, even a different version with maybe clouds moving from Supes' super speed would work for me. |
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Post by booshman on Apr 3, 2012 9:14:16 GMT -5
If it ever did happen again, it's going to be that last time it happens, and I want the person doing it to have solid credentials, and I don't think the clips posted so far are enough Normally I disagree with you Boosh, but you were able to do the crystal chamber in the DC Lex at the FOS scene the same way Sel did. So since you've proven to me that Sel isn't the ONLY person capable of the job, I'm not gonna try and defend Sel as some sort of fan edit god lol. That's the thing, even if he was a renowned faneditor, with a string of edits to his credit, he would used to working with limited available material. Also, when working on your own you've got as long as you need to create what you want. So to go from that to working to a deadline, having all the uncut footage available, and co-ordinating a group of others to get the thing completed is quite a jump. The project was too big for Michael Thau as it would be for a lot of people. Sel is an unknown quantity barring a handful of clips, I'd prefer someone with more of a proven track record at the helm. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 3, 2012 11:24:15 GMT -5
I agree with Tyler and Booshman... but for me, it's not just the environment that brings up some question- Thau had "Dawson's Creek" to his resume and was Stuart Baird's assistant for the longest time--- whereas with 'Selutron' (does he really need an alias? What, is he Batman or something?) --- he's a 'professional editor', but that label alone can mean a few things. I was editing videoconferences and other multimedia presentations for a living for awhile. Does that mean I was a professional editor, too? (Technically, yeah, but you get my meaning) If push came to shove, there's still continuity editing errors that seem to crop up even in looking at the samples, if everyone is supposed to vote for this guy as THE guy to solve the editing horror of SII. The 'Honeymoon Haven' portion: In looking outside the window, when Lois/Clark open the drapes- while it is a set, we see the light come through the drapes- no window grill. On the image that Selutron chose for the exterior shot- a window grids everywhere. Could have been fixed for continuity. 'Home movies'--- is the crystal in front of him slightly to his right or to his left. The 180 degree shot moves the crystal to the whole other side. The 'Repowering Beginning'--- which direction is Reeve facing anyways when he turns? It's pretty unclear for professional editing. Geography again is funky in the 'Home Movies' where Selutron breaks the '180 rule' of editing- (which isn't a big offense unless its jarring, to me it is) where the Crystal is on the right side of Supes- then in the reverse angle shot, it's still on the right side, when it should be on the left. The rotoscoping is great, but there are bits here and there that peek out in the higher res that could use fixing. Again, hopefully it's just a test. Still....no matter what, the clips are impressive overall - some great work that gets one excited about the possibilities. But I'm not sold that he alone should be the guy to supervise the editing, since we ONLY have the clips to go on. It's great for him that he got support from Mank, Gandy, and Jim Bowers--- but..... I still see some big errors on the editing samples to just say, 'use THIS guy only'. |
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Post by booshman on Apr 3, 2012 11:45:00 GMT -5
Sounds like you agree with me too. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 3, 2012 11:46:47 GMT -5
See my edit. |
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 27, 2013 16:54:34 GMT -5
Any news?
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 27, 2013 16:55:01 GMT -5
Any news?
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 27, 2013 16:55:18 GMT -5
Any news?
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