crown
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Post by crown on May 28, 2015 3:17:10 GMT -5
Jonathan Kent or Jor-El?
In SII Superman quickly corrects himself by saying that Kent was his "earth father I mean" probably because he's at the fortress and Jor-EL could hear him and he didn't want to hurt Jor's feelings.
But at the end of STM I couldn't help but feel that by turning the world back Superman was forsaking Jor-El and turning to Jonathan as his "true father."
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Post by magicjim on May 28, 2015 8:40:14 GMT -5
When he corrects himself in the fortress, I never took it to mean that he knew JOr-El could hear him. It always struck me as though he was trying to be as clear as possible to Lois when his was explaining his background.
Joe-El was his father. Jonathan was his Dad.
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Post by EnriqueH on May 28, 2015 17:43:27 GMT -5
They both were in their own way.
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crown
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Post by crown on May 28, 2015 19:25:54 GMT -5
They both were in their own way. Someone points a kryptonite gun at Superman's head and forces him choose between Jonathan and Jor-El who does he pick?
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Post by EnriqueH on May 28, 2015 20:11:48 GMT -5
I would think he would have to flip a coin.
If you think about it, Jor-El and Jonathan represent equally idealistic qualities.
Jor-El taught Superman about his heritage, his values, his legacy, and himself. I would say from Jor-El he learned pride, selflessness, the greater good, individual uniqueness.
Jonathan taught him about humanity, how to love and to find his destiny and sense of purpose. In short, he taught him to be "human".
Both were equally fatherly in their own way and sought to help Kal-El grow into the man he is. I would say the main difference is cultural: Jor-El was caring in a more Vulcanly, emotionally distant way and Jonathan was warmer and more expressive.
It was kinda like Sarek and Amanda for Spock (though Spock didn't get along with Sarek, it's pretty clear they loved each other).
Both were instrumental in making Clark who he is.
I might have to side with Jonathan from a chronological point of view, he laid the groundwork for Jor-El to continue teaching Kal-El. (Though I suppose a pro-Jor-El person could argue that Jor El put him in the rocket ship and that Jonathan wouldn't have a Clark to raise if it hadn't been for his sending Kal El away, but I digress.) Jor-El then took Clark and refined him. By the time, Jonathan and Jor El were done, Kal-El was now SuperMAN.
So I guess that would be my rationalization for Jonathan, but I could equally accept Jor-El.
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crown
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Post by crown on May 28, 2015 20:30:49 GMT -5
I'd love to see Jor-El and Jonathan sit down and hash out their differing views on parenthood and on Clark's life choices. It might culminate in Jor-El screaming "Where did you raise my boy... ON A FARM!?!?!?!?!??!?!
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Post by EnriqueH on May 28, 2015 20:39:00 GMT -5
Actually, I would think Jor-El would APPROVE a farm in the middle of nowhere.
Think about it:
Didn't the green crystal led Clark to the middle of nowhere (the North Pole!) to build the Fortress of Solitude?
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crown
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Post by crown on May 28, 2015 20:43:27 GMT -5
"But why the American Mid-West Jor-EL? They're primitives, hundreds of years behind urban coastal elites!"
"He'll need that advantage... to survive."
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 30, 2015 16:20:28 GMT -5
I know it wasn't in the original drafts of STM, but I always loved the bit in the clouds, where Supes is in distress over Lois' death and thinks about what both fathers had told him as life lessons. Gave the movie the real sense of weight, and I loved that it called back to the earlier scenes and relationships with both fathers..... though the ultimate decision to turn back time with no real consequence undid that to a degree.
I wonder if they kept the cliffhanger ending, if it would have implied that (on some level) the time reversal released the criminals, or if audiences might have felt that.
If so, I think it might have made the time reversal easier to digest in theatres. As it was, the times I saw it, it drew a 'wtf?" response rather than cheers.
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zuperman
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Post by zuperman on May 31, 2015 1:16:29 GMT -5
Alexander Salkind.
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crown
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Post by crown on May 31, 2015 3:20:11 GMT -5
Wrong again old timer... guess again!
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Post by zuperman on Jun 1, 2015 1:45:02 GMT -5
There can technically only be one winner in a game of Monopoly, but I think everyone wins when we take the time to enjoy a board game with friends and family.
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 1, 2015 4:45:37 GMT -5
Ah.. more from cranky old-man Kris.
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Post by zuperman on Jun 2, 2015 23:57:24 GMT -5
Good hygiene is good for you, and it's good for the people around you. First impressions matter.
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 3, 2015 2:37:34 GMT -5
Kris, have you been smuggling viagra into the old folks home? You're too old to safely use it.
Anyway are you still feeling depressed? I know you kept striking out at the YMCA and were engaged in self loathing... but you found the strength to keep on going and never give up!
"I've been depressed over the past couple of years but as far as i can remember I hardly mentioned it on here. What good does self loathing do? None as far as im concerned. lots of people deal with this stuff, you just need to help yourself and keep going." -Old man Kris.
Btw, klown is spelled with a C not a K. Your name too should be Chris... with a C. "Kris" was more of a GIRL'S name way back when you were born.... short for Kristina lol.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 4, 2015 21:28:06 GMT -5
Technically, I suppose Siegel and Shuster were the real dads....
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zuperman
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Post by zuperman on Jun 6, 2015 18:19:34 GMT -5
I feel that generosity is an underrated virtue.
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 7, 2015 2:02:07 GMT -5
Kris... how often do you have to wear a kilt?
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Post by zuperman on Jun 8, 2015 2:03:51 GMT -5
My favorite ice cream flavor is mint chocolate chip.
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Post by Metallo on Jun 16, 2015 20:39:32 GMT -5
I think Enrique got it. In this version I think he looks at both as his true father. Jonathan Kent raised him but Jor El showed him his true origins and his full purpose. In every way you look at it he wouldn't be who he is if he just had one. They both taught him something or gave him something.
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