atp
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Post by atp on Sept 8, 2012 6:09:33 GMT -5
I already loved the deleted "Return to Krypton" scene, but some guy has made it even better by adding John Williams music from STM.
The music fits perfectly -- particularly when we see the big "S" symbol on Krypton.
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Shane
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Post by Shane on Sept 8, 2012 6:26:53 GMT -5
nice find atp
sure am gonna miss that music in mos
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Sept 8, 2012 9:40:08 GMT -5
I may not like this movie, but I have to say that choosing to introduce audiences to a new Superman by showing him weak and helpless, falling over an old lady, dimly lit where we can't really see him to begin with, instead of opening with this scene, was a GRAVE mistake.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 8, 2012 9:57:30 GMT -5
Stupid, boring opening. The planet exploded millions of years previously, what did he expect to find? Plus it goes on forever. Fits in with the rest of the film I suppose.
"That place was a graveyard!"
Yeah, no shit, Sherlock.
Is Superman Returns more boring than Phantom Menace? Probably about the same.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 8, 2012 10:12:54 GMT -5
Wow- awesome find ATP!
It is amazing what was able to be done--- if only the RDC had such good matching with their music cues!
I love enough of the movie that it's on my list as one of the best superhero films--- but, yeah, I agree about taking out the RTK scene as a hugely bad idea. Its like taking away the opening spaceship battle scene in Star Wars ANH.
In both cases, maybe both films work without that 'zing' in the beginning, but in watching a fan cut with it reinserted.... wow, what a difference to have that back in.
Not just in SR's case, but I often wonder how/why so many movies that don't need extended cuts get them on dvd, but those that could really use them (SR, Xmen) don't have them happen.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 8, 2012 10:24:00 GMT -5
SR was primarily a drama, with superhero elements blended into it.*
Rather than an action or adventure film with dramatic parts in it.
Was not suprised that it didn't appeal to everyone. I was 'wowed' on first viewing by how good it was, but at the same time, already thought 'this is not going to appeal to everyone' right away.
If nothing else, I thought Singer should have gotten credit for doing a unique superhero film that was more than about just throwing punches or special effects (Looking at you, "Amazing SPiderman"). Cashing in on easy choices? Not even.
Having said that, in looking at it again, it didn't bother the first time, but in repeated viewings, there are sequences that could have been trimmed down, for sure that affect its pacing.
*Whereas Phantom Menace was about how wonderful JarJar Binks was. (in Lucas' mind).
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 8, 2012 11:44:18 GMT -5
Low budget first 2 seasons of AOS in the 1950s did it far better. Then again, they used original stories.
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 8, 2012 17:04:52 GMT -5
I really think Routh looks the best in that deleted scene.
His face resembles Reeve a lot in that scene. He looks more mature and chiselled there than he does in the rest of the movie.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 9, 2012 3:24:48 GMT -5
First, it's a different animal from a different time.
If you're suggesting SR isn't original, I couldn't disagree more. I wouldn't say that it's entirely (some would say not at all) successful as a self-contained story... but it's hard to be completely objective, given how many times I've seen the Reeve films prior to.
If someone had never watched one of the Reeve movies and watched SR from scratch, that person would probably have the more objective view on whether or not it's successful as a standalone original film.
What was original to me?
#1: The idea (that some hated, I loved) of Superman deciding to leave to see if there were any survivors of Krypton, once evidence was shown that it may still have existed. Some thought it was out of character for him to do so, but I don't see that it did. If anything, it made the character feel more human and real to me.
#2: The idea of Superman having a kid- but not necessarily being able to be with that son free and clear, without destroying an existing relationship. It's a far more adult story than comic fans and movie fans could handle (or some of those would find interesting), and on paper, this could have sucked, but I was amazed at how well Singer and company was able to make this play out.
#3: The way that the screenwriters were able to connect STM/SII (which came out decades ago) and somehow try to bridge the gap in spirit between that time and a movie that took place in present day (for the most part).
I've always said that there were a few missteps that were taken in the film, being an unoriginal story wasn't one of them imo. By far this wasn't a 'quick hack job' nor 'just a ripoff'.... love it or hate it, Singer made choices that upset some Superman fans (one of my best friends was almost in a rage because Superman had a son and felt it was just wrong on all levels), but I don't get how fans can accuse SR of not having new ideas. It was made as a continuation--- but the 'quasi' continuation I'll admit was a bit of a flawed concept, but not a deal-killer for the film.
Well.... doesn't matter. People's opinions are going to be split for SR probably for all time. So it goes. Curious how MOS will either have everyone on board or more split in 2013....
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 9, 2012 4:07:03 GMT -5
Curious how MOS will either have everyone on board or more split in 2013.... I wonder how long it will take for fan-editors to insert John Williams' music into MOS... |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Sept 9, 2012 7:03:27 GMT -5
I wonder how long it will take for fan-editors to insert John Williams' music into MOS... Considering there's a fan-edit of Batman Forever that has the Danny Elfman music put back in, probably not very long, lol. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 9, 2012 10:28:22 GMT -5
I wonder how long it will take for fan-editors to insert Christopher Reeve into MOS.  |
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Post by starchild on Sept 9, 2012 11:12:58 GMT -5
Imagine a Superman Movie without John Williams Music.
To me, that is heresy in my opinion.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 9, 2012 12:17:16 GMT -5
Considering that- suprisingly- Jerry Goldsmith was the alternating composer.... Goldsmith at the time was the only other movie music composer that could have given Williams a run for his money.
Though, I would have to say that his 'Supergirl' composition is nice, but hardly memorable. Still..... if Goldsmith had done STM instead of Williams, it's still fun to muse what he could have come up with....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 12:20:29 GMT -5
I can totally imagine a Superman movie without Williams' score. Especially when the light, fun, jaunty score doesn't fit what's happening on screen whatsoever and doesn't match the tone of the movie or the character.
Let it go.
Repeat after me...just let it go...
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Sept 9, 2012 13:00:34 GMT -5
Yea, Superman was around before the Williams' theme and works well without it. Be it the old animation, Lois and Clark, Superboy etc.
I hope Zimmer writes something pretty special for it though.
Neat clip by the way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 13:14:48 GMT -5
I have total faith that Zimmer or one of his cronies will create something extraordinary for us. It'll probably be minimalist, it sorta has to be, but even if it's not...I know it'll be great.
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 9, 2012 13:33:59 GMT -5
I can totally imagine a Superman movie without Williams' score. Especially when the light, fun, jaunty score doesn't fit what's happening on screen whatsoever and doesn't match the tone of the movie or the character. . Thing is, any Superman movie where the Williams theme wouldn't fit doesn't actually deserve to be a Superman movie. If the tone of the movie or character are incongruous with the Williams music, that means it's not Superman. It's just Batman or X-Men with a different costume. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 13:56:03 GMT -5
I can totally imagine a Superman movie without Williams' score. Especially when the light, fun, jaunty score doesn't fit what's happening on screen whatsoever and doesn't match the tone of the movie or the character. . Thing is, any Superman movie where the Williams theme wouldn't fit doesn't actually deserve to be a Superman movie. If the tone of the movie or character are incongruous with the Williams music, that means it's not Superman. It's just Batman or X-Men with a different costume.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 10, 2012 10:43:29 GMT -5
What's interesting to me is that the "All-star Superman" animated film chose NOT to have music too similiar to the Williams theme so that it wouldn't recall the Donner films..... but it's an odd situation if you ask me.
With the Batman films, (even the bad ones) it always felt like something was missing to me if it didn't have Elfman's powerful theme....
...UNTIL Batman Begins -where Zimmer's theme felt equal, but in a different way. However, I don't think it was Zimmer's theme alone. I think it was the timing of a very fresh (and better imo) approach to the Batman films.
Both Williams' and Elfman's themes seem like incredibly strong pieces of music that would work regardless if attached to anything or not.
If Zimmer and Snyder both deliver, then I think it could be a parallel (though I'm not ready to say equal) to Williams just as Zimmer's is parallel to Elfman's.
Ideally, would have been great to just take out a blank paycheck and have had Williams challenge himself by doing a completely different score for Superman in '2012--- but, I'm fine with ZImmer myself.
I just am still annoyed by no red trunks. To me, Superman's uniform is like a country's flag design. Superman isn't the Xmen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 11:37:39 GMT -5
Well, seeing as there are so many Superman movies without the Williams theme to make a proper statement like that, sure, that makes sense, but...
...oh wait.
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Sept 10, 2012 18:19:54 GMT -5
"Thing is, any future incarnation of Batman where the TV theme wouldn't fit will be complete crap, mark my words."
- Some guy in the 60's
How true that proved to be.
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Sept 10, 2012 20:39:12 GMT -5
"Wait, Goldsmith's not doing the sequel? Lame. That theme IS Star Trek, no one could ever come up with something as good."
-Some guy in 1982
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 10, 2012 20:47:15 GMT -5
"Wait, Cameron's not doing Terminator 3? Cameron IS The Terminator, no one could come up with something as good."
- Everyone
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Sept 10, 2012 21:29:36 GMT -5
You're not helping. ;D
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