atp
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Post by atp on Jun 25, 2013 0:55:27 GMT -5
So, I keep hearing about how the villains in STM and S2 were "camp".
What exactly does this mean?
Try to define it, please.
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 25, 2013 0:59:03 GMT -5
An affectation or appreciation of manners and tastes commonly thought to be artificial, vulgar, or banal.
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Jun 25, 2013 1:06:14 GMT -5
Camp is a postmodern concept, playing up the goofier aspects of the material for irony and ridicule. In this particular case, it's the opposite of verisimilitude - "hur hur, look how goofy this comic book stuff is".
Whoever you're hearing it from is using it wrong. Using it to describe S3 is a little more accurate.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 25, 2013 7:38:42 GMT -5
The absurd highlighted and played absolutely straight. With camp the characters can't always be aware of this or play into it. STM isn't camp neither is II. its knowingly played for laughs. SIII comes closest but again most of the gags and the humor aren't played straight.
You laugh at camp because the characters take it all so seriously and are oblivious for the most part. For example... Adam Wests batcopter dropping a ladder with a huge sign that says BATLADDER on it. That's no big deal to the characters. Standard stuff. but the older I get I appreciate the humor even more.
Most people who say something campy don't know what the fuck it is most of the time. They see something light silly or comedic and think its synonymous with camp. It's like people who compare the West tv series to Schumacher's films and say they are the same. No they aren't. There are superficial similarities but they operate on totally different levels.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Jun 25, 2013 8:00:48 GMT -5
To my mind, an example is Ahnold and Bruce Willis at the end of Expendables 2 in the little car.
In the the UK it also means effeminate. As in this guy
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 25, 2013 8:04:21 GMT -5
There's a reason a lot of flamboyantly gay stuff crosses over into camp or kitsch. A lot of them understand the humor. That's why John Waters is an expert.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 8:06:12 GMT -5
I would define it as Zod in SII  |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 25, 2013 8:10:25 GMT -5
Lol. In all seriousness though no. Luthors often pointing out how odd they are. So are other characters in the film. Stamps Zod is full of arrogant puffed up superiority but its not camp. Stick him in the batman tv show. He doesn't fit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 8:21:03 GMT -5
Well as evidenced above people seem to have different interpretations of it. I just found some of the goofier elements of it slightly amusing, but I don't have any problem with it being over the top, it works in the film. Even if you want to take the gay meaning of camp he IS mincing around in some sort of 70's disco suit!
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 25, 2013 9:21:38 GMT -5
You'll see some crossover in different people's interpretations though. Goofy doesn't necessarily equal camp. If that were the case a lot of comedies would be camp. It's a very specific kind of humor. If any of the films lean towards camp it's III. and we definitely would have gotten something closer to the camp vein if Donner and Mank hadn't come on board. But even III isn't true camp. Its just silly. Closest to a campy Superman as I've ever seen is the David Wilson TV special based on the broadway show. A show written by Newman and Benton.
The 60s were a great breeding ground for camp because of new ideas cropping up and the counterculture. The 70s and 80s? Not so much. Might be one reason Flash Gordon bombed when it could have been a huge hit ten years before.
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Jun 25, 2013 9:32:12 GMT -5
In my mind, campy is material that's absurd, but knows that it's absurd. Is in on the joke. That separates 1960's batman from Batman and Robin.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 25, 2013 14:40:12 GMT -5
Laughing with it instead of laughing at it. The material is very aware of the absurd and plays into it but its played straight. But it's clear the people making it were not only making a very intentional joke but get it. In the West tv series Batman is oblivious to the fact that he's in foolish situations but the film makers aren't. It's part of the joke.
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Jun 25, 2013 14:57:08 GMT -5
There's a reason a lot of flamboyantly gay stuff crosses over into camp or kitsch. A lot of them understand the humor. That's why John Waters is an expert. The term comes from France's gay community - "se camper" (to play up). |
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