Elephant in th room:Predictions on MOS vs. Avenger

[crazy_asian_man]

IMO, WB played it completely safe with GL. Story was tried and tested formula.

I disagree about the problem with GL.... while I'm not at all against something new that works- to me, if it's executed well, I'm personally fine with old traditional forms---

For example- John Carter (and the equally underrated Rocketeer years ago) was a tried and tested formula with familiar archetypes (though to be fair, JC came first in the books, but looked like a derivative ripoff because so many scifi movies borrowed from it), but was still a (*edit: creatively, not financially) successful movie with likeable characters. Didn't have a lot of suprises, but it was an enjoyable old-fashioned story.... I would have forgiven GL if it was that- but to me, the main characters were so unlikeable by design, that I just was never really rooting for them. (If anything, Hector Hammond's outcast character was far more interesting in the beginning and sympathetic than Ryan Reynold's Hal Jordan.... not a good sign!)

GL--- had a character that was a jerk but never really redeemed himself nor had the level of charm Robert Downey Jr. had, where he could be a bit of a cad, but you still sense a good guy underneath. Especially the part (in this economy) where he costs a ton of coworkers their jobs, but doesn't blink an eye or shed a tear. Found myself wincing at that part, maybe because of the state of the real world.

In any case- we both definitely agree.... GL was not a 'win' creatively by any means.

I think they also played it too safe with Superman Returns (far easier to cast a Reeve-a-like)

That part I TOTALLY disagree on. FAR easier (and less risky in a way) to recast without trying to emulate Reeve, imo. The part where I think Singer should have gone more on a limb on, is (and even he's mentioned it) introducing an additional new villain or even swapping out Luthor for Brainiac, instead of waiting for the sequel. He coulda/shoulda been bolder in that....

I'd think that it was NOT an easy task to find a Reeve-a-like. Just how many Reeve lookalikes are there that can act in the world? Routh was ok, but definitely good enough for the story Singer was trying to tell.

Now, I hope that Cavill rocks in the role, but I'll continue to feel that doing a quasi sequel that made any sense was a far harder path to go on, on all levels, than wiping the slate clean and starting from scratch....

But, we'll see.... very curious where we all land on the SR vs. MOS inevitable debate once the movie actually comes out. I hope to love the new film, hope that Snyder redeems himself for all the bad films he's done, hope that Nolan becomes the 'quality guaranteed' factor.... a lotta hope I'm putting on this new film, but little trust, sadly...

[Metallo]

GL's problem wasn't so much the traditional story just that they had nothing to offer beyond that and the traditional origin story was so poorly handled. The execution was just mediocre across the board.

Captain America didn't reinvent the wheel (metaphorically speaking) but it did such a good job with the story it told.

I felt bad for John Carter. It was actually pretty good (not great but good) but like you said CAM everything from Avatar to Planet Hulk has ripped it off over the years to the point that it didn't have much new to offer. Between that and a piss poor marketing campaign The film really got a raw deal.

Why isn't Lynn Collins playing Wonder Woman? I didn't even realize she was the same chick from Wolverine. She played Silverfox.

[Deleted]

HOLY FUCK.

YES.

She is PERFECT for Diana. Damn. Wonderful call. She's fucking GORGEOUS.

[crazy_asian_man]

YES.

She is PERFECT for Diana. Damn. Wonderful call. She's fucking GORGEOUS.

Lynn Collins is amazing--- she's the center of "John Carter" as far as I'm concerned. Funny thing is, in her interviews, she really is nothing like Dejah Thoris- so, she really is a great actress.

Still...
As awful as the "Wonder Woman" pilot was, I didn't think that Adrianne Padalecki did a bad job at all as her.

I'd be fine with either one cast, but with the studios' feeling that there's no way a woman can lead a superhero film & make a profit.... I doubt we'll ever see a "Wonder Woman" live action film for a LOOONG time.... (In fact, even for the animated films, "Superman/Batman 'Apocalypse' was originally called 'Supergirl' until they saw the disappointing sales with "Wonder Woman"--- *sigh*)

Look at "Avengers" with the Black Widow- there's NO plans for her to get a movie, either! (and both "Iron Man 2" and "Avengers" were/are both box office successes!)

[Deleted]

Well....I mean....would YOU see a Black Widow movie? With JUST her as the hero?

I sure as shit wouldn't.

[booshman]

Got to disagree about Lynn Collins. I've only seen her in two films, (Wolverine and John Carter) I didn't believe her in either of them. Saying that though, with a better director and script maybe I could be proved wrong. Her IMDB says she went to the Julliard. If I went by their performances in John Carter I wouldn't think very highly of James Purefoy, Dominic West or Ciarán Hinds, and I know they can be great when given the opportunity.

[crazy_asian_man]

Well....I mean....would YOU see a Black Widow movie? With JUST her as the hero?

I sure as shit wouldn't.

Not with Scarlett Johanssen, for sure. She's INCREDIBLY miscast for Black Widow- but Joss Whedon made her look as good as she possibly could, given that- her relationship with Hawkeye made her seem far more 'Black Widow' than the awful way she was used in "Iron Man 2".

But--- if Emily Blunt (the original actress chosen) was Black Widow, and the Black Widow actually had a Russian accent (which Johanssen apparently can't pull off) and was written better? So long as it was written well & Blunt was cast, sure, I'd go see it.

With Johanssen, though? Nah. She's ok in Avengers, but still by far not the right actress to play the Black Widow. Black Widow should be charismatic, intriguing, and full of layers. Johanssen doesn't give that off at all. She might be fine for some other Marvel character (Dazzler?), but unless she pulls an Ed Norton, we're stuck with her as Widow for the foreseeable future....

[Metallo]

Scarlett Johansson was a LOT better as The Black Widow in Avengers than she was in Iron Man II. I still don't think she was the perfect choice but she was better than Jessica Alba as Sue Storm or even Jennifer Garner as Elektra (who wasn't terrible but like Scarlett somewhat miscast even though she seemed more athletic than Johansson). Scarlett had a better writer and scrip to help with the character this time around.

But I just can't see the Black Widow carrying her own movie. She's always been a great supporting character going all the way back to Iron Man in the 60's but never the star. It'd be like sticking the Baroness in her own movie. There's just not enough material there and what is there has been done to death by other movies. La Femme Nikita and the Long Kiss Goodnight already mined a lot of the same sh** years ago.

The Widow would probably work better in a series now that I think about it. But on film she works better in a SHIELD movie IMO. IF they gave her her own movie they'd have to keep the budget below $75 mil.

[crazy_asian_man]

But I just can't see the Black Widow carrying her own movie. She's always been a great supporting character going all the way back to Iron Man in the 60's but never the star. It'd be like sticking the Baroness in her own movie. There's just not enough material there and what is there has been done to death by other movies. La Femme Nikita and the Long Kiss Goodnight already mined a lot of the same sh** years ago.

Actually, I couldn't envision one for sure with her that would work....until you mentioned what was done with La Femme Nikita & Long Kiss Goodnight! If you had Shane Black write & Luc Besson (or Donner) direct, I COULD see a great Black Widow movie happening! ....but not necessarily with Scarlet. (Sorry Scarlet...)

[Metallo]

I think it could possibly work but it would have to be a much stronger take on the character closer to the comic book and with a stronger more physically capable actress. Whedon certainly knows how to write and showcase strong women. I think he's one reason the character came off better in Avengers.

Haywire is a prime example of the problems a Black Widow movie would face in being a success.

A Black Widow movie would also have to be done on a moderate budget. Elektra didn't work out but the Underworld and Resident Evil films are fronted by women so its not impossible just a really hard puzzle to figure out. Those films were made on small enough budgets to turn a profit so thats one thing that has to be kept in mind.

[Rod]

scarlet looked much much better in the avengers. the fights were cool. she is a good actress and a damn fine sugar walls for sure. but she still looks a explosive hot teen for me, not a bad ass killer russian.

the only scene i didnt like in the movie was hers. when she jump from the alien ship. that was forced...

[Tristan D]

One things for sure: with all this love for Avengers Assemble bandying around, I am not letting people slag off Superman for being unrealistic when the other side thought they could get away with a flying aircraft carrier.

[Metallo]

I think the new hairstyle helped Johansson looks out a lot and was totally in keeping with the changing look of the character over the years. I always thought Black Widow looked better with shorter hair.

As For Superman if anything the films should be somewhat fantastical. Superman presence opens that door. I enjoy a more real world setting like STM/SR but there can be other things in that world that are amazing besides him.

[atp]

Avengers ftw