Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Nov 5, 2015 16:37:00 GMT -5
Goyer developed and pitched MOS to WB and now he's saying he'd rather do his own films plus no mention of him by Roven? Sounds like he's the one who had to fall on his sword. Especially after that whole She Hulk debacle. They also aren't sticking so tight to Goyers realistic world rules. WB had to know characters like WW Shazam and Aquaman would be held back by that.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 12, 2015 14:25:08 GMT -5
Goyer developed and pitched MOS to WB and now he's saying he'd rather do his own films plus no mention of him by Roven? Sounds like he's the one who had to fall on his sword. Especially after that whole She Hulk debacle. They also aren't sticking so tight to Goyers realistic world rules. WB had to know characters like WW Shazam and Aquaman would be held back by that. Wasn't it Snyder that okayed the "Superman killing Zod" in the first place, though? Didn't hear about the She Hulk stuff... details? Goyer I will always be grateful for: 1. Batman Begins and the Dark Knight 2. Blade 1 3. Bringing Geoff Johns to comics with the JSA He does seem to have some recent ideas whenever I see a movie with his credits.... but he seems to need a counterbalance. I can't say there's anything Goyer has done that is as bad as Berlanti's Green Lantern.... so if he is gone from WB/DC, I have mixed feelings on that...
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,848
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Post by Metallo on Nov 13, 2015 11:46:13 GMT -5
Watch Ghost Rider 2 if you want to see something worse. Goyers an ideas man not a writer. Wasn't he involved with Constantine? That tanked too so it took some more of his shine off. He rode the Nolan gravy train trying to mimmic Nolan's style but then he couldn't deliver.
With She Hulk Goyer basically belittled the character saying she was a sex fantasy or something then put down anyone that was a fan. Then that whole train of thought extended to Martian Manhunter and he joked that no one had ever heard of him so he wasn't worth doing a movie on. Then he made fun of the fans who did know who he was. And when I say fans I don't just mean people he never met but he was in front of an audience. When you're trying to build up your product you don't belittle the core grassroots fanbase. Sure they are only one percent of the general movie going audience but when WB already has bad buzz around its comic book films adding to it isn't a good idea. The buzz on Green Lantern got worse and worse before the film even came out and there was no way to turn it around. No need to create snowball effect.
MOS LOOKED good to more people even when the story was flawed so in WBs mind Goyer had to be the first person to point the finger at. Yeah Snyder signed off on the neck snap. He and Goyer pretty much agreed on it from the start. Nolan was the one who was hesitant and needed convincing. Killing wasn't the problem IMO. It was the way Snyder and Goyer executed it from the scripting stage forward.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 13, 2015 12:07:54 GMT -5
Watch Ghost Rider 2 if you want to see something worse. Goyers an ideas man not a writer. Wasn't he involved with Constantine? That tanked too so it took some more of his shine off. He rode the Nolan gravy train trying to mimmic Nolan's style but then he couldn't deliver. With She Hulk Goyer basically belittled the character saying she was a sex fantasy or something then put down anyone that was a fan. Then that whole train of thought extended to Martian Manhunter and he joked that no one had ever heard of him so he wasn't worth doing a movie on. Then he made fun of the fans who did know who he was. And when I say fans I don't just mean people he never met but he was in front of an audience. When you're trying to build up your product you don't belittle the core grassroots fanbase. Sure they are only one percent of the general movie going audience but when WB already has bad buzz around its comic book films adding to it isn't a good idea. The buzz on Green Lantern got worse and worse before the film even came out and there was no way to turn it around. No need to create snowball effect. MOS LOOKED good to more people even when the story was flawed so in WBs mind Goyer had to be the first person to point the finger at. Yeah Snyder signed off on the neck snap. He and Goyer pretty much agreed on it from the start. Nolan was the one who was hesitant and needed convincing. Killing wasn't the problem IMO. It was the way Snyder and Goyer executed it from the scripting stage forward. I did read the original Blade script by Goyer- actually pretty good, pity they didn't use the original ending (he has to kill his mother the vampire, but it's done in a way that's more moving than the video-gamey ending they finished on). I wouldn't go as harsh as to say Goyer's not a writer- but he definitely leaves me head scratching. After watching all of his "Blade" tv series, there are some good parts to it, and I do find sprinkles of things that I think are good on stuff he does... but I always feel like he needs a good co-writer to balance him out. I'm not suprised that Goyer spoke off the cuff and ruined his own gig. Not smart. You're right- it's not the necksnap that killed MOS, but the execution - which I put more on the director, for making a number of poor choices throughout. Even with my disapproval of Batfleck and parts of MOS, I still want the other DC movies to be good.... but it seems like WB tv is doing a better job than WB movies so far...
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,848
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Post by Metallo on Nov 13, 2015 12:33:41 GMT -5
Like many superhero and comic book films Blade falls down in that third act. The blood God plot goes against everything the film had been trying to set up about vampires. It should have done what Thor did with gods and explained it better. He writes some really hokey dialogue. Nolan's batman films are great but some of the dialogue is atrocious. Same thing happened with man of steel. Who talks like that? "You're a monster Zod and I'm going to stop you!" Even Reeve didn't deliver anything that hokey during the battle in Superman II.
Blade the series was hurt from the start with the take he had on it. An outsider was the focus so we could be let in to explore the vampires world. It's a tired old excuse of a storytelling gimmick that I feel writers use too much. Sometimes it is needed but sometimes it's not. Just seems like a lazy way to have exposition. Blade wasn't enough of a focus at first. That changed but by then it was too late. The way the original film used Karen to take us into Blade's world worked in the first film because it was all new and we also got to know Blade himself. Snipes brought him to life. By the time the series rolled around the vampire world of these stories wasn't a totally unknown thing anymore and Kirk Jones was no Snipes.
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