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Post by Ollie W on Dec 5, 2013 7:57:53 GMT -5
Can you say where you got it from? I can just dl it myself then I just downloaded from youtube using the program 'youtube to MP3'. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 5, 2013 11:39:48 GMT -5
Lois never dies in any of the scripts that I've read prior to the late revisions by Mank. The time reversal was done last minute and I believe it was initiated by Lester - he said that there was no emotional content in the Earthquake sequence hence Donner and Mank, and maybe even Ilya, adding that stuff in. Pierre Spengler says/said on one of the commentaries that originally that the motivation for turning back time was that the world was so devastated by the Criminals' attack around the world, that it was the only way to restore it. (Presumably bring back all the people from the dead that would have died under their attacks as well, presumably). I guess it works if you're ONLY going to do two Superman films ever and want to erase the stuff with Lois as well... but a more mature version would have just let Lois know and keep his identity after they wrung out all the areas for drama in the relationship. (Which maybe MOS felt it had) I do wonder how STM/SII would have played out, had they kept the 'cliffhanger' ending- then cut to a trailer right away. A friend who was reading up more about it before STM came out told me that the original intent was to release it at (or around) the same time in theatres so that you could go to one theatre and watch one, then walk over to the other theatre and watch SII.... though who knows if this was just hopeful thinking on the producers part, or just rumor- but it is interesting to think about how that experience would have been, as I don't think it's ever been done before in a fashion like that. (That is, having a part one and part two released at the same time in multiple theatres) Though I was never crazy about time reversal- I have to say.... without Lois' dying/ Superman going into the clouds and seeing both fathers- the last act does seem to be anticlimactic in STM. But then again, if it was a cliffhanger for a long time, I guess that was the point...  |
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Gandy
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Post by Gandy on Dec 5, 2013 16:24:27 GMT -5
Yep, sorry, it was in Mankiewicz's Superman 2 script, but I don't think the Newman's came up with that idea, it was Mank's. Unfortunately, it's not a great plot idea, but it just about works in STM. I guess it shows that they didn't have enough prep time to rewrite the scripts because if they did, they'd have done something different from the get go. They needed 6 months of prep and rewriting before commencing production at Pinewood.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 5, 2013 18:41:33 GMT -5
Yep, sorry, it was in Mankiewicz's Superman 2 script, but I don't think the Newman's came up with that idea, it was Mank's. Unfortunately, it's not a great plot idea, but it just about works in STM. I guess it shows that they didn't have enough prep time to rewrite the scripts because if they did, they'd have done something different from the get go. They needed 6 months of prep and rewriting before commencing production at Pinewood. To this day, with so many uncovered/released scripts on the net.... it's really sad/odd that we don't have Puzo's original drafts available to access or study to more clearly figure out who did what definitively. Sadly, as much as I enjoy so many of Donner's films, he's not immune to having horrible endings to his movies. He's openly said that all of his movies have happy endings, but a few too many times, they're also sappy endings that stretch the credibility of the story and/or characters. (Thinking of: Assassins, Conspiracy Theory, Radio Flyer, Lethal Weapon 4....) |
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Dec 5, 2013 22:54:04 GMT -5
The original Superman drafts and Batman Triumphant are the holy grails of vaulted superhero scripts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 1:14:32 GMT -5
Yep, sorry, it was in Mankiewicz's Superman 2 script, but I don't think the Newman's came up with that idea, it was Mank's. Unfortunately, it's not a great plot idea, but it just about works in STM. I guess it shows that they didn't have enough prep time to rewrite the scripts because if they did, they'd have done something different from the get go. They needed 6 months of prep and rewriting before commencing production at Pinewood. To this day, with so many uncovered/released scripts on the net.... it's really sad/odd that we don't have Puzo's original drafts available to access or study to more clearly figure out who did what definitively. Sadly, as much as I enjoy so many of Donner's films, he's not immune to having horrible endings to his movies. He's openly said that all of his movies have happy endings, but a few too many times, they're also sappy endings that stretch the credibility of the story and/or characters. (Thinking of: Assassins, Conspiracy Theory, Radio Flyer, Lethal Weapon 4....) Seriously, how the fuck did Riggs survive that many gunshot wounds to the chest in "Lethal Weapon 2"? Too happy of an ending, and I'm sure WB wanted an action/cop franchise to compete with Fox's "Die Hard" series. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 7, 2013 13:43:47 GMT -5
To this day, with so many uncovered/released scripts on the net.... it's really sad/odd that we don't have Puzo's original drafts available to access or study to more clearly figure out who did what definitively. Sadly, as much as I enjoy so many of Donner's films, he's not immune to having horrible endings to his movies. He's openly said that all of his movies have happy endings, but a few too many times, they're also sappy endings that stretch the credibility of the story and/or characters. (Thinking of: Assassins, Conspiracy Theory, Radio Flyer, Lethal Weapon 4....) Seriously, how the fuck did Riggs survive that many gunshot wounds to the chest in "Lethal Weapon 2"? Too happy of an ending, and I'm sure WB wanted an action/cop franchise to compete with Fox's "Die Hard" series. The original ending by Shane Black supposedly was Riggs' dying, and Murtaugh burying Riggs next to his wife- which sounds appropriate. I think it was Donner didn't want to let the characters go- but I would have loved it if he would have at least shot the original ending so that the story could have have had its proper ending on video as an alternate version. Riggs dying after getting his wife's killer makes more sense, epsecially how the series began. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 7, 2013 13:45:53 GMT -5
The original Superman drafts and Batman Triumphant are the holy grails of vaulted superhero scripts. Batman Triumphant? Can you share more about what this is/was? Never heard of it- was that the Miller/Daranofsky draft, or was it going to be Shumacher's next if Batman & Robin succeeded? |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Dec 7, 2013 13:49:09 GMT -5
...and how the series continued!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 7, 2013 14:12:37 GMT -5
...and how the series continued!  Yeah.... I didn't mind them doing more sequels- but the stories just got a little too ridiculous. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 7, 2013 14:23:08 GMT -5
The original Superman drafts and Batman Triumphant are the holy grails of vaulted superhero scripts. Batman Triumphant? Can you share more about what this is/was? Never heard of it- was that the Miller/Daranofsky draft, or was it going to be Shumacher's next if Batman & Robin succeeded? I'm pretty sure that was one title for a proposed fifth Batman movie with Scarecrow and Harley Quinn. I think it also had the Joker "returning" via fear gas hallucinations. At the time I remember Schumacher talking about that then changing to wanting to do his take on Year One. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 8, 2013 0:36:47 GMT -5
Batman Triumphant? Can you share more about what this is/was? Never heard of it- was that the Miller/Daranofsky draft, or was it going to be Shumacher's next if Batman & Robin succeeded? I'm pretty sure that was one title for a proposed fifth Batman movie with Scarecrow and Harley Quinn. I think it also had the Joker "returning" via fear gas hallucinations. At the time I remember Schumacher talking about that then changing to wanting to do his take on Year One. His "Year One" might have been interesting.... it's odd to think that Schumacher is responsible for the edgy non-pc "Falling Down" which- love or hate- was pretty fearless in having a point of view that actually didn't mind taking a side on very controversial topics for a studio film. It's also funny to think that back at the time the Batman movie series were the only superhero film franchise around--- with next to no competition. Interesting how Spiderman and X-men seemed to help turn the tide for superhero films NOT to become extinct again, after "Batman and Robin".... Though- I'm now wondering out loud when/if things have gone to the other direction and that there'll be a superhero movie 'bubble' that will implode if there's oversaturation of the market, but.... still..... too many superhero projects far better than too little, imo... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 8, 2013 10:43:18 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that was one title for a proposed fifth Batman movie with Scarecrow and Harley Quinn. I think it also had the Joker "returning" via fear gas hallucinations. At the time I remember Schumacher talking about that then changing to wanting to do his take on Year One. His "Year One" might have been interesting.... it's odd to think that Schumacher is responsible for the edgy non-pc "Falling Down" which- love or hate- was pretty fearless in having a point of view that actually didn't mind taking a side on very controversial topics for a studio film. It's also funny to think that back at the time the Batman movie series were the only superhero film franchise around--- with next to no competition. Interesting how Spiderman and X-men seemed to help turn the tide for superhero films NOT to become extinct again, after "Batman and Robin".... Though- I'm now wondering out loud when/if things have gone to the other direction and that there'll be a superhero movie 'bubble' that will implode if there's oversaturation of the market, but.... still..... too many superhero projects far better than too little, imo... Yeah to me Blade, X-Men, and Spider-Man were the first three steps (each bigger than the last) in turning around and relaunching superhero movies into that new era before iron man and Marvel studios and The Dark Knight raised the stakes yet again. Hollywood didn't really figure out how to make and promote these movies until just recently and even now they can fuck up big time. Even after Spider-man everybody was copying everybody else without figuring out how to adapt their formula for specific characters. We've come a long way from the 80s/90s Batman series. I think Schumacher had a good serious Batman movie in him. I think he just didn't see the material that way or take it as seriously and even worse he was following WB's marching orders. |
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Dec 8, 2013 11:20:44 GMT -5
Batman Triumphant? Can you share more about what this is/was? Never heard of it- was that the Miller/Daranofsky draft, or was it going to be Shumacher's next if Batman & Robin succeeded? I'm pretty sure that was one title for a proposed fifth Batman movie with Scarecrow and Harley Quinn. I think it also had the Joker "returning" via fear gas hallucinations. At the time I remember Schumacher talking about that then changing to wanting to do his take on Year One. Batman Triumphant was written by Mark Protosevich, he was hired in 1996 to script the 5th Batman film. It was obvious at the time that B&R was going in a very camp direction and I think everyone involved even at that mid-stage of production that following it up with a darker tone was the next move. The plans were dropped after B&R was a series killer, the plan was to have BT ready for a 1999 release. His script has never leaked, the only thing known for sure was that the Scarecrow was the Villain and The Joker would have a cameo. Jack Nicholson even mentioned this back in the late 90's, he was asked in an interview what was his favorite role to play he answered The Joker and that he was going to do it again. It's been rumored that Harley Quinn was also in the script, but that has never been confirmed. The internet seems convinced that she was supposed to have been The Joker's daughter in the storyline. This article is the only time I've ever heard anyone talk about the project directly, in it Schumaucher claims he wanted Nicolas Cage to be The Scarecrow. It probably wouldn't have happened that way, because at the time he was being considered and untimely hired for Superman. blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/nicolas_cage_was_sought_for_the_scarecrow_role_in_aborted_batman_sequel |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 9, 2013 2:57:20 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that was one title for a proposed fifth Batman movie with Scarecrow and Harley Quinn. I think it also had the Joker "returning" via fear gas hallucinations. At the time I remember Schumacher talking about that then changing to wanting to do his take on Year One. Batman Triumphant was written by Mark Protosevich, he was hired in 1996 to script the 5th Batman film. It was obvious at the time that B&R was going in a very camp direction and I think everyone involved even at that mid-stage of production that following it up with a darker tone was the next move. The plans were dropped after B&R was a series killer, the plan was to have BT ready for a 1999 release. His script has never leaked, the only thing known for sure was that the Scarecrow was the Villain and The Joker would have a cameo. Jack Nicholson even mentioned this back in the late 90's, he was asked in an interview what was his favorite role to play he answered The Joker and that he was going to do it again. It's been rumored that Harley Quinn was also in the script, but that has never been confirmed. The internet seems convinced that she was supposed to have been The Joker's daughter in the storyline. This article is the only time I've ever heard anyone talk about the project directly, in it Schumaucher claims he wanted Nicolas Cage to be The Scarecrow. It probably wouldn't have happened that way, because at the time he was being considered and untimely hired for Superman. blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/nicolas_cage_was_sought_for_the_scarecrow_role_in_aborted_batman_sequelProtosevich also wrote a draft of Thor that was supposed to be like "Lord of the Rings", I think- according to aintitcoolnews.com-- no schlocky sitcom humor like in the Thor movie that came out initially, nor Thor on earth- wonder if that scripts' around? In any case.... I'm SO thrilled that Akiva Goldsman seems to NOT be the 'go to' guy now for writing superhero films. |
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