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Post by dehbum on Feb 25, 2015 18:45:46 GMT -5
Hi
Long time member but not an big time poster,,,,,life gets busy so now a part time lurker.
But
What happened here and where is everybody?
Last I recall there was lots of "bellyaching" over man of steel
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 28, 2015 0:06:26 GMT -5
Hi Long time member but not an big time poster,,,,,life gets busy so now a part time lurker. But What happened here and where is everybody? Last I recall there was lots of "bellyaching" over man of steel From my point of view--- There was a lot of personal attacks that grew - and then (of course) counter-attacks- and then... POOF! People left for a Facebook page- and then that Facebook page (apparently) became a closed community. It's not the first forum to spiral into personal arguments and blow up, sure it won't be the last. In any case- it's become more 'the crazy asian man forum' at times.... and when the mood strikes, I'll still love to talk about the Donner & Singer films and every aspect of it.... it used to be a subject that was going to be free of personal conflicts, and now it mostly is on this (mostly) quiet forum now. But prefer quiet to unnecessary drama, truth to tell.... There's too much drama in real life imo...  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 1, 2015 15:22:58 GMT -5
Also, apparently, a lot of folks still check out the posts but usually say nada or login I assume for contacting people or who knows what. *shrug*
So, many are still 'here', but not 'here'. eh. lol
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Post by dehbum on Mar 2, 2015 20:03:51 GMT -5
Wow They are face booking now...LOL Now they can be more social now then when they were here This is where I came to see what is new in the superman universe and to see what they were all talking about (when not complaining) Such is life....I'll still drop in from time to time....hope the board can grow again,hate to see it go ....survived a lot of incarnations over the years |
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 3, 2015 3:04:34 GMT -5
I believe that what happened is this:
During the lead up to MoS, many people built up enormous expectations because of the trailers, which admittedly were very good.
I think everyone was expecting something magical and classic.
When the movie came out and was proven to be just another modern action/superhero movie, people were disappointed. Similar to The Phantom Menace.
Unfortunately, some people could not bring themselves to accept that they had been deceived by the trailers and tried to force everyone else to say the film was great. Instead of dealing with their emotions, they took out their (hidden) anger and frustration on members who criticised MoS.
(Like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes.)
They then started a campaign of bullying and personal attacks. It was their only way to avoid having to deal with their feelings and to admit they had been fooled.
When the people being bullied refused to bow down, the instigators set up a Facebook group and migrated there. There, they continue to reinforce each other's delusions that MoS was a great film.
That closed Facebook community serves as a kind of "therapy" for them, but I personally think it is harmful. They should be seeking professional counselling rather than engaging in codependent behaviour.
I hope they find some healing eventually.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 3, 2015 14:19:09 GMT -5
I believe that what happened is this: During the lead up to MoS, many people built up enormous expectations because of the trailers, which admittedly were very good. I think everyone was expecting something magical and classic. When the movie came out and was proven to be just another modern action/superhero movie, people were disappointed. Similar to The Phantom Menace. Unfortunately, some people could not bring themselves to accept that they had been deceived by the trailers and tried to force everyone else to say the film was great. Instead of dealing with their emotions, they took out their (hidden) anger and frustration on members who criticised MoS. (Like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes.) They then started a campaign of bullying and personal attacks. It was their only way to avoid having to deal with their feelings and to admit they had been fooled. When the people being bullied refused to bow down, the instigators set up a Facebook group and migrated there. There, they continue to reinforce each other's delusions that MoS was a great film. That closed Facebook community serves as a kind of "therapy" for them, but I personally think it is harmful. They should be seeking professional counselling rather than engaging in codependent behaviour. I hope they find some healing eventually. I have strong disagreements with close friends over movies all the time- but it never crosses into bullying or getting personal. I joined the forum primarily because of the love of the Donner films and a feeling that a topic like films would be 'safe' to be passionate about without that nonsense- but, I've learned since on different forums that it's just not quite the same communicating on the net- but then again, some folks act the same face to face, so, who knows? In any case- I'm glad I've met folks here who feel the same way - not necessarily about any of the films, but agree about what things in life are really worth fighting for (verbally and in type) and what's not worth being an arse about. Eh. |
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Post by stargazer0118 on Mar 7, 2015 12:09:02 GMT -5
Exaaaaactly, CAM (channeling Mav.  hey Mav, what's up? Miss ya.) Sadly, people weren't mature enough and resorted to all kinds of personal attacks. This place used to be FUN. Yeah I know I left too for a while, but I did it because it hurt to see so much SR and Routh bashing, but got over it and came back for some fun discussions about all kind of stuff. I think it really can be done, but it requires some maturity and a real sense of fun and respect for others opinions and tastes. Like you say, CAM, there is so much ugly out there in the real world and more important stuff in our real lives to take something like a freakin movie or TV show so seriously and personal. It shouldn't be like that. Let everyone enjoy whatever they like, or dislike too. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 8, 2015 22:17:27 GMT -5
Exaaaaactly, CAM (channeling Mav. hey Mav, what's up? Miss ya.) Sadly, people weren't mature enough and resorted to all kinds of personal attacks. This place used to be FUN. Yeah I know I left too for a while, but I did it because it hurt to see so much SR and Routh bashing, but got over it and came back for some fun discussions about all kind of stuff. I think it really can be done, but it requires some maturity and a real sense of fun and respect for others opinions and tastes. Like you say, CAM, there is so much ugly out there in the real world and more important stuff in our real lives to take something like a freakin movie or TV show so seriously and personal. It shouldn't be like that. Let everyone enjoy whatever they like, or dislike too. I agree. I suggested different branches of forums to avoid all the non-stop bullying that seemed to go on with both films, but it's really ridiculous. I stay on the forum mainly to stay in touch with the folks I've enjoyed interacting with in the past and want them to be able to reach me. (I presume that's the why/what on why the site is still visited but no posts- dunno) |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 9, 2015 15:16:11 GMT -5
Man of Steel did what every other version of Superman couldn't do. Split or killed the fanbase harder than ever. Despite being the much ballyhooed return to greatness. It was SR all over again in a lot of ways except the SR lovers didn't take it personal to the point where they became as venomous as the MOS lovers. Certain people couldn't take a dissenting opinion on MOS despite it always being that way around here with all the other versions of Superman. Just seems like some people were going to tune out criticisms at the expense of everything else and insulate themselves.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 9, 2015 18:17:19 GMT -5
Man of steel did what every other version of superman couldn't do. Split or killed the fanbase harder than ever. Despite being the much ballyhooed return to greatness. It was SR all over again in a lot of ways except the sr lovers didn't take it personal to the point were they became as venemous as the mos lovers. Certain people couldn't take a dissenting opinion on mos despite it always being that way around here with all the other versions of superman. Just seems like some people were going to tune out criticisms at the expense of everything else and insulate themselves. There was a chunk that seemed to post often- but when the MOS battles began, they seemed to fall out and not want to get in the crossfire (I know I fell out for a long time)--- but when the migration happened, I'm suprised that it's just me and a few others (yourself included) after it.... but I'm shaking my head at how ridiculous the whole thing is, now and then. But- it's not the first forum where I've seen something like this happen. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 9, 2015 21:46:11 GMT -5
I'll say this for SR. Some people said it ripped off the first two movies. At least it had the sense to rip off Superman’s own back catalogue instead of every other popular thing of the last decade. Man of Steel was Hollywoods idea of greatest hits by a sh!tty cover band. It showed that it was just action fluff with a cynical mean spirited backdrop for a story. Maybe that's why the handful of chaps who used to be here and didn't like others negative opinions loved it so much.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 10, 2015 23:47:53 GMT -5
I'll say this for SR. some people said it ripped off the first two movies. At least it had the sense to rip off Supermans on back catalogue instead of every other popular thing of the last decade. Man of Steel was Hollywoods idea of greatest hits by a shitty cover band. It showed that it was just action fluff with a cynical mean spirited backdrop for a story. Maybe that's why the handful of assholes who used to be here and didn't like others negative opinions loved it so much. To me, the AMBITION of Singer to serve two masters on SR- continue all that was good about Donner's interpretation (Or mostly) AND move it forward deserved way, way, way more respect I thought than it got. To me, it was ALWAYS easy to do a reboot from the ground up. Man of Steel has some great scenes in it, (and I think I've argued a fan cut could possibly make it amazing)- but ultimately- much like Watchmen- it made me not really care nor like the main characters. I was excited for it in seeing the trailer- not so once the film started. There are some great bits in it, but in the end, it just made me embrace the heart and charm of the previous versions more. A good comparison might be the underwhelming Spiderman reboot- but even there, I felt like the Peter Parker/Gwen Stacey coupling was so charming, it helped one bear the other parts. Oh well. I still am hoping the sequels are better--- but STM, SII, SR are classics. MOS at best imo is a well-intentioned but misfired fan film. |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 11, 2015 12:23:59 GMT -5
Snyder's a great visualist when he's not overusing his bag of tricks like speed ramping and filters but he doesn't get things like story, drama, emotion, symbolism...etc. He's anything but subtle. Him talking about the costumes in the Watchmen movie proved to me he doesn't get it. Him going to Japan and talking about the symbolism of death and myths showed he REALLY doesn't get it.
ATP, I think it was a case much like SR where SOME people tried hard to convince themselves that the movie was good no matter what. We've all done it. Except another disappointing Superman movie would hurt even more. That and the action. It was a Superman movie with action so fuck everyone who didn't like it. I was excited after those trailers too and went in hopeful but it just didn't grab me. I didn't care about changes but the movie just wasn't well thought out IMO. It was trying too hard to be like The Dark Knight and overcompensate for SR's failings instead of being its own well made film. DC's been reactionary for far too long. Its like the Bond films over the last 40 years (following trends instead of setting them) except the Bond films have done it well.
CAM, I think the Peter/Gwen relationship in these movies succeeded where the Clark/Lois relationship on MOS went off like a damp squib. When you look at the TAS-M films as the story of Peter and Gwen's love story and NOT as the rise of the Sinister Six or The mystery of Peter Parkers parents it works. When I look at it like that its not as much as of a disappointment. I don't think the second one is awful but its thoroughly mediocre. In some ways I think it fixes what the first film in the reboot series got wrong. Garfield came into his own as Peter Parker and this is the film where he MAY have passed Maguire. The great parts just don't overcome the failings and its sad that Garfield won't get another chance to build on what he's done. As an ACTOR he wasn't the problem with these movies. I gotta point the finger at Sony and Arad way way more.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2015 0:23:48 GMT -5
Snyder's a great visualist when he's not overusing his bag of tricks like speed ramping and filters but he doesn't get things like story, drama, emotion, symbolism...etc. He's anything but subtle. Him talking about the costumes in the Watchmen movie proved to me he doesn't get it. Him going to Japan and talking about the symbolism of death and myths showed he REALLY doesn't get it. ATP, I think it was a case much like SR where SOME people tried hard to convince themselves that the movie was good no matter what. We've all done it. Except another disappointing Superman movie would hurt even more. That and the action. It was a Superman movie with action so fuck everyone who didn't like it. I was excited after those trailers too and went in hopeful but it just didn't grab me. I didn't care about changes but the movie just wasn't well thought out IMO. It was trying too hard to be like The Dark Knight and overcompensate for SR's failings instead of being its own well made film. DC's been reactionary for far too long. Its like the Bond films over the last 40 years (following trends instead of setting them) except the Bond films have done it well. CAM, I think the Peter/Gwen relationship in these movies succeeded where the Clark/Lois relationship on MOS went off like a damp squib. When you look at the TAS-M films as the story of Peter and Gwen's love story and NOT as the rise of the Sinister Six or The mystery of Peter Parkers parents it works. When I look at it like that its not as much as of a disappointment. I don't think the second one is awful but its thoroughly mediocre. In some ways I think it fixes what the first film in the reboot series got wrong. Garfield came into his own as Peter Parker and this is the film where he MAY have passed Maguire. The great parts just don't overcome the failings and its sad that Garfield won't get another chance to build on what he's done. As an ACTOR he wasn't the problem with these movies. I gotta point the finger at Sony and Arad way way more. I agree with you on the Garfield Spiderman films. Just as I wish they would have kept Routh for MOS (and it would have helped by association to SR tremendously), I wish they would have kept Garfield for Spiderman. Oh well... |
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atp
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Post by atp on Mar 12, 2015 9:21:49 GMT -5
Snyder's a great visualist when he's not overusing his bag of tricks like speed ramping and filters but he doesn't get things like story, drama, emotion, symbolism...etc. He's anything but subtle. Him talking about the costumes in the Watchmen movie proved to me he doesn't get it. Him going to Japan and talking about the symbolism of death and myths showed he REALLY doesn't get it. ATP, I think it was a case much like SR where SOME people tried hard to convince themselves that the movie was good no matter what. We've all done it. Except another disappointing Superman movie would hurt even more. That and the action. It was a Superman movie with action so fuck everyone who didn't like it. I was excited after those trailers too and went in hopeful but it just didn't grab me. I didn't care about changes but the movie just wasn't well thought out IMO. It was trying too hard to be like The Dark Knight and overcompensate for SR's failings instead of being its own well made film. DC's been reactionary for far too long. Its like the Bond films over the last 40 years (following trends instead of setting them) except the Bond films have done it well. CAM, I think the Peter/Gwen relationship in these movies succeeded where the Clark/Lois relationship on MOS went off like a damp squib. When you look at the TAS-M films as the story of Peter and Gwen's love story and NOT as the rise of the Sinister Six or The mystery of Peter Parkers parents it works. When I look at it like that its not as much as of a disappointment. I don't think the second one is awful but its thoroughly mediocre. In some ways I think it fixes what the first film in the reboot series got wrong. Garfield came into his own as Peter Parker and this is the film where he MAY have passed Maguire. The great parts just don't overcome the failings and its sad that Garfield won't get another chance to build on what he's done. As an ACTOR he wasn't the problem with these movies. I gotta point the finger at Sony and Arad way way more. I have to confess that I initially tried to convince myself MoS was great! I was so invested because the early trailers really impressed me. It took a few viewings before I had to admit to myself that it was a disappointment. I tried watching on BluRay recently, and it is actually now unwatchable. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 12, 2015 18:09:22 GMT -5
Snyder's a great visualist when he's not overusing his bag of tricks like speed ramping and filters but he doesn't get things like story, drama, emotion, symbolism...etc. He's anything but subtle. Him talking about the costumes in the Watchmen movie proved to me he doesn't get it. Him going to Japan and talking about the symbolism of death and myths showed he REALLY doesn't get it. ATP, I think it was a case much like SR where SOME people tried hard to convince themselves that the movie was good no matter what. We've all done it. Except another disappointing Superman movie would hurt even more. That and the action. It was a Superman movie with action so fuck everyone who didn't like it. I was excited after those trailers too and went in hopeful but it just didn't grab me. I didn't care about changes but the movie just wasn't well thought out IMO. It was trying too hard to be like The Dark Knight and overcompensate for SR's failings instead of being its own well made film. DC's been reactionary for far too long. Its like the Bond films over the last 40 years (following trends instead of setting them) except the Bond films have done it well. CAM, I think the Peter/Gwen relationship in these movies succeeded where the Clark/Lois relationship on MOS went off like a damp squib. When you look at the TAS-M films as the story of Peter and Gwen's love story and NOT as the rise of the Sinister Six or The mystery of Peter Parkers parents it works. When I look at it like that its not as much as of a disappointment. I don't think the second one is awful but its thoroughly mediocre. In some ways I think it fixes what the first film in the reboot series got wrong. Garfield came into his own as Peter Parker and this is the film where he MAY have passed Maguire. The great parts just don't overcome the failings and its sad that Garfield won't get another chance to build on what he's done. As an ACTOR he wasn't the problem with these movies. I gotta point the finger at Sony and Arad way way more. I have to confess that I initially tried to convince myself MoS was great! I was so invested because the early trailers really impressed me. It took a few viewings before I had to admit to myself that it was a disappointment. I tried watching on BluRay recently, and it is actually now unwatchable. Interesting- my views pretty much stayed the same, I think. There are brilliant bits if you sit through some of the really bad choices and scenes. Don't know if editing would save the performances or not. Maybe. |
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Post by Metallo on Apr 3, 2015 13:24:33 GMT -5
All the church scene in MOS was lacking was some voiceover saying "He's Jesus, dummies."
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Post by crown on Apr 3, 2015 23:14:00 GMT -5
Yeah but SR actually had a Passion scene with Superman getting physically tortured before falling to Earth in a crucifix pose before "rising" from his tomb in the hospital.
The writers of MOS said that the biggest mistake in SR was making Superman a lamb when he should be a lion. They went a bit too far (even much too far) in MOS but it's still better than SR.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 4, 2015 1:16:28 GMT -5
I know that Thomas Tull said that the theme of SR II was going to be Superman as an 'angry God'--- whether that genuinely meant that SR II was going to have his son killed off or not, as the questionable 'leaked' treatment said- who knows?
He definitely would have been a lion there- but sadly we'll never know.
From the radio interview with Michael Dougherty, Dougherty shed a lot of light on his X3 script (some of which I suspect might be repurposed for the new X-men film, as Dougherty and his writing partner are mentioned as writers)- but mentioned that the SR II script hadn't gotten off the ground yet.
Still--- whatever Singer and company had in mind, I certainly wish by this point, Singer would share it in an interview somehow.
The Logan's Run script Singer was going to do was REALLY dark- but I still have a hard time believing that Singer would have killed off Jason in a sequel to Superman. Singer has been able to be 'dark' in Xmen 1, 2, FirstClass (for story), and Days of Future Past while still staying in the PG-13 range.
I think he would have found the right middle ground- though it looks like a good number of fans didn't agree for SR.
The thing I think that bothers me with both Goyer and Snyder is the feeling that they did a perfect job with MOS--- I don't mind if a director flubs so much if they see that they made mistakes and try to improve upon it (Raimi said he made a lot of mistakes on the first Spiderman, and Spidey 2 was much better. Spidey 3 is a whole other story).... but if they see that it wasn't perfect, it's a start and gives hope for a sequel.
As is.....I think it'll be like a ginormous buffet. There's going to be so much thrown into it, there's going to be SOMETHING to enjoy, even if only as large budget cosplay on film. (Which is a great way to look at Watchmen, actually).
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Post by mavcon75 on May 8, 2015 0:09:37 GMT -5
Exaaaaactly, CAM (channeling Mav. hey Mav, what's up? Miss ya.) Sadly, people weren't mature enough and resorted to all kinds of personal attacks. This place used to be FUN. Yeah I know I left too for a while, but I did it because it hurt to see so much SR and Routh bashing, but got over it and came back for some fun discussions about all kind of stuff. I think it really can be done, but it requires some maturity and a real sense of fun and respect for others opinions and tastes. Like you say, CAM, there is so much ugly out there in the real world and more important stuff in our real lives to take something like a freakin movie or TV show so seriously and personal. It shouldn't be like that. Let everyone enjoy whatever they like, or dislike too. I agree. I suggested different branches of forums to avoid all the non-stop bullying that seemed to go on with both films, but it's really ridiculous. I stay on the forum mainly to stay in touch with the folks I've enjoyed interacting with in the past and want them to be able to reach me. (I presume that's the why/what on why the site is still visited but no posts- dunno) Hey guys, I actually stayed away from here for a while after MoS but it also started back a few years ago when some people here were flaming the model maker Mike Hill when he was asking for feedback for his Chris Reeve work when he made the lifesize figures. They were reacting based on bad photos and I actually met up with the man in Los Angeles for the Hero Complex festival and took more pictures to try and backup the fact he is an amazing artist. Then the MoS stuff started up and people were pissed at the level of violence and....I hate saying it but it seemed that unless the movie had a complete CGI Chris Reeve portraying Superman, directed by Donner, and scripted by Mank with a Williams score, it just wasn't gonna please people. I know this is a Cinema board started to celebrate the original movies but blasting new ones just didn't sit well with me unfortunately. Mavcon |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 8, 2015 1:19:29 GMT -5
I agree. I suggested different branches of forums to avoid all the non-stop bullying that seemed to go on with both films, but it's really ridiculous. I stay on the forum mainly to stay in touch with the folks I've enjoyed interacting with in the past and want them to be able to reach me. (I presume that's the why/what on why the site is still visited but no posts- dunno) Hey guys, I actually stayed away from here for a while after MoS but it also started back a few years ago when some people here were flaming the model maker Mike Hill when he was asking for feedback for his Chris Reeve work when he made the lifesize figures. They were reacting based on bad photos and I actually met up with the man in Los Angeles for the Hero Complex festival and took more pictures to try and backup the fact he is an amazing artist. Then the MoS stuff started up and people were pissed at the level of violence and....I hate saying it but it seemed that unless the movie had a complete CGI Chris Reeve portraying Superman, directed by Donner, and scripted by Mank with a Williams score, it just wasn't gonna please people. I know this is a Cinema board started to celebrate the original movies but blasting new ones just didn't sit well with me unfortunately. Mavcon I think Jim Bowers was also blasted for no real reason, too. I enjoyed a chunk of MOS, but there were too many bad story and directing choices to embrace it without reservation. I thought Cavill was good enough, didn't have an issue with that. I can go over the list of things I didn't like, and I know you didn't point me out specifically, but for my two cents, it's an oversimplification to say that I wouldnt' have been satisfied unless it had CGI Reeve, directed by Donner, etc. etc. - I really thought the movie worked in parts, but the same issues I had with Snyder's other films carried over here. I loved the trailer and hoped it would have been written and directed as well as TDK- even if it had to be dark. Personally, it's all a moot point now anyways- as there are- what.... 3-5 people left? I've always said that there should be perhaps a division of threads for those who love MOS, who love SR, and who love the originals. I was going to ask to apply to be a moderator myself, but life is so hectic, aside from a few friends I'd love to keep in contact with, on odd days, it's easy to stay and easy to leave this place for good with all the bad ill this place has generated during the MOS battles when it got personal. Right now, it seems like mostly Donner fans are here- and maybe most have migrated to FB- but.... again, it's really a graveyard here. At least it's somewhat peaceful. I disagree with tons of movies with one of my best friends, but it never gets personal. I think once it crossed over into personal on this board, all heck broke loose. Anyhow- doesn't matter anymore. |
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Post by atp on Jul 23, 2022 12:10:56 GMT -5
The bullies happened
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Post by Metallo on Jul 23, 2022 12:30:05 GMT -5
I agree. I suggested different branches of forums to avoid all the non-stop bullying that seemed to go on with both films, but it's really ridiculous. I stay on the forum mainly to stay in touch with the folks I've enjoyed interacting with in the past and want them to be able to reach me. (I presume that's the why/what on why the site is still visited but no posts- dunno) Hey guys, I actually stayed away from here for a while after MoS but it also started back a few years ago when some people here were flaming the model maker Mike Hill when he was asking for feedback for his Chris Reeve work when he made the lifesize figures. They were reacting based on bad photos and I actually met up with the man in Los Angeles for the Hero Complex festival and took more pictures to try and backup the fact he is an amazing artist. Then the MoS stuff started up and people were pissed at the level of violence and....I hate saying it but it seemed that unless the movie had a complete CGI Chris Reeve portraying Superman, directed by Donner, and scripted by Mank with a Williams score, it just wasn't gonna please people. I know this is a Cinema board started to celebrate the original movies but blasting new ones just didn't sit well with me unfortunately. Mavcon The new films got blasted because they weren’t very good not because they weren’t the Christopher Reeve films. Time has proven that right because Warner Bros DC efforts are all over the place with tons of problems. |
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hey Mav, what's up? Miss ya.)
