I blame SR and Smallville...

[ye5man]

...for this shit

[crazy_asian_man]

As much as I love what SR did, I admit I enjoyed this...

[monkeymagic]

Sad to say, but there is an element of truth to this.

[crazy_asian_man]

I think it's funny, but it's a real exaggeration of how the character is portrayed in SR. He's not in a funk ALL the time during the film- also, I don't see why a superhero film can't have an existential angle to it now and then-

Do all superhero films have to be superficial and not challenge them by stretching themselves by trying to go deeper with the characterizations?

I know I often bash Smallville, but it's not because of the moodiness or introvertedness of the character--- but because the character never really evolves (if at all) , especially with the ten years they had at their disposal.

At least SR tried to advance and transition the character from smiley happy guy to more mature protector of earth--- steps towards making him become the guy who would end up as the Superman we see in "Kingdom Come"....

I feel at times that Hollywood is right- that audiences have difficulty handling a hero that questions himself at all- that it's better to have a two-dimensional one . To me, in some ways Superman was 'marvelized' in SR in that we got to see some of the other sides to his character than just the one that's a bit one-dimensional in the comic.

Anyhow..... sorry for the rant. It's just frustration that I feel I see something in the film special that I feel gets overlooked.

[ye5man]

Jun 2, 2013 13:32:02 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Do all superhero films have to be superficial and not challenge them by stretching themselves by trying to go deeper with the characterizations?

Deeper characterisations doesn't necessarily mean downbeat though.

I feel at times that Hollywood is right- that audiences have difficulty handling a hero that questions himself at all

Incorrect. Audiences CAN - but its difficult to sit through such a boring film! At least mix it with humour and action. SR had very little.

I used to think SIII was criminal with it wasting its resources - but SR easily has it beat.

[crazy_asian_man]

Deeper characterisations doesn't necessarily mean downbeat though.

Trek II: Wrath of Khan had Kirk start off downbeat- with him facing a mid-life crisis, and many (including myself) consider it one of the best Trek Classic crew films-

Star Trek: First Contact had the Captain start off a bit traumatized and having nightmares with his experiences with the Borg- but then again.....

At least mix it with humour and action. SR had very little.

I'll meet you halfway. They could have/should have pumped up the action or shown Supes in other modes outside of his inner struggles.

There's a little bit of that with the montage on the tv sets of him around the world, but it's only a few seconds and I agree that there could have been more of a mix, if one was going to have the hero contemplate his loneliness and weight of the world on his shoulders.

[ye5man]

Jun 2, 2013 14:46:48 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Trek II: Wrath of Khan had Kirk start off downbeat- with him facing a mid-life crisis, and many (including myself) consider it one of the best Trek Classic crew films-

Maybe because it was just an awesome film.

[atp]

Routh should have turned down the SR role and held out until MoS.

[Deleted]

Oh for Christ's sake, it's not like those versions of the character were the first ever attempts at the character being explored beyond his powers. Byrne's "Man of Steel" did the same thing nearly 20 years before "Superman Returns" or "Smallville."

I could argue that Wonder Woman is a violent, right-wing, war-mongering cunt, who attacks without thinking.

[crazy_asian_man]

Maybe because it was just an awesome film.

Ahh....yes it was! You have good taste, sir!
Why can't we agree on SR, then?

[crazy_asian_man]

Oh for Christ's sake, it's not like those versions of the character were the first ever attempts at the character being explored beyond his powers. Byrne's "Man of Steel" did the same thing nearly 20 years before "Superman Returns" or "Smallville."

I was there for that, and the revitalization with the 'weakened' Superman in the 60's comics too----Byrne's run was fun, and he probably did the most you could do with restrictions, but I don't know how deep those issues really ran--- I can't say I've read ALL the Superman comics, but I have done good bits in many decades (and reprints from different eras) with the decades of comics, most of the time the only real character bits came with the standalone 'imaginary' stories (labeled such usually on the first page for awhile, until it became 'elseworlds') ---

Since most comics are like soap operas and always want things to stay on the 'status quo' at a certain point (as opposed to aging them or having characters die without being resurrected or rebooted)- Superman comics never really seem to break out of a certain mold at a certain point, that always bugged me that the comics' companies couldn't commit to a certain beginning, middle, and ending for a character and give it a good solid 5-10 year run.

So--- I want something bigger and bolder than what the comics can offer- SR under-delivered with the superhero action, but I thought gave a lot on the drama side and rather than have a memory kiss to wipe everything out, take some creative chances that could have great payoffs storywise.... without an easy happy ending, and more closely mirror some things in the real world. (dramatically at least- i didn't like the homebound villain aspect of most of the movies)

Also- since we're at a time now that we know that superhero films will probably only get backed with a specific actor for 3-4 films (or 6 in Marvel's cases because they have their act together)---- and there are 'trilogies'- I was glad to see Superman really take on the role of father in an interesting way (well, to me, anyways)- and heighten the danger level with the extra characters.

[ye5man]

Oh for Christ's sake, it's not like those versions of the character were the first ever attempts at the character being explored beyond his powers.

Yeah but those versions were not filled with angst.

I reckon MOS will present a more balanced version. Mix it up with some fun and excitement.

I was glad to see Superman really take on the role of father in an interesting way

Apart from regurgitating STM dialogue, I am not sure how he took on this role

[crazy_asian_man]

Apart from regurgitating STM dialogue, I am not sure how he took on this role

Well, they committed to it storywise. They didn't have a memory kiss or reverse time or amnesia (looking at you, Smallville!) so that any real progression of Lois and Supes didn't have a weak 'reset' button so that some things never happened and never advanced.

Some would say they painted themselves into a corner- but I say that it made so that they HAD to move forward in a significant direction with this development. Either the kid had to die in the next film, which would change things up permanently (which is not a bad thing) so it's not the equivalent of a tv show were everything stayed the same- or else - there would have to be a revelation of sorts and choices would have to be made (my guess might be that perhaps they were considering killing off Richard White- and then ease into later on having Clark Kent marry Lois- as it was in the comics at that point anyways).

Maybe I'm just extremely tired of so many Superman comics over time just staying at 'the status quo' because its' a corporate product, that it was nice to see someone own it and try his/her own vision with it and try to give the Superman/Lois relationship a new level, even if it would end up being trickier to write for a sequel (s) later on.

On the negative side, though, Singer did stay more/less the 'status quo' on Lex Luthor unnecessarily.

[Metallo]

Jun 2, 2013 15:32:54 GMT -5 @bamabrad said:

Oh for Christ's sake, it's not like those versions of the character were the first ever attempts at the character being explored beyond his powers. Byrne's "Man of Steel" did the same thing nearly 20 years before "Superman Returns" or "Smallville."

I could argue that Wonder Woman is a violent, right-wing, war-mongering cunt, who attacks without thinking.

Yup. I mean Superman II did more to inspire this joke. He gives up his powers and first day out of his dads house he promptly gets his ass kicked.

[thecolorsblend]

I'm still trying to figure out how some idiot making that stupid picture can somehow be blamed on Smallville.